Could Kelp extracts be a waste of money?

Uncle Ben said:

Is stupidity just way too common ... Sheesh, fuckin' tards!!!!!!!

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okay. time out.

put up or just the fu*k up.

let's see photos of your "garden".

& please dont tell me you grow outdoors.

big yawn.

i bet $100 if anything (cause your avatar looks to be inside) you are tent growing hobbit.

legallyflying said:

So ummm, does that mean your a fan of kelp?

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Personally no, im not a fan of kelp. I use a high P and finish them with them sulfer and acid (this time is citric) along with chelated iron and boron. Ub just made a remark earlier on a different site that made me want to break his hip.
After seeing him call everyone fuckin tards it kinda burned a little more to this point. Im not gonna let a hard headed redneck spoil the good name of hydroponics just cus he went senile and cant afford good shit.

BUD PORN!!!

Last round....






this round.. dual 35 sq. ft. scrogs

^ holy sh*t dude!

i am rarely impressed (you should check out skunkmunkie dude is a beast in the garden) & your setup is ==> wow!

love it. love it. love it. & now we know legalflying has skillz.

uncle ben, you cant even say this ^ guys is : 1) a kid, 2) doesn't know about plant culture or 3) not on your level ===> if you've got not one current pic (last 6 months min) for me ===> fuck off


i always say : grow & show ... not talk shit & be a f*g & eat a bag of di*ks

here's my friend's space. one selction room ...of ten.

& you worship him for the finest beans ...you just dont know it.

Well golly gee, guess one's success at growing a few weeds can be totally attributed to the use of kelp extracts.

Begs the question - if one teaspoon is good, will 3 teaspoons triple my production?

Uncle Ben said:

Looks like somebody has his panties in a wad. Put down the laptop, get off the couch, pull the panty string out of your butt crack and get a life.

See that avatar? That 6" diameter rock hard cola never saw a kelp extract in its life nor did it see any other stupid additive or supplement.

Guys, just cut the bullshit OK? The link's conclusions said it all:


Conclusions from researchers:

1) Plant selection: “…working with resistant varieties seems to be the best solution [to disease resistance].”

2) Environmental conditions: “…soil fertility and production conditions were more important growth and yield determinants than were foliar sprays.”

3) Management techniques: “If proper planting techniques are followed, the use of biostimulants is unwarranted.”

4) Overall assessment: “…treatments are ultimately dependent on multiple plant, soil, and environmental factors, and often have no discernible effects.” “…there appears to be little value in applying these products.”

5) Marketing: “Manufacturers’ claims for the benefits of these products go beyond what is substantiated by the research.” “The number of products now on the market seems to outnumber the published papers.”

These researchers’ conclusions say it all – seaweed extracts are aggressively marketed with little regard for objective, scientific research.

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Wow, I have never seen anyone who has grown a bud that is bigger in diameter than their dick is long

Uncle Ben said:

Well golly gee, guess one's success at growing a few weeds can be totally attributed to the use of kelp extracts.

Begs the question - if one teaspoon is good, will 3 teaspoons triple my production?

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i think its gonna be a majority which is why so many different growers and come forward and siad you claims other than actual NPK content are false and simply a matter of personal ignorance

the hormones and bennies found in kelp extracts can be gotten from many other nutrient sources, but a combination of sources, not all from the same extracted plant

so clean that sandy va j j and enjoy your uniqueness, good for you, you dont need or want kelp in your garden

Thanks gudkarma. I had some more impressive bud shots but any find them for the life of me. That mango was pretty damn sweet, although I did loose some bud to bud rot. It's a really dense strain that also isn't very mold resistant. Not the best combo in the world but damn, I wish I never tossed those genetics.

legallyflying said:

Thanks gudkarma. I had some more impressive bud shots but any find them for the life of me. That mango was pretty damn sweet, although I did loose some bud to bud rot. It's a really dense strain that also isn't very mold resistant. Not the best combo in the world but damn, I wish I never tossed those genetics.

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Answer the question Kelp Mermaid of the Sea. If one teaspoon is good, is 3 gonna increase production 3 fold?

Troll is as troll does. I'm not playing your reindeer games.

UB fuck off.

if i was a mod, you'd get the ban for being a fraud.

i dare you to register at hennepdesk. post every three days, or ban. contribute on every post you make, or ban. show photos every three days, or ban. show your style and give MAD details, or ban.

come on over. play with the big boys. mr hennepdesk will teach you, guide you, and mold you.

only the best stay. can you swing it troll?

legallyflying said:

Thanks gudkarma. I had some more impressive bud shots but any find them for the life of me. That mango was pretty damn sweet, although I did loose some bud to bud rot. It's a really dense strain that also isn't very mold resistant. Not the best combo in the world but damn, I wish I never tossed those genetics.

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what kind of humidity you have?

is that a minisplit up top?

put a pedstal type osc. fan at the far end of the room maybe. i think that same crap fan i use (in your pic too) just doesn't get the job done. my lab is long & rectangular and needs another fan still.

Well I was battling high humidity but not too high, like 50. I bought a bigger dehu. That run was before the mini split. I've got two big oscillators and one fixed fan up top. I also scrub the room with a carbon filter around week 5. The outlet of the scrubber blasts along the floor. It's like a wind tunnel in there.

I also bought a heap filtration unit. A small one that I run near the end of harvest and in the drying tent just to try and keep the spores at bay. No mold problems since those changes.

But man, I wouldn't wish bud rot on anyone

legallyflying said:

Troll is as troll does. I'm not playing your reindeer games.

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Done.......

So heres one thing ive always liked about kelp ...when studying plant nutrition i herd a fact it might be more now but 60 deffernt chemical elements have been found in plant tissue of these 60 only 17 are regarded as essential for plants to function and grow normaly ...I read on the back of B.C powederd kelp that there product has 50 deffernt elements in it what they all are i dont know but at one point they were able to be moved into living plant "kelp" cells without harming or killing this plant so none of them should be toxic to plant life right ...ive skimming through this thread and uncle ben has already brought up a very good point about can the plants absorb theses elements in the form they are in right now ? are they bio avaible i guess is the real Q we whould all like to know ..if not would maybe bacterial break down into somthing more usable kinda like how bone meal or fresh coco dont really give food to the plants right away .....i dont have all the answer im hear to learn and to share what i know just like all of you ...rember the ego is the filter between the mind and your suroundings

since we're dippin in & out of plant culture.

mushshrooms (for cooking in this case) are grown in shit. do you taste it? do you get shit breath when you eat them? is stromium in shit? isn't shit considered bad?

hmmmm...

think about all the chems & ferts sprayed on tobacco. i've never heard a single dirt shleping , fish emulsion using, hippie, smoking his cigs while tending his ganja, complain about how much those smokes taste like ferts & chems.

only assholes like UB fake it & do that & fraud it up like that. i refuse to further acknowledge UB's existence until he joins hennep ...we'll talk there.

other than that... i cant even see how these "toxins" in kelp are issue. what will they do? how will they effect my kind buds? you mean there's no benefit to a plant product used in gardens for hundreds of years (indians/chinese) ?

salts in kelp, OMG please.

how's my UB impression?

good, right?

billy4479 said:

So heres one thing ive always liked about kelp ...when studying plant nutrition i herd a fact it might be more now but 60 deffernt chemical elements have been found in plant tissue of these 60 only 17 are regarded as essential for plants to function and grow normaly ...

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Correct.

...ive skimming through this thread and uncle ben has already brought up a very good point about can the plants absorb theses elements in the form they are in right now ? are they bio avaible i guess is the real Q we whould all like to know ..

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At least someone got it! And no, "we" or they as it were don't want to know. They're basing their conclusions on placebo effects, feelings and such. I asked the couch potato if one tsp. was (supposedly) good, would 3 be mo betta and all he did was dodge the question, which BTW, was a bonafide legitimate question as opposed to some of the noise around here.

Happy gardening to you and stay wise to the lies,
UB

DURRR IF 1 TSP OF 20-20-20 MAKE GOOD PLANT, WILL 3 TSP MAKE 3 GOOD PLANT??????????
Good argument there, UB.

My girlfriend's grandmother lived on the coast and fertilized her gardens ONLY with harvested kelp. For 40 years. She had some damn nice flower arrangements and vegetables. Soil tilth was out of this world due to the organic matter ammended in yearly.

If you're growing in biologically active media, kelp's non-immediately-soluble nutrients will obviously, eventually, become mineralized and available.

I don't know why your dick's all in a bunch because you're in favor of using petrochemical garbage urea and synthetic nutrients. Sure they use MAP/DAP/TSP in agricultural fields, so what. Agribusiness is poisoning us all and we know it.

Fancy bottled kelp extracts may be overpriced, but they aren't snake oil. That'd involve them not actually doing anything. At the very least, they're a source of organic matter to feed the soil microfauna. I wouldn't buy or recommend any of those EXTRACTS, but god damn get some soluble (whole) kelp. Be it in flake, powder form or already dissolved in water.

Untreated kelp is incredibly useful in organic gardening, as a renewable, non-mined source of micronutrients and potassium (We're running out of mined potash.)

Uncle Ben said:

This from another snake oil salesman who IS out to get whatever he can take from his target group.

BTW, do the mods ever take out the trash?

Uncle Ben

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Well th kicked YOU out enough times and somehow you made it back. I don't need to own a store to figure out your a prick. Fuck your hillbilly methods.

Afka said:

I don't know why your dick's all in a bunch because you're in favor of using petrochemical garbage urea and synthetic nutrients. Sure they use MAP/DAP/TSP in agricultural fields, so what. Agribusiness is poisoning us all and we know it.

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.....and there you have it. Another green weeney believing in The Cult of the Green Machine. FYI, I balance my cultural practices between chemicals and organics (the latter being nothing more than a collection of inorganic elements). I have used more organics than you ever will and right now have at least 2 yds. of horse manure stockpiled. Add to that piles of hay and pine needles I use as mulch, a compost bin and 7 bags of pine bark mulch. So don't preach to me about organics or knowing something that isn't true.

Speaking of maintaining 'balance', I just received a soil analysis back from Texas A&M on my veggie garden. I now have a guide, a nutritional marker, as to where to go with plant nutrition as is laid out by university schooled experts, not shysters....... and I quote from the report "do not add phosphorous for at least 5 years in any form, manure or otherwise, only nitrogen." FWIW, the report says that my N is 54 ppm, P is 197 ppm and K is 618 ppm or a real world NPK value of 0.5 - 2 - 6. Time to hit it with some UAN (urea/ammonium nitrate), 33-0-0. It's only natural. pH is a very nice 6.8 having dropped from 8.0 six years ago. That drop in pH was induced by small sulfur applications and a boatload of organic matter additions over the years.

Having said that my position has nothing to do with organics being good or bad...... the issue is value, efficiency, real world available elements and when it comes to hydro land sales - a code of ethics.

Untreated kelp is incredibly useful in organic gardening, as a renewable, non-mined source of micronutrients and potassium (We're running out of mined potash.)

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Bullshit, by using kelp and its extracts, you're mining the oceans of valuable resources and transferring those resources for terrestrial use. Why? So the money grabbers can feed the feel good green wackos that have this neurotic organic and alternative thing going on. You fall for their bullshit hook line and sinker.

The good doctor said it best -

"These researchers’ conclusions say it all – seaweed extracts are aggressively marketed with little regard for objective, scientific research. There is a final concern never addressed, which is the justification for large-scale removal of vegetation from one ecosystem (the marine kelp “forests&#8221 for application to another (terrestrial landscapes). The ecological impacts of increased seaweed harvesting are currently under investigation and the possibility of significant ecosystem damage is real. There is no argument that seaweed products are useful and valuable to humans for the reasons discussed earlier. However, given that there are few documented benefits from applying seaweed extracts to plants, this is not a justifiable nor a sustainable practice. The marketing of such products as “earth friendly” in this context should be repugnant to environmentally conscious consumers."

Any more questions?

I have an idea, instead of a bunch of stoners trying to wrap their heads around nutrient decomposition, processing, and assimilation using the "microbial black box" method. Ergo, I don't know how but the "microorganisms have to process it". Why don't we all concentrate on the SCIENTFICALLY VALID RESULTS? Did anyone bother tO read the links I posted?

I didn't answer the if one is good is three better question as it was assanine. But if the lack of a response somehow detracts from my credibility then I will answer. YES, in one of the studies linked above their was a positive correlation between increased yield and increased concentration of kelp application.

I started this thread to get some real life experiences using kelp as I found the original paper dismissing the benefits intresting. In the abcense of experience, papers discussing the results of controlled experiments are equally valid for influencing my grow room practices. Baseless and unsubstantiated claims "it's all worthless snake oil" have little more credibility than claims of "this product will super charge your plants, blah blah blah". In fact, in this instance they have a great deal less credibility as this no benefit rhetoric flys in the face of valid studies that demonstrate their is benefit.

Is it necessary? I think it depends on individual conditions but it has been shown to be beneficial and I certainly like the idea of applying trace elements via foliar methods due to the complexities of hydroponic nutrient chemistry and management. I've got no beef with people presenting opposing facts and experience but prefer to keep my threads free of continued name calling and baseless, inflammatory claims. I've reported such posts to the mods, they can do what they want about it.

Thanks to all that contributed in a positive fashion.