CSU Student Walk Out ~ please read and react

Rob Roy said:

Phreaky Goat -

I do like to ask questions.

Milk? I've got some Goats, but they're not Phreaky. Gasoline? I buy it. I make my own electricity, but sometimes the sun doesn't shine enough so I use a small generator or I want to take my jalopy for a spin. Your point?

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first off LOL. second of all both milk and gasoline are heavily subsidized, just saying by using them you too are supporting the 'system'. agree?

[/QUOTE]My developed argument :

I don't think it is right for one person to expect another to pay their way.
Taxes? Most are involuntarily extracted and rely upon the threat of force and confiscation to be collected.
They often fund evil missions, like Pot laws, and killing innocent people in foreign lands...and they even fund Statist Universities.

I believe all people should be free to make voluntary decisions about their life, liberty and property as long as they harm nobody. Being made to subsidize somebody else, is a form of involuntary servitude. It's wrong.

If you feel the need to protest something, why not be against laws that steal people's choices?
I feel that protesting for the continuance of subsidies is very selfish and dismisses logic.

Education is wonderful, but funding it through subordinating others is wrong.[/QUOTE]

ok that was a strong argument, thanks.

I agree fundamentally that using tax dollars in the first place (when they are gathered in these ways) is unethical, because of their source. but taxes are completely voluntary, in the sense that citizenship is voluntary (I am NOT saying that any of this is necessarily constitutionally ethical). So now that anyone who is offended by these taxes has had the chance to stay or go, the only people that are left are those who are willing to pay.

And with all of this money funneled to the government, what better outlet could there be? I'm sorry but IMO the CSU system does not contain Statist Universities. If anything, a great deal of the lecture is actually realistic about socio-economics. So if I/others don't fight to keep this system alive, there's only going to be more funding for bullshit, and less self-actualized people.

I certainly agree that school can sometimes be a deterrent to real, worthy, and realistic life education, but I believe you'd be hard pressed to say that the system of higher education is not the most accessible and most efficient form of real education for the masses. Not everyone has the capacity to do it on their own.

And perhaps this pursuit is a bit selfish, but wouldn't you agree that this type of 'selfishness' is the same type that led to civil rights, prison reform, etc etc?

I am also a member of the Peace Alliance, so I am out there debating the preliminary issues of political ethics. And based on my experience, libertarianism is a fantastic utopian ideology, but just like socialism or democrasy, it never works out in the intended ways. great philosophically, poor functionally.

ps: the word 'evil' when applied to human behavior is fundamentally inaccurate, we are all the results of a self-serving bias and psychology. just putting that out there.

Phreaky goat -

The difference is I do not protest to get others to buy my milk and gasoline for me.

People are not free to leave the system without fear of reprisal from the system.

I am okay with selfish behavior, but not okay with forced confiscatory behavior, there is a HUGE difference.
The first harms nobody, the second initiates aggression.

I personally share with my friends, and sometimes less fortunate strangers, but it is and should always be MY choice to do so.

Soon we will all realize why it is a bad idea to depend on the government to do anything. Your walk-out will do nothing, but I still encourage it because it may broaden your horizons some. The State of California is Bankrupt . . . bottom line. If you think this is bad get ready for stag-flation

You think the CSUs are bad? The UCs might as well be private schools. Community college transfers are becoming a necessary part of the university progression nowadays.

i totally agree.
well, all you radical bastards, don't fuggin go to class on thursday at noon... unless you're going to class as a protest of the protest. then, i dig it

I watched some video of the protests and interviews. It seems there is a common theme. It is a theme that screams, "Since I can't afford school now, you owe me". These are some spoiled kids, weaned on a sense of entitlement. Sad.

phreakygoat said:

i totally agree.
well, all you radical bastards, don't fuggin go to class on thursday at noon... unless you're going to class as a protest of the protest. then, i dig it

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your walkout and protesting without the threat of violence makes you an american.

protesting so hard working folks have to pay YOUR way makes you a leech.

you should make a sign like that and carry it.

i've grown quite tired of these protests. what it comes down to is a bunch of folks bitching about a decrease in entitlements when those that are funding this mess are losing everything. we've got teachers and administrators complaining about furloughs and a lack of funding. well the state is broke, unemployment is high and they're going to have to figure out how to do without, just like the rest of us. we have students complaining that a heavily subsidized educational system is facing cut-backs. once again, there's no money for all those little niceties that we've gotten used to and it's time to pony up if you want the benefits of a higher education. lip service is paid to the damaging effects of cutbacks in public schooling, but all anyone is really bitching about is how it affects them in their cushy positions.

the state has been wasting billions on do-nothing social programs during the fat years and we are reaping what we've sown now that times have gotten lean. we can no longer afford to churn out degrees in women's studies, ethnic histories, children's literature and under-basket water weaving at the taxpayer's expense. we can no longer afford to coddle every child that doesn't thrive and we can no longer cater to every minority and special interest that cries over its alleged victimhood. it would be nice if every student could have a curriculum designed around their needs and provided by the excess of a thriving economy, but that economy just isn't there and it won't come back if we continue to suck the taxpayer dry. the expense of our top-heavy educational system can't and shouldn't be borne by the few who are still able to be productive in a collapsing economy.

if californians and americans in general aren't willing to realize that a privatized educational system is the most productive answer, we can only expect things to get much worse. from top to bottom, our schools have become over-politicized institutions of indoctrination and mediocrity, intent on coddling every special interest that screams loud enough and so heavily subsidized by an unwilling public that they are a massive drain on an ailing economy. the waste inherent in the uc system alone is staggering and continuing this reckless, agenda driven tradition is what these protests are all about.

Rob Roy said:

I watched some video of the protests and interviews. It seems there is a common theme. It is a theme that screams, "Since I can't afford school now, you owe me". These are some spoiled kids, weaned on a sense of entitlement. Sad.

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wow, i am surprised by how much people really don't dig this movement. in my very narrow perspective it seems naturalistic, after all I grew up with college a guaranteed move in my life. I'm sorry you feel like all college students are spoiled and entitled, hmmm maybe its all the parents who suck at raising kids, who seem to be comprised mostly of the generation thats all pissy about this.

jeff f said:

your walkout and protesting without the threat of violence makes you an american.

protesting so hard working folks have to pay YOUR way makes you a leech.

you should make a sign like that and carry it.

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first off, way to make a decent argument needlessly douch-y. You don't know shit about my life, american or not. damn, you riled me up Muhammed!
second, this isn't socialism dude. this is me having to pay a lot of tuition and work all the time and not be able to afford books and struggle to eat (thank god for growin weed). so yeah, sorry if that makes me a leech.

undertheice said:

i've grown quite tired of these protests. what it comes down to is a bunch of folks bitching about a decrease in entitlements when those that are funding this mess are losing everything. we've got teachers and administrators complaining about furloughs and a lack of funding. well the state is broke, unemployment is high and they're going to have to figure out how to do without, just like the rest of us. we have students complaining that a heavily subsidized educational system is facing cut-backs. once again, there's no money for all those little niceties that we've gotten used to and it's time to pony up if you want the benefits of a higher education. lip service is paid to the damaging effects of cutbacks in public schooling, but all anyone is really bitching about is how it affects them in their cushy positions.

the state has been wasting billions on do-nothing social programs during the fat years and we are reaping what we've sown now that times have gotten lean. we can no longer afford to churn out degrees in women's studies, ethnic histories, children's literature and under-basket water weaving at the taxpayer's expense. we can no longer afford to coddle every child that doesn't thrive and we can no longer cater to every minority and special interest that cries over its alleged victimhood. it would be nice if every student could have a curriculum designed around their needs and provided by the excess of a thriving economy, but that economy just isn't there and it won't come back if we continue to suck the taxpayer dry. the expense of our top-heavy educational system can't and shouldn't be borne by the few who are still able to be productive in a collapsing economy.

if californians and americans in general aren't willing to realize that a privatized educational system is the most productive answer, we can only expect things to get much worse. from top to bottom, our schools have become over-politicized institutions of indoctrination and mediocrity, intent on coddling every special interest that screams loud enough and so heavily subsidized by an unwilling public that they are a massive drain on an ailing economy. the waste inherent in the uc system alone is staggering and continuing this reckless, agenda driven tradition is what these protests are all about.

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wow you can really make a fucking point, +rep
i mean, that is some convincing shit. my only reply is to argue that the CSU system was ideally intended to help the working class get an education, thereby fueling the intelligent, progressive workforce. discuss.



on another note, the walkout was a great time, good speeches (wish some of those guys could go at it with y'all), and i was stoned as shit the whole time. We even fingerpainted, here's mine:


I know it has almost no point, but c'mon I was really high and had paint all over myself.

Phreaky Goat, I don't think ALL college students are spoiled. I think the ones that are demanding MORE SUBSIDATION
are spoiled.

Lousy parents? Really? My parents were kids during the depression, they were thankful if they got enough to eat. They worked as children to survive. My dad was orphaned and milked cows on a farm BEFORE going to school as an eleven year old so he could eat! My parents did more work as children than most of those protesting students have ever done as young adults.

All of my siblings and I grew up in the 50s and 60s working for our goals. My siblings and friends all worked in high school and while attending college if we weren't dodging bullets in a rice paddy. Snot nose silver spoon whiners get little sympathy from me I'm afraid.

I taught my kids the same things, self reliance and not to expect others to wipe their asses for them. Since when did expecting somebody else to pay for your life become a "right" ? If you want to smoke dope, that's your right to do it. If you want to smoke dope and finger paint while at the same time demanding others pay for it, I'd say get the finger out of your ass and start working on paying for your goals.

Your painting says "let us grow", maybe it should have said, "let us grow up" .

phreakygoat said:

first off, way to make a decent argument needlessly douch-y. You don't know shit about my life, american or not. damn, you riled me up Muhammed!
second, this isn't socialism dude. this is me having to pay a lot of tuition and work all the time and not be able to afford books and struggle to eat (thank god for growin weed). so yeah, sorry if that makes me a leech.

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someone being forced into paying for your college isnt socialism? wow, you really do need an education.

secondly, i didnt mention anything about socialsm...you "douched" that up all on your own.

thirdly, you will have to work and struggle to get through college? blahahahahahahahhahah....thats fucking hilarious. welcome to every college graduates story. except most of us never whined about having to do it. we look back at it as some of the most valuable life lessons we learned. some of us even were forced to work full time, feed a family and had to attend night school for 6 or 8 years to finish....OMG....imagine the horror and social injustice....

(keep sarcasm engaged through next sentence)

so besides you whining like a 9 year old bitch for someone else to pay for it, we are exactly the same.

children.

Rob Roy said:

Phreaky Goat, I don't think ALL college students are spoiled. I think the ones that are demanding MORE SUBSIDATION
are spoiled.

Lousy parents? Really? My parents were kids during the depression, they were thankful if they got enough to eat. They worked as children to survive. My dad was orphaned and milked cows on a farm BEFORE going to school as an eleven year old so he could eat! My parents did more work as children than most of those protesting students have ever done as young adults.

All of my siblings and I grew up in the 50s and 60s working for our goals. My siblings and friends all worked in high school and while attending college if we weren't dodging bullets in a rice paddy. Snot nose silver spoon whiners get little sympathy from me I'm afraid.

I taught my kids the same things, self reliance and not to expect others to wipe their asses for them. Since when did expecting somebody else to pay for your life become a "right" ? If you want to smoke dope, that's your right to do it. If you want to smoke dope and finger paint while at the same time demanding others pay for it, I'd say get the finger out of your ass and start working on paying for your goals.

Your painting says "let us grow", maybe it should have said, "let us grow up" .

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I fuckin love you man! that made me laugh so hard I forgot to feel the sting of your points.

I think what I meant by 'parents fucking up the kids' was exactly as you said, the silver spoon effect. If i didn't mean that before, that's exactly what I mean now...

and although i respect the shit you had to go through back in the day, don't you feel kind of sorry for people who are so detatched from reality that they wouldn't put down their iPhone to dodge a bullet? I mean no kids out here could survive for shit without their amenities. i mean one must pity the fool...

ViRedd said:

The elites who obtain their living as tax consumers, instead of tax producers, need to understand that California is BROKE! There is no more money to be had for subsidized anything. California has a year-to-year budget deficit of 20 Billion dollars and an overall debt of 550 billion. There is no money left to subsidize your education, let alone the education of illegal aliens. High taxation, over regulation and out of control spending is driving businesses, jobs and population out of California into more competitive states. There is NO MORE MONEY TO SUBSIDIZE YOUR EDUCATION. Time to grow up, get a job ... and face your responsibilities as an individual.

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I see your point, very loudly made. I can't refute that CA is potentially too broke to educate itself...
but i am really confused why education is getting such a bad rap by everyone in this discussion. does nobody want the underclass to have a chance at rising up? does nobody care if we resume an educational oligarchy? is college really chopped liver to you people?!
just wondering

jeff f said:

someone being forced into paying for your college isnt socialism? wow, you really do need an education.

secondly, i didnt mention anything about socialsm...you "douched" that up all on your own.

thirdly, you will have to work and struggle to get through college? blahahahahahahahhahah....thats fucking hilarious. welcome to every college graduates story. except most of us never whined about having to do it. we look back at it as some of the most valuable life lessons we learned. some of us even were forced to work full time, feed a family and had to attend night school for 6 or 8 years to finish....OMG....imagine the horror and social injustice....

(keep sarcasm engaged through next sentence)

so besides you whining like a 9 year old bitch for someone else to pay for it, we are exactly the same.

children.

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wow, you are so great to talk with. you really bring that special something to the table, mainly the smell of the festering horse shit that is literally gushing from your mouth.jk jk jk

I'm not even close to saying that I am better off for having a hectic life, although you seem to be. there's no disputing that self-reliance and rewarded efforts are the cornerstones of a well-adjusted individual, so i get your point. I know that this struggle is common, but does that make it any less impactfull in my life? Honestly, I have found that overworking oneself is just a buzzkiller, people shouldn't always be a workerbee in life.

you can accuse me of whining if that's what gets you off, its always funny to me when someone is proud of their ignorance, and enjoys being condescending. so thanks for the laughs, you fuzzy little coinslot.

and also, I LOVE when people are assholes, it really just gets me all fired up. so please keep it coming.

phreakygoat said:

and also, I LOVE when people are assholes, it really just gets me all fired up. so please keep it coming.

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no problem.

now get off the internet, get back to your studies and get a good nights sleep. you are gonna need it....and a job, because i dont think the protests are gonna work out in your favor. you'll thank the adults after you graduate.

good luck to you.

nice. almost too nice......

phreakygoat said:

I can't refute that CA is potentially too broke to educate itself...
but i am really confused why education is getting such a bad rap by everyone in this discussion. does nobody want the underclass to have a chance at rising up? does nobody care if we resume an educational oligarchy? is college really chopped liver to you people?!

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education is anything but chopped liver, but a system of entitlements and government's heavy hand have made a mockery of education in this country. our administrators concern themselves more with politics than academics and our teachers have become so heavily unionized that they needn't teach a thing and they would still be protected from the people's outrage. the joke that is public schooling is seen more as a babysitting service for parents that are too busy or simply unwilling to concern themselves with their offspring's future. higher education has become a perk for those who scream loudest about their supposed victimhood and its curriculum is all too often useless to the student and to society.

higher education is no sure road to success and that underclass you're so worried about would do better to peddle what natural talents they have within a free market than to stand in line for a government mandated and totally useless degree. the idea that college is a necessary step toward the good life has created a society of middle managers and over educated busboys. just how many lawyers and accountants do we really need? those with the drive and an intellect capable of turning a higher education into something fruitful should certainly be given that chance, but such people are few and account for a mere fraction of the millions who enroll in colleges each year as a knee-jerk reaction to graduating high school. true creativity is seldom found in those tired institutions and it is creativity that is needed for progress beyond the mundane. creativity generates more innovation and wealth than any amount of the sort of useless information foisted upon the average student over the course of his college career.

there are certainly those who deserve the chance to achieve the sort of greatness that higher learning affords, but they should be willing to pay the price for that opportunity. the rewards will almost certainly be seen in a monetary gain that will enable them to repay the debts they incur, but the massive expenditures of tax money required to hand that opportunity to those who lack the drive to take it for themselves will never be repaid. it is nothing more than the larcenous waste of throwing someone else's pearls before swine.

undertheice said:

education is anything but chopped liver, but a system of entitlements and government's heavy hand have made a mockery of education in this country. our administrators concern themselves more with politics than academics and our teachers have become so heavily unionized that they needn't teach a thing and they would still be protected from the people's outrage. the joke that is public schooling is seen more as a babysitting service for parents that are too busy or simply unwilling to concern themselves with their offspring's future. higher education has become a perk for those who scream loudest about their supposed victimhood and its curriculum is all too often useless to the student and to society.

higher education is no sure road to success and that underclass you're so worried about would do better to peddle what natural talents they have within a free market than to stand in line for a government mandated and totally useless degree. the idea that college is a necessary step toward the good life has created a society of middle managers and over educated busboys. just how many lawyers and accountants do we really need? those with the drive and an intellect capable of turning a higher education into something fruitful should certainly be given that chance, but such people are few and account for a mere fraction of the millions who enroll in colleges each year as a knee-jerk reaction to graduating high school. true creativity is seldom found in those tired institutions and it is creativity that is needed for progress beyond the mundane. creativity generates more innovation and wealth than any amount of the sort of useless information foisted upon the average student over the course of his college career.

there are certainly those who deserve the chance to achieve the sort of greatness that higher learning affords, but they should be willing to pay the price for that opportunity. the rewards will almost certainly be seen in a monetary gain that will enable them to repay the debts they incur, but the massive expenditures of tax money required to hand that opportunity to those who lack the drive to take it for themselves will never be repaid. it is nothing more than the larcenous waste of throwing someone else's pearls before swine.

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yea what he said.

If you complain about subsidizing higher education, then don't complain when more and more foreigners come in and take whatever decent jobs are left here in the US. It is already happening...

PS - Before you call me a silver-spoon-fed snot nosed punk entitled kid, keep in mind I worked two jobs in high school and one job in college while attempting multiple majors. I have no take on the rest of this debate (which has degenerated) and just wanted to throw in my two cents

undertheice said:

education is anything but chopped liver, but a system of entitlements and government's heavy hand have made a mockery of education in this country. our administrators concern themselves more with politics than academics and our teachers have become so heavily unionized that they needn't teach a thing and they would still be protected from the people's outrage. the joke that is public schooling is seen more as a babysitting service for parents that are too busy or simply unwilling to concern themselves with their offspring's future. higher education has become a perk for those who scream loudest about their supposed victimhood and its curriculum is all too often useless to the student and to society.

higher education is no sure road to success and that underclass you're so worried about would do better to peddle what natural talents they have within a free market than to stand in line for a government mandated and totally useless degree. the idea that college is a necessary step toward the good life has created a society of middle managers and over educated busboys. just how many lawyers and accountants do we really need? those with the drive and an intellect capable of turning a higher education into something fruitful should certainly be given that chance, but such people are few and account for a mere fraction of the millions who enroll in colleges each year as a knee-jerk reaction to graduating high school. true creativity is seldom found in those tired institutions and it is creativity that is needed for progress beyond the mundane. creativity generates more innovation and wealth than any amount of the sort of useless information foisted upon the average student over the course of his college career.

there are certainly those who deserve the chance to achieve the sort of greatness that higher learning affords, but they should be willing to pay the price for that opportunity. the rewards will almost certainly be seen in a monetary gain that will enable them to repay the debts they incur, but the massive expenditures of tax money required to hand that opportunity to those who lack the drive to take it for themselves will never be repaid. it is nothing more than the larcenous waste of throwing someone else's pearls before swine.

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ok i can dig that. i guess in my case I just really get off on learning, and its hard not to want everyone to experience the high of working for knowledge. you do drive a hard bargain tho

dukeofbaja said:

If you complain about subsidizing higher education, then don't complain when more and more foreigners come in and take whatever decent jobs are left here in the US. It is already happening...

PS - Before you call me a silver-spoon-fed snot nosed punk entitled kid, keep in mind I worked two jobs in high school and one job in college while attempting multiple majors. I have no take on the rest of this debate (which has degenerated) and just wanted to throw in my two cents

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wow, i am amazed to find some support on this, right on duke!
of course not to say that you support any of my other ramblings, but i'll take what i can get haha.