Creation vs Evolution vs Whatever Else

Stoney McFried

Well-Known Member
:roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll:


Helping Christians Reconcile God With Science


For many young Christians, the moment they first notice discrepancies in the Biblical tales they've faithfully studied is a rite of passage: e.g., if Adam and Eve were the first humans, and they had two sons - where did Cain's wife come from? The revelation that everything in the Bible may not have happened exactly as written can be startling. And when the discovery comes along with scientific evidence of evolution and the actual age of planet Earth, it can prompt a full-blown spiritual crisis.
That's where Francis Collins would like to step in. A renowned geneticist and former director of the Human Genome Project, Collins is also an evangelical Christian who was the keynote speaker at the 2007 National Prayer Breakfast, and he has spent years establishing the compatibility between science and religious belief. And this week he unveiled a new initiative to guide Christians through scientific questions while holding firm to their faith. (Finding God on YouTube)
After his best-selling The Language of God came out three years ago, Collins began receiving thousands of e-mails - primarily from other Evangelicals - asking questions about how to reconcile scriptural teachings with scientific evidence. "Many of these Christians have been taught that evolution is wrong," Collins explains. "They go to college and get exposed to data, and then they're thrust into personal crises of great intensity. If the church was wrong about the origins of life, was it wrong about everything? Some of them walk away from science or faith - or both."
Collins, 59, who with his mustache and shock of gray hair looks like former U.N. Ambassador John Bolton's cheerful twin, seems genuinely pained by the idea that science could be viewed as a threat to religion, or religion to science. And so he decided to gather a group of theologians and scientists to create the BioLogos Foundation in order to foster dialogue between the two sides. The name - combining bios (Greek for "life") and logos ("the word") - is also what Collins calls his blended theory of evolution and creation, an approach he hopes can replace intelligent design, which he derides as "not a scientific proposal" and "not good theology either."
Through the Washington-based foundation, Collins says he and his colleagues hope to support scholarship that "takes seriously the claims of both faith and science." Its online component, biologos.org, is designed to be a resource for skeptics and nonbelievers who are interested in religious arguments for God's existence. But the primary audience for BioLogos is Collins' own Evangelical community.
As he read through the thousands of e-mails he received from readers of his book, the former NIH scientist noticed that there were 25 or so common questions that his mostly Evangelical correspondents raised. How should Christians respond to Darwin? If God created the universe, who or what created God? Does believing in science mean one can't believe in miracles? What is up with Noah's Ark and the flood? The new website offers answers to these vexing questions and, through those responses lays out the BioLogos theory that God chose to create the world by way of evolution. (Collins plans to build on that work by developing a home-schooling curriculum that can serve as an alternative to the literalist creationism materials widely used by many conservative Evangelical parents.)
A large slice of the questions deal with Genesis, the first book in both Christian and Jewish Scriptures, and the text that explains the creation and population of Earth, and well as the relationship between God and man. Some answers are straightforward, as with the mystery of where Cain's wife came from. "The scientific evidence suggests a dramatically larger population at this point in history," conclude Collins and his colleagues. One possible explanation they offer - an idea that was embraced by C.S. Lewis, among others - is that human-like creatures had evolved to the point where they had the mental capacity to reason; God then endowed them to distinguish between good and evil, and in that way they became "in the image of God."
But on other topics, such as whether Adam and Eve were real people or when humans became creatures with souls, BioLogos offers several possible answers - an approach that is either refreshing or unsatisfying, depending on one's need for certainty. "We cannot say that Adam and Eve were formed as acts of special creation," Collins explains. "That is a troubling conclusion for many people."
"Science can't be put together with a literalist interpretation of Genesis," he continues. "For one thing, there are two different versions of the creation story" - in Genesis 1 and 2 - "so right from the start, you're already in trouble." Christians should think of Genesis "not as a book about science but about the nature of God and the nature of humans," Collins believes. "Evolution gives us the 'how,' but we need the Bible to understand the 'why' of our creation."
 

Stoney McFried

Well-Known Member
You know, I don't mind Christians, when they keep it to themselves!But creationists want everyone to believe,and that's where i get pissy.And I don't need dick, I have the rabbit, lol.
Gawd, Says, Go Get Sum D%@K...... It'll help U 4get About /cHristians :lol:


Jus j/k......:hug:
 

TheHighClub

Active Member
the bible tells you the basics you need to know and guidlines for living but if the bible made everything as simple as 1+1=2 there would me no room for whats most important......FAITH
 

hom36rown

Well-Known Member
Why do we need the bible to give us "guidelines", shouldn't we be able to figure out "guidelines" on our own?
 

jfgordon1

Well-Known Member
the bible tells you the basics you need to know and guidlines for living but if the bible made everything as simple as 1+1=2 there would me no room for whats most important......FAITH
so... your saying it's better that it's vague and contradicts itself ?
 

SOorganic

Well-Known Member
Im pretty convinced that evolution trumps creationism, but im scarred shit-less that there is no higher power and that we are random; which means no after life :O I think creationism is just a way to cope with the fear of death. In all reality, what self respecting scientist will tell you evolution is a hoax???
 

x15

Well-Known Member
I wish i was still able to debate like i used too,but three heart attacks have robbed me of half of what little mind i had left.
sorry to hear this. i hope u get better day by day



I think the reason we were where put on this planet is to learn how to live in peace with each other,and how to live on this planet without destroying it.
yup. i think the best we can do is find others of like mind & move forward :)




The Bible is a blue print that shows us how to do this,honor your father and mother,do not murder,do not commit adultry,do not steal,do not bear false witness against your neighbor,do not covet your neighbors house,wife,male servant,female servant,nor his ox.
yup, the building blocks of society




peace :)
 

x15

Well-Known Member
...Yes women have a period,it it telling men not to have sex with them at this time,whats so wrong with that.It's plain nasty.OPH
i agree. it was for health reasons, to help keep the community healthy.



The husband was the head of the house,and the wife obeyed her husband.Whether you like it or not it is still that way in a marriage

i agree with you, but, we're trying to talk about spiritual matters with those who do not understand such things.

"A person who isn't spiritual doesn't accept the things of God's Spirit, for they are nonsense to him. He can't understand them because they are spiritually evaluated."
- 1 Corinthians 2:14 ISV

"husbands love your wives, wives love your husbands, the body of the husband belongs to the wife, the body of the wife belongs to the husband," seems equal to me
- paraphrase of Colossians 3:19

god doesn't hate women as stoney thinks

this trumps anything stoney posted about god & women:

"God is not a respecter of persons…He does not show partiality or favoritism..."
james 2-1-13

"...all of you are one in the Messiah Jesus, a person is no longer a Jew or a Greek, a slave or a free person, a male or a female..."
- Galatians 3:28

"...a renewal in which there is no distinction between Greek and Jew, circumcised and uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave and freeman, but Christ is all, and in all..."
- Colossians 3:11


but, i better stop before someone calls me love1 :P


peace :)
 

Stoney McFried

Well-Known Member
See, that's the problem.If someone doesn't agree, they're spiritually "lacking." If you don't think God showed favoritism,let's look at some of his favorites..Moses, Abraham,Job,Jesus.Didn't they get some preferential treatment?I think so.Your god plays favorites, for those who don't believe in him must perish.
[SIZE=+1][FONT=Times, Times New Roman, Serif][SIZE=+0]Acts 10:34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons...[/SIZE][/SIZE][/FONT]​
[SIZE=+1][FONT=Times, Times New Roman, Serif][SIZE=+0]Deut. 10:17 For the LORD your God is God of gods, and Lord of lords, a great God, a mighty, and a terrible, which regardeth not persons, nor taketh reward...[/SIZE][/SIZE][/FONT]​
[SIZE=+1][FONT=Times, Times New Roman, Serif][SIZE=+0]Romans 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God.[/SIZE][/SIZE][/FONT]​
[SIZE=+1][FONT=Times, Times New Roman, Serif][SIZE=+0]Galatians 2:6 But of these who seemed to be somewhat, (whatsoever they were, it maketh no matter to me: God accepteth no man's person:) for they who seemed to be somewhat in conference added nothing to me... (cf. Eph. 6:9, Col. 3:25, 1 Peter 1:17)

[/SIZE]
[/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]Some examples of favoritism.
Exodus 20:5-6 (also Dt 5:9-10) [/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments.
[/FONT]




[FONT=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]
[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]Leviticus 26:43b-45 [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]They will pay for their sins because they rejected my laws and abhorred my decrees. Yet in spite of this, when they are in the land of their enemies, I will not reject them or abhor them so as to destroy them completely, breaking my covenant with them. I am the Lord their God. But for their sake I will remember the covenant with their ancestors whom I brought out of Egypt in the sight of the nations to be their God. [/FONT]

[SIZE=+1][FONT=Times, Times New Roman, Serif][SIZE=+0]

Nope, I haven't been trumped yet. And I do think you are welove1.:peace:
[/SIZE]
[/SIZE][/FONT]​
i agree. it was for health reasons, to help keep the community healthy.






i agree with you, but, we're trying to talk about spiritual matters with those who do not understand such things.

"A person who isn't spiritual doesn't accept the things of God's Spirit, for they are nonsense to him. He can't understand them because they are spiritually evaluated."
- 1 Corinthians 2:14 ISV

"husbands love your wives, wives love your husbands, the body of the husband belongs to the wife, the body of the wife belongs to the husband," seems equal to me
- paraphrase of Colossians 3:19

god doesn't hate women as stoney thinks

this trumps anything stoney posted about god & women:

"God is not a respecter of persons…He does not show partiality or favoritism..."
james 2-1-13

"...all of you are one in the Messiah Jesus, a person is no longer a Jew or a Greek, a slave or a free person, a male or a female..."
- Galatians 3:28

"...a renewal in which there is no distinction between Greek and Jew, circumcised and uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave and freeman, but Christ is all, and in all..."
- Colossians 3:11


but, i better stop before someone calls me love1 :P


peace :)
 

the420 apprentice

Well-Known Member
hays anyone ever look in to the sumerian tales of the annunaki and the nebiru, also known as planet x which is approaching for a inner solar system flyby. you tube has alot of stuff, interesting but some is conspiracy theory shit with some of the info. some info i found interesting was a sumerian tablet with the solar system and all its planets and the now approaching planet x. they even new the color of pluto and its make up. how was this possible it raises some good questions.
 

Chase the Bass

Active Member
I just read all 10 pages and saw some great debating. Especially you Stoney. Here's a link that already disproved the copy pasted "10 Facts that Disprove Evolution" http://www.rationalresponders.com/bible_life_ministries_evolution I actually went through each one comparing your answers to the links and you did a pretty spot on job. The link went pretty in depth and used a couple extra points would be handy the next time this "10 Facts that Disprove Evolution" pops up.

Every time a thread like this pops up I can't help but think that both parties are coming from a different direction. The evolutionist spark comes from his mind, while the creationists from his "heart".

As for me? I believe in the idea of a big bang, although we could know so much more. I believe in the creation of stars and then planets, solar systems, galaxies, and so on. I believe that everything evolved from the simplest of organisms.

I have no problem with religions, just the extremists. I think that people are entailed to their own beliefs. If this person believes that God created Earth then who am I to tell him he's wrong? Does his belief of the creation of the universe effect me in any way? Does it really effect him? He lives and I live, and if he's a good Christian then he is probably a good person. I do want to emphasize good Christian. The people that love to go volunteer at homeless shelters and do it out of the goodness of their heart. I'm not saying that atheists are evil bastards. I'm saying that if a religion guides a person to do good things...then is it really that bad?

When I get baked and the topic of my "religious" views comes up I start rambling about the universe, time, reality, the relative perception of each, string theory, quantum theory, and a pinch of New Age babble. I remember when I first learned that time, speed, and gravity, and light were all relative in ways. Like how if you travel at incredibly fast speeds time literally slows down. They (I read this a while ago, maybe NASA?) had two clocks set to the exact same time, and sent one into space to pretty much go as fast as possible for a while. I can't say how fast it went but I assume VERY fast. Eventually the clock came back and less time had elapsed on that clock then the one left on earth. Granted it wasn't anything substantial but different nonetheless. In theory we could travel forward into time with very advanced propulsion technology.

Sorry about that last part getting off topic. I just think it is one of the most awesome things ever.
 

Stoney McFried

Well-Known Member
I've seen it, and I must say I can't believe any of it.I'm no expert, but I know for a fact that a planet of the size they say this Nibiru is would NOT go undetected.Even if it had a low albedo,we would be able to see it with infrared.We would see its effects on the other planets before we saw it.Basically I THINK it would knock some of the planets off course, like billiard balls.Any pone else feel free to elaborate on why it would do that.
hays anyone ever look in to the sumerian tales of the annunaki and the nebiru, also known as planet x which is approaching for a inner solar system flyby. you tube has alot of stuff, interesting but some is conspiracy theory shit with some of the info. some info i found interesting was a sumerian tablet with the solar system and all its planets and the now approaching planet x. they even new the color of pluto and its make up. how was this possible it raises some good questions.
Thanks.
oh and stoney if read most of your stuff on here and you fucking cool in my book.
Thanks.I wish I'd found that, then I could have saved myself a lot of typing.
I just read all 10 pages and saw some great debating. Especially you Stoney. Here's a link that already disproved the copy pasted "10 Facts that Disprove Evolution" http://www.rationalresponders.com/bible_life_ministries_evolution I actually went through each one comparing your answers to the links and you did a pretty spot on job. The link went pretty in depth and used a couple extra points would be handy the next time this "10 Facts that Disprove Evolution" pops up.
I personally am a big bang supporter.SInce humans only experience time in a linear fashion, we can't know for sure what happened.My theory is the big bang was just the rebirth of the universe that exists now from the death of the old.When an explosion occurs,things expand for a time and then collapse.We can observe that when massive stars collapse,in many cases their mass causes them to nova.From the remnants of these stars, new stars are born.We've observed this.I think it happens that way on a larger scale with the whole universe.Do I know for sure?No.Never said I did.
Every time a thread like this pops up I can't help but think that both parties are coming from a different direction. The evolutionist spark comes from his mind, while the creationists from his "heart".

As for me? I believe in the idea of a big bang, although we could know so much more. I believe in the creation of stars and then planets, solar systems, galaxies, and so on. I believe that everything evolved from the simplest of organisms.
It affects me when they expect me to believe what they believe.I don't harm people nor do things like steal, murder, or rape because I have empathy.I don't like to do things to other people that would make me feel bad if it happened to me.I don't need religion.:peace:
I have no problem with religions, just the extremists. I think that people are entailed to their own beliefs. If this person believes that God created Earth then who am I to tell him he's wrong? Does his belief of the creation of the universe effect me in any way? Does it really effect him? He lives and I live, and if he's a good Christian then he is probably a good person. I do want to emphasize good Christian. The people that love to go volunteer at homeless shelters and do it out of the goodness of their heart. I'm not saying that atheists are evil bastards. I'm saying that if a religion guides a person to do good things...then is it really that bad?
Time IS all relative.As humans, we get to experience it in a linear manner.So it's hard for us to comprehend anything that we don't personally experience.Some folks try to figure it out, some make up stories.:joint:
When I get baked and the topic of my "religious" views comes up I start rambling about the universe, time, reality, the relative perception of each, string theory, quantum theory, and a pinch of New Age babble. I remember when I first learned that time, speed, and gravity, and light were all relative in ways. Like how if you travel at incredibly fast speeds time literally slows down. They (I read this a while ago, maybe NASA?) had two clocks set to the exact same time, and sent one into space to pretty much go as fast as possible for a while. I can't say how fast it went but I assume VERY fast. Eventually the clock came back and less time had elapsed on that clock then the one left on earth. Granted it wasn't anything substantial but different nonetheless. In theory we could travel forward into time with very advanced propulsion technology.

Sorry about that last part getting off topic. I just think it is one of the most awesome things ever.
 

hom36rown

Well-Known Member
i agree. it was for health reasons, to help keep the community healthy.






i agree with you, but, we're trying to talk about spiritual matters with those who do not understand such things.

"A person who isn't spiritual doesn't accept the things of God's Spirit, for they are nonsense to him. He can't understand them because they are spiritually evaluated."
- 1 Corinthians 2:14 ISV

"husbands love your wives, wives love your husbands, the body of the husband belongs to the wife, the body of the wife belongs to the husband," seems equal to me
- paraphrase of Colossians 3:19

god doesn't hate women as stoney thinks

this trumps anything stoney posted about god & women:

"God is not a respecter of persons…He does not show partiality or favoritism..."
james 2-1-13

"...all of you are one in the Messiah Jesus, a person is no longer a Jew or a Greek, a slave or a free person, a male or a female..."
- Galatians 3:28

"...a renewal in which there is no distinction between Greek and Jew, circumcised and uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave and freeman, but Christ is all, and in all..."
- Colossians 3:11


but, i better stop before someone calls me love1 :P


peace :)
Thats the thing about the bible, people use it to justify pretty much anything, as it contradicts itself a million times over. You choose to ignore stoneys quotes, and provide these instead, but they are from the exact same book...
 

hom36rown

Well-Known Member
And x15 is not we love1, we love was completely insane(x15 is only mildly ;)), and actually thought HE WAS JESUS.
 

bicycle racer

Well-Known Member
thats one of the things thats scary about organized religion especially the 3 that cause the most problems there books are so vague therefore it can be interpreted in any way you want. intelligent but evil people have been capitalizing on this aspect for thousands of years be it jew christian muslim whatever. the most bloody vicious conflicts are always religion based. there are more than a few holy wars going on now. as einstein said 'there are only two things infinite human stupidity and the universe and im not so sure about the latter'. not word for word but you get the idea.
 

Stoney McFried

Well-Known Member
I don't know, we has reinvented himself countless times on here.He certainly doesn't post any more.I'm usually pretty good at these things.Time will tell.:peace:
And x15 is not we love1, we love was completely insane(x15 is only mildly ;)), and actually thought HE WAS JESUS.
 
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