high all, n00b here

doughper said:

fade is graywolf? heh... I was reading about graywolf a year or so back in my web meanderings
to figger out how to decarb or make sublingual tinctures or something. He's kind of a legend, as
remember. I've got so many damn bookmarks since it got legal. I've just been buying all these
strange-ass varietals from the dispensary for the past few years.

Click to expand...

Welcome aboard brother! Take it from a tattered ooold "legend" that the secret to putting your pants on both legs at the same time, is to first sit down. The rest is easy.

Looking at your decarb procedure, I'm guessing you are losing a portion of your potency potential there. Try this instead after extraction using ethanol: https://graywolfslair.com/index.php/10-the-alchemist-resource/10-1-decarboxylation/10-1-4-decarboxylation-101

Note from the included chart that at 212F, the boiling point of water, that your potential total THC is less than at 250F or 293F.

Not sure how you are taking your dose, but we used sublingually for orals with good effect: https://graywolfslair.com/index.php/diy-cannamed-production/9-5-formulation-and-application/9-5-1-holy-anointing-oil

PS: The concentrates thread is a better thread to ask questions about concentrates.

Well, wow, I got a reply from a legend, Graywolf. Your site's outstanding, btw. And the
help you provided me could be invaluable.

I should add that i'm not sure if my description of my
process was entirely accurate. I did make some notes but, hell, now i'm not sure which
of the notes i made were exactly the process i used. Right off hand, i can say that I put
the nugs, only 1 gram, inside a small mason jar, which i then sealed inside a boil-in bag
and cooked it like i said at some 212 degrees or something in that realm, a la sous vide
(wow, some Francaise, eh?), after about 90 minutes, i then cooled it, added 1 oz of everclear, shook it vigorously,
strained it, and stuck it into a freezer. It's still in there. I tried an eyedropper or two of it
and shit, i liked to burn my tongue off! So i added more water to dilute it at about a 1:1
ratio and it was then tolerable. But anyhow, it did not work for me.

Eventually i will try it again, with your higher recommended temperature. I will also study
your links. Also thanks for referring me to the concentrates thread. I got off to a kind of
fast start here, especially with my initial post in the Introduction forum. But it's been a
few years, and i have had a real hard time trying to make sublingual tinctures work. I'm
thinking that i just don't absorb them or something. Even edibles have not worked, as I
think i posted here. And trust me, they've worked in the past, whew, WAY too much have
they worked, heehee. One time about 40 some years ago, i thot it'd be a good idea to
eat a gram or two of hash, and then jump on an airliner. Whew...the plane landed way
before I did.

Fadedawg said:

Welcome aboard brother! Take it from a tattered ooold "legend" that the secret to putting your pants on both legs at the same time, is to first sit down. The rest is easy.

Looking at your decarb procedure, I'm guessing you are losing a portion of your potency potential there. Try this instead after extraction using ethanol: https://graywolfslair.com/index.php/10-the-alchemist-resource/10-1-decarboxylation/10-1-4-decarboxylation-101

Note from the included chart that at 212F, the boiling point of water, that your potential total THC is less than at 250F or 293F.

Not sure how you are taking your dose, but we used sublingually for orals with good effect: https://graywolfslair.com/index.php/diy-cannamed-production/9-5-formulation-and-application/9-5-1-holy-anointing-oil

PS: The concentrates thread is a better thread to ask questions about concentrates.

Click to expand...

Sure a lot of great stuff you put out Fadedawg! I'm just setting up to process lots of pot, (for me), and was going to do most of it with naphtha but after reading over that RSO 2.0 paper I'm shifting gears. I still need to get the vacuum attachment for my lab still but can go ahead with other stuff for now.

I started doing my decarbs after extraction a few years back. First when making cocobudder by raising the temp to 250 after cooking for a while and boiling off the water from the fresh buds. Now I'm just making everything into oil and use that as a base for all my other concoctions.

Couple of quick questions if you don't mind.

Is it OK to keep RSO in the freezer for maybe a few years? Not sure how long I'll be living here but probably a few more years so want to up my production and store it all as oil. Health is beginning to go sideways for me and the wife in our dotage so may end up moving someplace closer to medical access.

When I decarb the oil as my final step how long after the bubbles stop do I need to keep it at 250 to get a decent level of CBN to make it a better sleepytime med? Say 50ml+ of oil.

I love wandering around the Lair and learning so much stuff. If I'd had these kind of resources when I grew my first buds in '78 my life would have been so much more interesting and so much better. I would have become a pot scientist instead of waiting until my 30s to get a diploma in environmental chem.

Thanks for all you do!

doughper said:

One time about 40 some years ago, i thot it'd be a good idea to
eat a gram or two of hash, and then jump on an airliner. Whew...the plane landed way
before I did.

Click to expand...

Me and some buds were in a rented car going from Calgary to Banff for a big b-day party and we all had pot and hash on us. Deuce, the driver, had a half pound of blond leb all cut up into chunks a wrapped in tinfoil, Buddy in the back seat beside me had 10 - 5g vials of honey oil, I had an eighth of tha blond leb and a couple grams of temple ball. Other guy in the front had about an 8th of brick weed. Smoking fatties all the way and at the gates to enter the park a cop pulled us over. I ate my blond leb and the cop didn't find the temple. Deuce jammed the bag of hash up into the springs under the seat and the cop didn't find it. All he found was the 8th of schwag then gave us a few minutes to talk it over and pick someone to take the blame, get an appearance ticket for court and be on our way or we all go for a free overnight stay in the grey-bar hotel and the car gets towed. Other dude in the front seat took the hit and off we went.

Part way thru the meal I grabbed Deuce sitting beside me and told him I was getting really f'ed up and needed to go outside. We stood up and he wasn't paying attention and I watched the floor come up and hit me in the face. lol I went out in the car to lie down and was tripping balls. After the meal they dragged me into the bar like a rag doll and poured beer down my neck half the night. Then drove up some mountain and pinched my nose while sticking joints into my mouth. With friends like these . . .

I'm just glad it wasn't an 8th of the temple ball or I really would've been f'ed up.

Thanks. That is the coolest story. I think the hash i ate was black lebanese. It was like 1972 or thereabouts. Whew... I guess we're supposed to tell these tales in toke n talk. right?

And that reminds me of going to see Kansas, in...well, Kansas. 4 of us in a van. just some regular dirt weed. get to concert and we standing in a tight circle, kinda feeling awkward with all the ppl waiting for ticket gate to open. my bud standing right directly across from me, just falls backward, as stiff as a board. me and his little bro, went over, put our hand under his shoulders and lifted, and he came upright, straight as a board. no knee buckle, nothing. and his bro and i later observed that to us he felt as light as a feather when we brought him to his feet. damned if your story didn't remind me of that. OH RIU is fabulous! Oh, and we got the HELL outta Dodge after that happened. No Kansas for us that night.

OldMedUser said:

Sure a lot of great stuff you put out Fadedawg! I'm just setting up to process lots of pot, (for me), and was going to do most of it with naphtha but after reading over that RSO 2.0 paper I'm shifting gears. I still need to get the vacuum attachment for my lab still but can go ahead with other stuff for now.

I started doing my decarbs after extraction a few years back. First when making cocobudder by raising the temp to 250 after cooking for a while and boiling off the water from the fresh buds. Now I'm just making everything into oil and use that as a base for all my other concoctions.

Couple of quick questions if you don't mind.

Is it OK to keep RSO in the freezer for maybe a few years? Not sure how long I'll be living here but probably a few more years so want to up my production and store it all as oil. Health is beginning to go sideways for me and the wife in our dotage so may end up moving someplace closer to medical access.

When I decarb the oil as my final step how long after the bubbles stop do I need to keep it at 250 to get a decent level of CBN to make it a better sleepytime med? Say 50ml+ of oil.

I love wandering around the Lair and learning so much stuff. If I'd had these kind of resources when I grew my first buds in '78 my life would have been so much more interesting and so much better. I would have become a pot scientist instead of waiting until my 30s to get a diploma in environmental chem.

Thanks for all you do!

Click to expand...

Thanks for the good thoughts and appreciation brother!

Light, heat, and oxygen degrade RSO. Kept in an opaque airtight container in the freezer, it should last for years. Some 2000 year old hash was found in a tomb and the very center of the brick was still active THC.

Unfortunately I have no good answer to your second question, as the same heat that degrades THC to CBN, also degrades CBN to its next lower form, so the transformation isn't 1:1.

Let me check with an associate who makes the various cannabinoid isolates and see how he's making CBD.

doughper said:

Well, wow, I got a reply from a legend, Graywolf. Your site's outstanding, btw. And the
help you provided me could be invaluable.

I should add that i'm not sure if my description of my
process was entirely accurate. I did make some notes but, hell, now i'm not sure which
of the notes i made were exactly the process i used. Right off hand, i can say that I put
the nugs, only 1 gram, inside a small mason jar, which i then sealed inside a boil-in bag
and cooked it like i said at some 212 degrees or something in that realm, a la sous vide
(wow, some Francaise, eh?), after about 90 minutes, i then cooled it, added 1 oz of everclear, shook it vigorously,
strained it, and stuck it into a freezer. It's still in there. I tried an eyedropper or two of it
and shit, i liked to burn my tongue off! So i added more water to dilute it at about a 1:1
ratio and it was then tolerable. But anyhow, it did not work for me.

Eventually i will try it again, with your higher recommended temperature. I will also study
your links. Also thanks for referring me to the concentrates thread. I got off to a kind of
fast start here, especially with my initial post in the Introduction forum. But it's been a
few years, and i have had a real hard time trying to make sublingual tinctures work. I'm
thinking that i just don't absorb them or something. Even edibles have not worked, as I
think i posted here. And trust me, they've worked in the past, whew, WAY too much have
they worked, heehee. One time about 40 some years ago, i thot it'd be a good idea to
eat a gram or two of hash, and then jump on an airliner. Whew...the plane landed way
before I did.

Click to expand...

Thanks for your good thoughts and appreciation!

Instead of adding water, try removing most of the alcohol and use it sublingually. Alcohol and RSO will mix at any ration so if you remove enough alcohol, the oil becomes the menstrum and the alcohol the solute (less than 50%). Leave just enough alcohol to allow the oil to feed through a dropper.

Stick it under your tongue and hold it as long as possible. You should start to feel it within minutes, as it bypasses digestion and your liver on the way to your blood steam.

I knew i'd visited your site the past couple years. That equipment was mind-bending. I thot
"what kinda person can do this kind of thing?" and then I just moved on, because it was way
beyond my cognition. Terpenator, holy smoke...boil, boil, trouble and toil...Gibson welding?
So i was visiting your site 30 mins ago, looked a bit deeper. Heh. Unreal. I welded for Gibson
trailers what, 45 years ago? nothing fancy there, but i was cert'ed in nuke spec stainless heliarc.
The trailers was just something to tide me over for awhile. Couldn't be the same Gibson tho, could it???
Sorry man, i'm kinda mind-blown. So, what, just evaporate most of the alcohol off? I had to look up
"menstrum": "(historical) A solvent. [from 16th c.]Any liquid medium". And yeah, i have always
held the sublingual as long as possible. I've tried like 5 diff brands, as i listed them in my intro post. I even
timed how long I held it. Sometimes 3 minutes or more. Always at least one minute. But felt nothing.
Amazing to find RIU, and you just happened to be here. Life never ceases to amaze. LOL

Fadedawg said:

Thanks for the good thoughts and appreciation brother!

Light, heat, and oxygen degrade RSO. Kept in an opaque airtight container in the freezer, it should last for years. Some 2000 year old hash was found in a tomb and the very center of the brick was still active THC.

Unfortunately I have no good answer to your second question, as the same heat that degrades THC to CBN, also degrades CBN to its next lower form, so the transformation isn't 1:1.

Let me check with an associate who makes the various cannabinoid isolates and see how he's making CBD.

Click to expand...

Thanks much!

I had heard thru the bro-science grapevine that oil shouldn't be frozen but I don't recall the reason. Didn't make sense to me as pot can be frozen for years and still gets you high.

I've seen charts that show CBN breaks down too but wasn't clear on that. just wanted to kind of put a bit of a sleepy buzz to some. I'm supplying a half dozen friends with meds for various conditions including 4th stage cancers so want to tailor some to work better. Once I can get my batches done I'll be sending a couple samples off to a lab so I know what I'm working with for dosage needs. Just going by feel atm but results demand precision so dialing things in as much as I can.

I'm also going to be growing some new strains and a couple like Paonia Purple Paralyzer are supposed to be damn near narcotic so that may fix the sleepy issue.

Speaking of sleepy . . .

Well it took me long enough. Fuggin' interwebs are a mind blower, anyhow. Shit u can do with it.

OldMedUser said:


a couple like Paonia Purple Paralyzer are supposed to be damn near narcotic so that may fix the sleepy issue.

Click to expand...

Well, I sure hope you get it. I am duly impressed with your efforts and those of others like you, who
are working so hard to help others. There are some beautiful people in this sometimes ugly world. TY bro.
So, as dave attell used to say at the end of his show, Insomniac with Dave Attell: "Well, the sun's coming up, time to get some sleep!"

doughper said:

I knew i'd visited your site the past couple years. That equipment was mind-bending. I thot
"what kinda person can do this kind of thing?" and then I just moved on, because it was way
beyond my cognition. Terpenator, holy smoke...boil, boil, trouble and toil...Gibson welding?
So i was visiting your site 30 mins ago, looked a bit deeper. Heh. Unreal. I welded for Gibson
trailers what, 45 years ago? nothing fancy there, but i was cert'ed in nuke spec stainless heliarc.
The trailers was just something to tide me over for awhile. Couldn't be the same Gibson tho, could it???
Sorry man, i'm kinda mind-blown. So, what, just evaporate most of the alcohol off? I had to look up
"menstrum": "(historical) A solvent. [from 16th c.]Any liquid medium". And yeah, i have always
held the sublingual as long as possible. I've tried like 5 diff brands, as i listed them in my intro post. I even
timed how long I held it. Sometimes 3 minutes or more. Always at least one minute. But felt nothing.
Amazing to find RIU, and you just happened to be here. Life never ceases to amaze. LOL

Click to expand...

Thanks for your good thoughts and appreciations!

Not the same Gibson. Rod was a gifted aerospace welder and weld instructor.

Life certainly has enough amazements and puzzlements to never get boring. I fenced with a Chinese exchange student attending the local Oregon Lewis and Clark University, and a few years later bumped into him in a botanical garden in Japan. Figure the odds....................

doughper said:

Well it took me long enough. Fuggin' interwebs are a mind blower, anyhow. Shit u can do with it.

Click to expand...

OldMedUser said:

Thanks much!

I had heard thru the bro-science grapevine that oil shouldn't be frozen but I don't recall the reason. Didn't make sense to me as pot can be frozen for years and still gets you high.

I've seen charts that show CBN breaks down too but wasn't clear on that. just wanted to kind of put a bit of a sleepy buzz to some. I'm supplying a half dozen friends with meds for various conditions including 4th stage cancers so want to tailor some to work better. Once I can get my batches done I'll be sending a couple samples off to a lab so I know what I'm working with for dosage needs. Just going by feel atm but results demand precision so dialing things in as much as I can.

I'm also going to be growing some new strains and a couple like Paonia Purple Paralyzer are supposed to be damn near narcotic so that may fix the sleepy issue.

Speaking of sleepy . . .

Click to expand...

Cooking it longer does reduce the total THC and increase CBN, but not in direct proportion.

Interestingly, Beta Myrcene is the couch lock in cannabis, not the CBN.

Fadedawg said:

Beta Myrcene is the couch lock in cannabis, not the CBN.

Click to expand...

Really? So if I buy some Beta Myrcene I could just add some to the oil for a more sedative effect? I picked up some beta-caryophyllene and haven't used any yet but plan to with these new batches. The amount to use is still to be determined but I've read that around 5% by weight is about right.

Big learning curve with a lot of this stuff and my climbing skills are not quite what they used to be.

OldMedUser said:

Really? So if I buy some Beta Myrcene I could just add some to the oil for a more sedative effect? I picked up some beta-caryophyllene and haven't used any yet but plan to with these new batches. The amount to use is still to be determined but I've read that around 5% by weight is about right.

Big learning curve with a lot of this stuff and my climbing skills are not quite what they used to be.

Click to expand...

5% would most likely be a little stiff for beta myrcene. I would probably start at 1% and work up.

You can vape straight beta myrcene and you will get the idea.

Fadedawg said:

Interestingly, Beta Myrcene is the couch lock in cannabis, not the CBN.

Click to expand...

Well, who in the world knew this about beta myrcene? Unreal, man. I read the above when you
posted it, and was amazed. Didn't hardly understand a word, searched on
it, etc., thought about it, etc. I read that it's used sometimes in flavorings and aromas.

Then, it occurred to ask you if there's a terpene
that does the opposite. For example, 2 years or so back, I got some store-bought
stuff, because that's all i have nerve to obtain, called maui wowie, and while the
high was good, it resulted in a hearty PANIC attack. So I still
have a jay or two of it stashed away. It's sativa, which I prefer because last thing
my tired-azz needs is couch-lock, but that stuff, i can't do it if it's gonna panic
me out. I've experienced panic before over the decades. Anyhow, I got thinking,
and what kind of terpene or substance would result in the opposite of causing panic
attacks particularly, say in some sativas like the maui wowie?

Fadedawg said:

Not the same Gibson. Rod was a gifted aerospace welder and weld instructor.

Click to expand...

And, nah, I didn't think it'd be the same Gibson, but hey if you don't ask, u never know.
Aerospace welding's a far cry from semi-trailer MIG welding. That was in like '74 or so.
First time I ever saw MIG, prior to that was just TIG and stick, well, and oxy-acetelyne on
natural gas lines later.

Fadedawg said:

I fenced with a Chinese exchange student

Click to expand...

You fenced, eh? Chainlink or wood cedar pickets? (heehee) You must mean like the sport, right? LOL

Fadedawg said:

5% would most likely be a little stiff for beta myrcene. I would probably start at 1% and work up.

You can vape straight beta myrcene and you will get the idea.

Click to expand...

Good to know. Thanks.

doughper said:

Well, who in the world knew this about beta myrcene? Unreal, man. I read the above when you
posted it, and was amazed. Didn't hardly understand a word, searched on
it, etc., thought about it, etc. I read that it's used sometimes in flavorings and aromas.

Then, it occurred to ask you if there's a terpene
that does the opposite. For example, 2 years or so back, I got some store-bought
stuff, because that's all i have nerve to obtain, called maui wowie, and while the
high was good, it resulted in a hearty PANIC attack. So I still
have a jay or two of it stashed away. It's sativa, which I prefer because last thing
my tired-azz needs is couch-lock, but that stuff, i can't do it if it's gonna panic
me out. I've experienced panic before over the decades. Anyhow, I got thinking,
and what kind of terpene or substance would result in the opposite of causing panic
attacks particularly, say in some sativas like the maui wowie?


And, nah, I didn't think it'd be the same Gibson, but hey if you don't ask, u never know.
Aerospace welding's a far cry from semi-trailer MIG welding. That was in like '74 or so.
First time I ever saw MIG, prior to that was just TIG and stick, well, and oxy-acetelyne on
natural gas lines later.

You fenced, eh? Chainlink or wood cedar pickets? (heehee) You must mean like the sport, right? LOL

Click to expand...

Here is a link to the properties of the terpenes in cannabis: https://graywolfslair.com/index.php/8-essential-oil-safety/sweet-mary-s-charms

I fenced foil, saber, epee and Kendo. I've also built a fair amount of barbed wire and cedar plank fencing.

Wow, well, yanno what they say, "good fencers make good neighbors", or something like that.
Anyhow, that link is to what, War and Peace? Lordy, how am I gonna go through all them terps?
So, what I did was copy the beta myrcene, and did a find on it in the browser, which found 3 or
4 incidences of beta myrcene, and it's properties. And from there, i was stumped, about which of
the other 31 terps had which properties. Man, the lair, that's one amazing site, compendium, whatever.
How do you do it, man?

doughper said:

Wow, well, yanno what they say, "good fencers make good neighbors", or something like that.
Anyhow, that link is to what, War and Peace? Lordy, how am I gonna go through all them terps?
So, what I did was copy the beta myrcene, and did a find on it in the browser, which found 3 or
4 incidences of beta myrcene, and it's properties. And from there, i was stumped, about which of
the other 31 terps had which properties. Man, the lair, that's one amazing site, compendium, whatever.
How do you do it, man?

Click to expand...

Thanks for the good thoughts! The secret ingredient is time.....................