deficiency?

background: bagseed, unknown origin, of relatively low quality

5-6 weeks in.

outdoors.

fertile soil from the plant shop. there was a time when I gave them a bit of bloom nutes, but I stopped a couple of weeks ago and the phenomenon goes on.

problems: many leaves yellowing, with necrosis and becoming dirt. small fan leaves. see in pic.

i know the phenomenon of yellowing in flowering is normal, but this one started doing it really soon in flowering. and it's pretty bad, it looks like it's more yellow then green (especially when looking from below...)

if its bagseed and of low quality why try it?
What kind of soil are you using? (say MG and thats your problem)

jesus of Cannabis said:

if its bagseed and of low quality why try it?
What kind of soil are you using? (say MG and thats your problem)

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well, it's what i have to work with.

you think it's over ferting then?
it's not MG, it's plant-shop soil that fertile but with no time release ferts.

Check your Ph and make sure the soil is drying well between waterings.

Mother's Finest said:

Check your Ph and make sure the soil is drying well between waterings.

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well the ph was very high, almost 8 maybe more, but i got to 7 now, which should be good - but the dying of leaves continues and even more rapidly
and yes the water does dry thoroughly every time, sometimes to the point of wilting

At 5-6 weeks in, they're fine. I'd suggest adding a little veg fert, but, being that they are in full-flower, I wouldn't want to risk burning them, or having a bit too much N.


Also, leaving them go to the point of withing, isn't good, especially during flowering. Every time I've done it, I've had a die-off of fan leaves, similar to your's. That may be your only problem, actually.

Some substrates require a lower Ph. I don't know about the stuff you're using but you might try moving it further down, closer to 6.

Mother's Finest said:

Some substrates require a lower Ph. I don't know about the stuff you're using but you might try moving it further down, closer to 6.

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yes. i water with 5 ph to further reduce it. takes time though.

asaph said:

yes. i water with 5 ph to further reduce it. takes time though.

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First,...don't water with your PH that low, or you'll run in to more problems. Keep it in the low 6's. If the problem is indeed an N deficiency, and not the result of you letting them droop, then you could give them a mild dose of ver fert. MG will work fine, but don't go more than 1/4 strength(inside dose, not the outside dose). 1/4 strength MG, is stronger than alot of cannabis-specific ferts, mixed at fill strength. That's why it last two weeks. We just feed our babies lesser amounts, more often, and avoid fertburn. MG is no more harmful than any other fert, so, don't let people BS you. If they've burned their plants, they mixed it too strong. Simple as that. Okay, back on track,lol......

....my question is..... How many weeks are left? It looks like you have at least 4 weeks left, probably more. So, I'd recommend giving it some veg fert, but not a full dose. 1/2 strength, will do fine. Then, wait a week, and watch your plant. The yellowing should slow, or stop, and that'll let you know you were successful. That'll also tell you if you need more nitrogen. If the upper leaf tips start turning brown, and leaves start darkening,(dark green) you're borderline overfert. You'd be wise to error on the low side, than the high side. Overfert, at this point, could be a disaster,(leafy, airy buds) whereas, being N deficient a little early, isn't quite as destructive. If you're satisfied with the results, stick with your bloom fert, til they're finished.

Seriously though, it looks pretty good, and you will easily have a nice harvest. Just give it a little N, and you'll be good to go.

jawbrodt said:

First,...don't water ... Just give it a little N, and you'll be good to go.

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first i wanna say thank you, and that i appreciate your generous and professional answers.

2. there was a time when i was ferts, for a couple of waterings, a couple of times grow fert, and a couple more times with bloom fert. i also gave it K juice, a couple of times, then stopped altogether, i'm not sure why, but maybe because i thought i saw over-ferting symptoms. this was maybe 3 weeks ago. i can't really tell if any of that helped, but i may have not been consistent enough about it to tell. so maybe i should try again.

what do you think about foliar feeding with grow fert? I tried it once, but didn't repeat. maybe i should? try it for a couple of times? the way i see it, it may help these poor yellow leaves, and also lower the risk of over-ferting in the roots? or am i getting this wrong.

if not foliar, then what i thought of doing was maybe flush it in the next watering, just to be a bit safer in over-ferting issues, and then try very low quantities of grow fert as you recommend. sounds like a good idea?

your time estimation sounds pretty right, i'd say probably 4-5 weeks more. that's not a lot of time before i have to stop feeding anyways, right? so maybe just ignore this problem which as you said is not so bad, and wait for a joyful harvest. as you said and is well known, less is more. i also have this bioheaven product, which is very low on NPK but according to the hydro shop master is supposed to make the plant take more of what's available in the soil. maybe i should start using that regularly and see if it helps.

btw, this plant does have some leaf points turning brown. i put another picture so you can have a closer look.

^Ya know, I was going to suggest foliar feeding, but, I thought you'd tell me that you wouldn't do it, out of fear of it effecting the taste. I'm a big foliar fan, especially after reading up on it, recently. I've been pushing it on people, actually, and am trying to get that under control.lol As you may/may not know, it's approx. 8-10 more efficient than root-feeding, whith no risk of overfert. The plant will only take ion what it is lacking, and nothing more. A very desirable quality. Anyways,.... I want to back up your idea of trying foliar feeding. If the plant isn't lacking anything, it won't take it in. If it does, it will. Zero risk. The main thing I wanted to mention about it, is that you don't want to use it much more than a week, or it might start effecting taste. Right where you're at now, is about the point where you want to drop the foliar, and finish up, by root-feeding. Another week won't hurt a thing, especially if your using it to correct a deficiency, rather than general maintenance. Just make sure you hit it a couple times, afterwards, with fresh water. That'll clean it up nice.

Also, I thought your tops looked sorta dark, with slight curl. I couldn't see the tips, which is why I mentioned it. I needed to know that you were aware, and am glad to find that you are. Since the tips are burnt, as well, I'd hold off on the veg fert, and go with foliar, if anything. N overdose, is too risky, at this point.

Honestly, I think your problem is a combo of allowing them to dry to the drooping stage, and, ol' Mother Nature, telling the plant she's nearing her end. I'd just monitor your watering/feeding a little closer, and continue. I also suggest adding the foliar for 3-5 days, as a precaution. You should end up with a really nice harvest.

if not foliar, then what i thought of doing was maybe flush it in the next watering, just to be a bit safer in over-ferting issues, and then try very low quantities of grow fert as you recommend. sounds like a good idea?

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A flushing is a great idea. I'd flush mine every 4 weeks,(seriously) if I had the time and ambition.lol It would also allow you to flush your PH down to spec, killing two birds with one stone. Definitely a good idea, even if you are just cleaning out the medium, giving it a fresh start. Throw in some foliar feeding, and it sounds like you pretty much have it covered, or under control, at the very least.


EDIT: Yep, I'd go with grow fert, for the foliar feeding. Better yet, if it has micros in it.

jawbrodt said:

A flushing is a great idea. I'd flush mine every 4 weeks,(seriously) if I had the time and ambition.lol It would also allow you to flush your PH down to spec, killing two birds with one stone. Definitely a good idea, even if you are just cleaning out the medium, giving it a fresh start. Throw in some foliar feeding, and it sounds like you pretty much have it covered, or under control, at the very least.


EDIT: Yep, I'd go with grow fert, for the foliar feeding. Better yet, if it has micros in it.

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copy all that, man. you're like, dumbledore. ok so here's the deal: i'm gonna flush it for the next watering to further lower ph and also clean the soil. i forgot to mention something important, the plant was repotted 10 days ago, after being a bit root bound. the transplant was successful with no apparent stress. but it does have new soil around now, which is also plant-shop bought and fertile, so this is another reason not to root-fert now.

after flushing, i'll start watering it with the bio-heaven 1 out of two or three waterings maybe. it's very low on NPK (0.18 and such), but high on micros and proteins and stuff i don't know about. In addition, I'll give it foliar feeding of grow fertilizer. i'll try to read and catch up on how often to do it and what concentration to use. i'll report the results

i actually smoke from a dirty bong. so i don't care if there's a slight taste. i can also try not to spray the buds but just the leaves. maybe use cotton wool somehow to smear them. would that give me another week or two that i can feed them like that? assuming it helps.

^I use Miracle Grow, or Dynagro Grow/Bloom, with Calmag Plus, and/or Dynagro Protekt(silica), for foliar feeding. I mix it so that the NPK values are 5'ish,(give or take a couple. No higher than 10) and it works great. If you can't find any info on the recommended mixtures, keep it close to what I use, and you'll be fine. Also, instead of smearing them with cotton wool,lol add a drop of dishsoap to each liter of foliar mix. It'll break the surface tension, and allow the leaves to get 'wetter' than normal(no beading up). Just make sure it isn't some fancy kind with "Added Bleach" or some additive like that. I use the cheapest stuff I can get, for that reason.lol Most importantly....


...spray the undersides of the leaves, thoroughly. IDK if I mentioned it in this thread, yet(I did in one other one, today), but,....make sure you soak the undersides of the leaves, very thoroughly, as well as the tops. Nutes are absorbed more efficiently, through the undersides.

Also, your logic on the root-feeding, is solid. They shouldn't be needing anything, not yet, anyway. Yes, the filiar feeding will carry you through an extra week or so. I'm actually considering doing a soil grow, next month, foliar feeding, only. I'm thinking about doing only one plant that way, just to see how it works out. I think it'll work great, but'll have to quit spraying, during the last 3 weeks of so, to avoid bud mold. Bad stuff. Would be a cool experiment, huh?

P.S. Avoid foliar feeding late in the day. Always give them plenty of time to dry out, before light's off/night-time, so that bud mold doesn't have a chance to set in. To me, that's the main reason to stop foliar, late flowering, moreso than it effecting taste. Two weeks of fresh water, can cure that. Bud mold, isn't so easy.

If indoors, crank up the ventilation, after the nutes have been absorbed, and mold won't be an issue. Make sure the fans run at night, as well. I kick mine on for about 15 minutes per hours, and have never had any problems. Knock on wood.


EDIT: I just double-checked, and saw you were growing outdoors. Feed in the early hours, or better yet,...right before sunrise, and you'll be a-okay.

jawbrodt said:

P.S. Avoid foliar feeding late in the day. Always give them plenty of time to dry out, before light's off/night-time, so that bud mold doesn't have a chance to set in. To me, that's the main reason to stop foliar, late flowering, moreso than it effecting taste. Two weeks of fresh water, can cure that. Bud mold, isn't so easy.

If indoors, crank up the ventilation, after the nutes have been absorbed, and mold won't be an issue. Make sure the fans run at night, as well. I kick mine on for about 15 minutes per hours, and have never had any problems. Knock on wood.


EDIT: I just double-checked, and saw you were growing outdoors. Feed in the early hours, or better yet,...right before sunrise, and you'll be a-okay.

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i live in a pretty dry area, so I think that mold isn't really an issue for me. it does get humid sometimes but mostly dry, especially in daytime. If I do it at times of light, won't it risk burning them? you know with the light magnification and stuff. it sounds like bs to me actually, but a lot of people say it so i try to avoid. instead i do it after dark. i could make sure it dries quickly by putting a fan on it, they are in my balcony

I started an interesting thread about shaping and sizing a plant (this time with good genetics ), to fit my needs. I used all kinds of techniques and have an interesting build up for it in, now in pre-flowering. it's got nice pics too check it out if you're interested:
https://www.rollitup.org/advanced-marijuana-cultivation/371676-shaping-sizing-my-strechy-plant.html#post4709920

^I like your choice of shape, with that plant you're training. I should give it excellent light penetration.


The magnification thing? I was always terrified of that, myself, until I read about a study, posted here recently. I was to finally answer that question, specifically. Turns out, that plants won't get burned by water sitting on leaves, UNLESS, there are hairs to keep the droplets suspended above the surface, allowing the droplet to act like a magnifying glass. Cannabis didn't fall into that category. A few types of plants did, but not weed. Logic would tell you that a plant would get burned to hell, every time it rained, then got sunny afterwards. Right? Also, adding that drop of soap, to break the surface tension of the water, prevents it from forming beads, further making the whole process safer.

But, myself, like you, have been brainwashed over time,lol after hearing all the warnings against it. So, I still take precautions. I do it before my lights come on, or back the lights waaaaay off until the moisture has dried. Even though I've read those test results, I still can't shake the idea that I might end up running into some freak circumstances, that'll burn my girls to hell.lol IDK how long it'll take to shake that one. Actually, I don't mind much, because it forces me to feed at the optimum time, morning.

So, use that info as you wish. I'm just putting it out there.

asaph... you cannot let the plants dry out to the point of wilting !!! that is why the leaves are falling off from the bottom up... when u pick them up, and notice they feel light.... WATER THEM.. also keep the ph at 6 or your plants cant use the nutes... 7 too high 5 too low.. usually , tr one thing at a time... wait 3 4 days u will see the results... dont try too many things at once... they look good just go slow... Good Luck... Peace

Give it a dose of your veg fert for 1 or 2 feedings and that should take care of some of your yellowing problems and I always try and keep my ph level between 6.0-6.5. Your yellowing problem looks like the normal yellowing of leaves thats associated w/ the flowering process but like I said if you give it veg fert. for a couple waterings that may help you get rid of some of the yellow

Weed Daddy said:

asaph... you cannot let the plants dry out to the point of wilting !!! that is why the leaves are falling off from the bottom up... Good Luck... Peace

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Thanks for backing me on that, I was getting the vibe that he wasn't quite sold on the idea, when I mentioned it. I've made the mistake myself, which is how I discovered it, and was shocked to see how destructive it was to let them drying to the point of drooping, especially during flowing. I've had 30" plants lose 2/3 of their fan leaves, in a matter of a few days, after a bad dry spell.(of my own creation, or course.lol) There's no stopping it, either. Once they've dried beyond a certain point, the damage has been done. And, even though the foliage perks right back up after watering, those leaves are doomed. After a couple days, they'll rapidly turn yellow and die, falling off, soon afterwards. Makes me wonder how many times this has happened here at RIU, and is mistaken for a N deficiency? Probably quite a bit.