Decarbing tincture (after extraction)

Hi.
So it's strained/filtered and in a mason jar(yes, I know, I should've decarbed before). Many instructions say to put the tightly sealed mason jar in a pot of boiling water. Some give temperatures but Im not sure if they're referring to the temp of the water or the temp of the tincture inside jar... which would be tough given that it's sealed. I would assume that no matter how hot the stove gets and how intense the boil of the water is, the temp inside the jar won't get higher than 220F which would be safe, right?

Any guidance? I also don't mind if some of the alcohol evaporates as long as the cannabinoids don't.

Alcohol boils at 173f you need to evaporate off your solvent before you decarb. What is the end product you're trying to make?

p0opstlnksal0t said:

Alcohol boils at 173f you need to evaporate off your solvent before you decarb. What is the end product you're trying to make?

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Tincture but some kind of RSO-like stuff would be OK too. I'd prefer not to do anything that involves slow cookers, transferring of substance from many containers, and all that other hoopla... if possible. Oh and the tincture was made by letting flower sit in a big jar of 151.

TiberiusFunk said:

Hi.
So it's strained/filtered and in a mason jar(yes, I know, I should've decarbed before). Many instructions say to put the tightly sealed mason jar in a pot of boiling water. Some give temperatures but Im not sure if they're referring to the temp of the water or the temp of the tincture inside jar... which would be tough given that it's sealed. I would assume that no matter how hot the stove gets and how intense the boil of the water is, the temp inside the jar won't get higher than 220F which would be safe, right?

Any guidance? I also don't mind if some of the alcohol evaporates as long as the cannabinoids don't.

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if you boil alcohol in a jar it will explode I think

Leave the lid loose enough for the alcohol and water to escape....
By the time that’s happened, your decarb may be 90% accomplished (85%+@30min). I would definitely see how it does at that point, if you have the patience

You really need 250f for about 30 mins for a good decarb. You're not gonna get a decarb as long as it's suspended in ethanol

Bagginski said:

Leave the lid loose enough for the alcohol and water to escape....
By the time that’s happened, your decarb may be 90% accomplished (85%+@30min). I would definitely see how it does at that point, if you have the patience

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He won't hit decarb temp as long as the cannabinoids are suspended in etoh

Why would the ethanol prevent decarboxylation?

You have data indicating that no decarboxylation occurs below 250, I’d like to see it if you don’t mind

TiberiusFunk said:

Tincture but some kind of RSO-like stuff would be OK too. I'd prefer not to do anything that involves slow cookers, transferring of substance from many containers, and all that other hoopla... if possible. Oh and the tincture was made by letting flower sit in a big jar of 151.

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You need to evap off all the ethanol first

Bagginski said:

Why would the ethanol prevent decarboxylation?

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Look above I said it boils at 173f. Meaning it won't reach decarb temp until all of the ethanol is boiled off

The question remains, why? Honestly want to know.

When you add energy in the form of heat to a liquid it will stay .at whatever temperature the phase change takes place at a given pressure. Adding more heat above 173f does not make the temperature of the liquid higher than the boiling point It merely gets to that temperature faster. Here's a good example or experiment for you throw a pot of boiling water on the stove measure the temperature of the bottom of the pot that is in contact with the flame then measure the temperature of the water that's boiling itself. Just because you have a 500-degree flame on it does not mean the temperature of the water will be 500° while it's boiling

I decarb my pucks with no solvent. 250F in a mason jar on an electric burner and water. Boil off water and heat until 250, no higher, and continue until no more bubbles. Then I put this syrup in 100 proof or better and and heat again loosely lidded in a boiling water for long enough to dissolve the wax. Will set you down if mature base materials. No toxins and no BS.

Just use an electric hot plate and do it outside in the open. High risk of fires and worse. Be safe.

this is my experience trying to decarb tincture like you are trying to. It won't work, the alcohol will evap too fast and the temp wont go high enough

Bagginski said:

The question remains, why? Honestly want to know.

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its pretty much the same concept as water only being able to get up to a certain temp before it turns to a vapor. The liquid will never be higher temp than its boiling point, unless it is superheated or some shit but that is dangerous. Im sure there might be a way but without research I'd say you are just supposed to decarb first.

The fix would be to evap off all the alcohol, decarb, then do whatever you want as far as ingesting it goes

Nizza said:

if you boil alcohol in a jar it will explode I think

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You are correct lol

You really want to de carb your product prior to making your tincture and this point you might be stuck boiling off you alcohol and making rso imo

Nizza said:

its pretty much the same concept as water only being able to get up to a certain temp before it turns to a vapor. The liquid will never be higher temp than its boiling point, unless it is superheated or some shit but that is dangerous. Im sure there might be a way but without research I'd say you are just supposed to decarb first.

The fix would be to evap off all the alcohol, decarb, then do whatever you want as far as ingesting it goes

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Oops my post was repetitive... what he said lol

Nizza said:

its pretty much the same concept as water only being able to get up to a certain temp before it turns to a vapor. The liquid will never be higher temp than its boiling point, unless it is superheated or some shit but that is dangerous. Im sure there might be a way but without research I'd say you are just supposed to decarb first.

The fix would be to evap off all the alcohol, decarb, then do whatever you want as far as ingesting it goes

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Thanks for the response; for the record, I do understand the limitation on temperature improved by boiling points. Let me sharpen my question: is there evidence that NO decarboxylation takes place between ambient and 173f, and no decarboxylation taking place between 173f and 212f? Or are we assuming?

I understand that “the rule for decarbing” is a long time at high temperature for *complete* decarboxylation, during which time CBN conversion comes into play. As spontaneous decarboxylation occurs over time at ambient temperatures, if none takes place during the heating of a cannabis solution, there must surely be evidence showing it. If so, it settles my questions. If not, then we’re still gathering information.

Below is the only chart I can find (I’ve seen another) that shows a half-hour decarb measurement; the *really* suggestive element is this: it shows decarb to be 87% complete after 30 minutes at temp. This makes me very interested in the front-end progress of the conversion, more than in how long “it ought to go”. Given that THC brings red eyes, dilated pupils, dry mouth and the munchies - and not much else - I’m content with 87% conversion of THC...unless evidence directs otherwise.

I am always open to hard data and solid empirical results, which prompted my question: I am only an egg in these affairs.

Bagginski said:

Thanks for the response; for the record, I do understand the limitation on temperature improved by boiling points. Let me sharpen my question: is there evidence that NO decarboxylation takes place between ambient and 173f, and no decarboxylation taking place between 173f and 212f?

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Some people here describe using sous-vide at 170F for 4 to 6 hours