Dave's 2nd Grow - LSD in Bubble/DWC with Fogger

I just read through the first 21 pages of SCOTTYBALLS' SCROG journal. VERY interesting and informative! It's amazing that one plant was drinking 1.3 gallons per day.

One thing that I learned was that I had been mistaken about how the screen is used in a SCROG. I had always thought that you weave the branches through the screen from one side all the way to the other, HORIZONTALLY. Now I see that you just use the screen to spread out the branches, basically. Using the latter method, I think I might still need to use a stronger light source than I have. But I wonder if my original idea might work. That way I could keep the upper parts of the branches as close to my fluorescent lights as possible. I'd have to really make sure the branches didn't grow too long or else they'd run out of room in the screen, but I wonder if this mad method might work.

Here's a diagram of what I was talking about before, about growing a plant from one side of a screen to the other:



The reason for weaving the branches through the screen like this would be to keep all of the branches around the same distance from the lights. I want them to be close to, but not touching my fluorescents. On the downside, I suppose that bending the branches so much would stress the plant, and they'd only be getting light on one side. Can anyone think of a reason why this might not work too well?

Your already a decent way into flower. Usually it's best to veg into the screen. Just added stress, but no more stressful then bending branches I suppose. The screen shouldn't be chicken wire, as this can be sharp and cut into the branches. It's usually best if it's something that can be cut away. Like a wooden frame, and strings tied in a grid patten to screws in the frame.
This CAN work.

dajosh42069 said:

Your already a decent way into flower. Usually it's best to veg into the screen. Just added stress, but no more stressful then bending branches I suppose. The screen shouldn't be chicken wire, as this can be sharp and cut into the branches. It's usually best if it's something that can be cut away. Like a wooden frame, and strings tied in a grid patten to screws in the frame.
This CAN work.

Click to expand...

Oh yeah, this is just the beginnings of a plan for my NEXT grow, not for this one...

I was thinking of making a web of cotton string on a frame of some sort, probably PVC pipes or wood. I want to start weaving the branches into the screen near the beginning of the flower phase I think. Then hopefully the branches won't eventually outgrow the screen and all of the buds will be growing in it, just a few inches away from the lights. The point of doing this is to make better use of the fluorescent lights that I have. They aren't as powerful as HID lamps, so I have to bring the branches closer to them in order to give the branches the lumens that they need.

I just saw this today. Some of the bigger buds are starting to spread out with large gaps between the flowers:






Is this bad or just a natural part of bud development? Anyone know what causes it?

Airy buds are often a consequence of using T5's, CFL's, etc. They can still be very potent, they just aren't that dense.

That doesn't just look like airy buds, the buds are foxtailing. Every occurrence of fox tailing is seen, has been on a hermie, with the exception of 1.
It may be your heat. Your keeping your cabinet temps down @ a constant 79 right?

I looked this up in my book about mj plant problems. The most likely cause is too much heat from my lights. It makes sense, because the buds that are spreading out like this are the ones that are really close to the lights. I'll double check the other buds today to make sure they're all ok, though. Other possibilities are not enough light (can't be an issue with the buds I looked at) and not enough nutrients. So I'll make sure that I'm not overfeeding the plant, which could cause it to stop taking in nutrients. But hopefully this is just a heat problem for the buds that are too close to the lights.

dajosh42069 said:

That doesn't just look like airy buds, the buds are foxtailing. Every occurrence of fox tailing is seen, has been on a hermie, with the exception of 1.
It may be your heat. Your keeping your cabinet temps down @ a constant 79 right?

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I try to keep the cabinet under 77 degrees, preferably under 75 when possible. The buds I showed were too close to my lights.

Did you say that you spotted hermies in my pictures???

kriznarf said:

Airy buds are often a consequence of using T5's, CFL's, etc. They can still be very potent, they just aren't that dense.

Click to expand...

I think I heard that about fluorescent lights somewhere. But I think that the main problem with the buds in my photos is too much heat. They've been almost touching my lights. I'll have to move them.
Thanks.

I bent some more branches yesterday, to get them away from the lights. These first two pics show the top of the plant where I bent them. It's just hard to see, because the branches are such a jumbled mess. Between the excessive heat on some buds and stress from bending the branches, if she doesn't get hermies I guess that shows that this strain has good genes, right?





Here are a few of the buds lower down:



My exhaust fan is good at removing the plant's odor (just blows it up into the attic), but she is still nice and fragrant right now. Aaaaaahhhhhh! Someone should make it into an air freshener. It's a pleasantly floral fragrance with a hint of skunk. It only stinks after a pruned off branch sits in the trash for a few days. Then the skunk really comes out.

No, didn't spot a hermie, foxtailing is usually something that happens to hermies who have turned from stress. Too much heat stress can have that effect.
So i'm just saying to keep an eye out for them.

Hey, your buds are getting there, aren't they? Trichome development means bud that will get you high... And you got that going pretty nicely.

They look fine so far and I don't see any signs of herm. Looks like sensimilla all the way to me.

daveroller said:

Here's a diagram of what I was talking about before, about growing a plant from one side of a screen to the other:

The reason for weaving the branches through the screen like this would be to keep all of the branches around the same distance from the lights. I want them to be close to, but not touching my fluorescents. On the downside, I suppose that bending the branches so much would stress the plant, and they'd only be getting light on one side. Can anyone think of a reason why this might not work too well?

Click to expand...

I'm not sure the scrog screen was meant to be employed quite in that way of under/over weaving. It might work, and you may have success with it, but for the most part, it isn't commonly practiced as it may be asking a little too much for cannabis to behave like a vine or creeping plant. The screen should press the main stalks of the plant horizontally, allowing for the subshoots of each branch to poke through and grow at an even light level.

You may also want to devise a way to make your light shine down on the canopy flatly as well when using the scrog. That step angle idea of yours isn't bad, but I don't think it's best for that fluoro. 400 watt hid's don't cost that much btw... and if you keep it well above your plant, it shouldn't even get that hot.

HID's are good. I would recommend a 400W HPS for your next grow, you'll see the serious density to your buds if you do, as well as other advantages. But you'll prob want a cooltube, otherwise the temps DO get warm. And you don't want it too far above your plant, the lights need to stay between 9-13 inches away from the plant. You CAN get closer, I wouldn't get much further, and the hand test is usually the best way. Put your just JUST over the buds and under the light. If it burns your hand, it'll burn the plant and your to close. Simple stuff.

Thanks guys. I've been really torn about buying an HID lamp because of the problems that I've had with airy, small buds in this grow. And I'd love to get the kind of yields that SCOTTYBALLS gets. But I've been afraid that it will be too hot for my cabinet unless I somehow route an exhaust duct through the light's housing. Might need a second fan for that? My fear is that the two fans together will get too loud and ruin the stealthiness of my setup. Otherwise, I'd be in favor of buying an HID lamp all the way.

Would the exhaust fan for the lamp housing need to be fairly powerful or would a couple of computer fans work? I'm guessing that I'd need something more like my ceiling fan, which pulls 150 cfm. That will require a big rip-up of my system in order to route another duct, but if I can find a small inline fan that will do the trick, then I think I might be able to figure something out. What I'm thinking of will take a lot of work, though.

lordjin said:

I'm not sure the scrog screen was meant to be employed quite in that way of under/over weaving. It might work, and you may have success with it, but for the most part, it isn't commonly practiced as it may be asking a little too much for cannabis to behave like a vine or creeping plant. The screen should press the main stalks of the plant horizontally, allowing for the subshoots of each branch to poke through and grow at an even light level.

You may also want to devise a way to make your light shine down on the canopy flatly as well when using the scrog. That step angle idea of yours isn't bad, but I don't think it's best for that fluoro. 400 watt hid's don't cost that much btw... and if you keep it well above your plant, it shouldn't even get that hot.

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Would I need to get a lamp that has the kind of housing that you blow air through, or can I just get a simple fixture and rely on my ceiling fan to blow the hot air out of the cabinet like I'm doing right now? (It's rated at 150 cfm.) If it's the latter, then I'm just about sold on the idea of getting an HID.

dajosh42069 said:

No, didn't spot a hermie, foxtailing is usually something that happens to hermies who have turned from stress. Too much heat stress can have that effect.
So i'm just saying to keep an eye out for them.

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Great, thanks. I didn't understand your previous post about foxtailing and herms. Thanks for clarifying. I will keep watching for them.

lordjin said:

Hey, your buds are getting there, aren't they? Trichome development means bud that will get you high... And you got that going pretty nicely.

They look fine so far and I don't see any signs of herm. Looks like sensimilla all the way to me.

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Woo-hoo! About 3 more weeks to go. (Maybe less.) I'm looking forward to getting something to smoke out of this, even though it won't be a huge amount.

lordjin said:

Hey, your buds are getting there, aren't they? Trichome development means bud that will get you high... And you got that going pretty nicely.

They look fine so far and I don't see any signs of herm. Looks like sensimilla all the way to me.

Click to expand...

Those leaves that have trichs growing on them are good to smoke, aren't they? I'm thinking that they must be.