Connection between 24hr lights & males
- Thread starter videoman40
- Start date
Garden Knowm
The Love Doctor
YOUR A RAPPER?Seems everyones opinions are bs. You all know nothing, I'm the best
skunkushybrid
New Member
In fact, with my grapefruit the guy in the shop said you get 99.9% fem's. Even from a natural hermie it is pos. to get males.
videoman40
Well-Known Member
Hey Buddy, that's impressive, you sure are lucky.
Let's keep our fingers crossed for the other 4 now.
Peace Bro
Let's keep our fingers crossed for the other 4 now.
Peace Bro
skunkushybrid
New Member
What are you asking exactly?
Garden Knowm
The Love Doctor
time is infinite
chips
Active Member
I just looked at your join date and post count. Didn't mean anything by it mate.
Chips
chips
Active Member
and I thought it was only relative to the perceiver.
babygro
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the link Videoman - most interesting read. Unfortunately, you need to read these things through a little and get a feel for the situation. So here's the information you didn't want anyone to know -
1) This grow was done in September 2003 - December 2003. so the best example you've been able to find is now just under 4 years old.
2) The feminised seeds were NIrvana Seeds' Super Girl' and unknown seedbank Blueberry. Probably not two of the best producers of feminised seeds, Nirvana particularly use nasty F2 knock offs for their strains and probably skimp on the production of feminised versions. Blueberry is renowned for being a fickle and odd plant that puts out some quite wierd growth at times, so nothing would surprise me with Blueberry, unless it was an original DJ Shorts version.
3) 'Several males' is wrong - Good news! I have 4 females!
Source link can be supplied, but I'm not linking to another growsite, pm me if you want these links.
Yeah you needed to read the whole thread through. So he got 4 females confirmed and one he claims was a male. What happened to his earlier claim of "4 out of 5 feminized seeds NOT FEMALE!!" ?
4) He never speaks of the fifth plant that was 'supposedly' male, only the 4 that were female. He says later in his diary -
heres the lastest pic... pistils are showin their faces again.. i really messed with these ladies by exposing em to so much damn heat! im hoping i dont see hermies soon!
Source link can be supplied, but I'm not linking to another growsite, pm me if you want these links.
That doesn't sound promising does it? He also had problems at the start of his grow with an out of whack ph in a hydro system -
"My ph problem was sulphur toxicity early in the veg stage... my ph down was a bisulphate additive and it required too much to actually lower it to the desired 5.5-6.0 and ended up giving em too much sulphur."
Source link can be supplied, but I'm not linking to another growsite, pm me if you want these links.
So, if you've learnt anything at all from this thread, you'll know that environment plays a very important part in determining the sex of any plant, not just feminised seeds. We also know that environmental stress of any form can cause plants to start sexual reversal either fully or partially.
It's highly likely, that in this instance - the stress the plants were under at the beginning of their life was responsible for partial or full sex reversal to start and that's why early on he claimed he had 2 and possibly 4 males from 5 feminised seeds. He later claimed he had 4 out of 5 females, with no mention at all about the fifth. So clearly 4 of those plants he earlier claimed were male, did not continue their sexual reversal into flowering and continued and ended up as females.
Want to dimiss what I'm saying here about sex reversal? Explain how he claimed he had 2 possibly 4 males at the beginning and that all bar one turned out female. Good luck with that one.
What happened to the fifth and whether it was a hermie or a reversed sex male he never says. In my opinion that plant was a sex reversal NOT a genetic male plant. The reason I can claim that is as I've repeatedly said on here, the plants that produce feminised seeds do not contain the male chromosome or gene and therefore its impossible for feminised seeds to produce genetic male plants, but still quite possible for full or partial sex reversals to take place, as I've stated previously.
The final piece in the jigsaw for me is that out of all the grow sites, of the thousands of people who've grown plants from feminised seeds, you've only been able to find one example out of thousands of a male plant being produced from feminised seeds and that one was a sex reversal and produced from early feminised seeds from a dubious source.
Where are all these other 'genetic male' offspring from feminised seeds you keep claiming is possible to produce? Surely you can come up with more than one example of this?
You've put up NOTHING to support your view here apart from the usual smoke, mirrors and bullshit.
babygro
Well-Known Member
Well, as far as I'm aware (and I may be wrong about this because I haven't checked on it) the stability factor for plants refers to 'homogeneity'. Homogeneity as I'm sure you're aware is about how closely the phenotypes are in terms of being 'homogenous' ie similar in appearance. Highly stable plants give a high % of stability in appearance, low stability plants can vary considerably in terms of their phenotype.
Sex is gene, chromosome and environment controlled and not part of the 'stablity' factor of hybrids or crosses.
Yes. Feminised seeds are more prone to hermaphroditism for the reasons you give, but not because the seeds themselves are 'unstable' but because they're seeds from a 'hermaphrodite' and therefore carry the genes and chromosomes for hermaphroditism. Even with the most perfectly stable environmental conditions in the world you can still get hermies from feminised seeds, because they contain the genetics for it or are more predisposed to hermaphroditism.
As a postscript, I think feminised seeds are far more reliable today than they were when they first came out.
babygro
Well-Known Member
Not as far as I'm concerned it isn't.
In normal sexual reproduction between a female and male plant the female supplies the X chromosome (it can only supply the X chromosome, female plants DO NOT contain male chromosomes) and the male plant supplies either the X chromosome (in which case the seeds becomes a female) or the Y chromosome (in which case the seed can become male).
When a female plant turns hermie either by environmental stress or by being a genetic hermie in the first place, and produces male flowers, the plant sees those male flowers as just 'flowers', it doesn't differentiate those flowers as being male ones, as it does not contain the male genes or chromosomes.
So when a hermie 'self pollinates' itself, it gets the X chromosome from the ovule and the X chromosome from the male flower pollen, both of which will now produce a female. The seed can also receive the gene or chromsome responsible for hermaphroditism as well.
With the greatest respect, as with Videoman I really do think it's time you put up some substantive information that supports your view and opinion, because otherwise it's just people saying the same things over and over.
Do you not think it's odd that out of all the examples of feminised seed grows that must exist now, the only example Videoman has found is 4 years old and highly likely toe a sexual reversal due to stress rather than a genetic male from a feminised seed.
If it's possible for this to happen, why are there not any more examples of it? Why do we hear constant stories of people getting hermies with feminised seeds, some as many as 2 per pack of 10, yet no males?
I'm not changing my mind anytime soon I'm afraid, I see far too little evidence of what people are claiming to give those views much credibility. Come up with some evidence, some researched information that proves categorically that feminised seeds can produce males, because until that happens I shall continue to beleive what my own research has produced.
videoman40
Well-Known Member
Thats not the only example as you seem to so willingly re-word my statements all the time to suit your needs.
Had you of spent some time over there reading you'd find other grows with the same results, males from femenized seeds.
The point isnt if theres 100 males or 1 male, the debate was if it was possible to get a male frem fem seeds, and I proved my point.
Appearantly you like to change the posters words too, he never said the sexing was a mistake. He clearly stated he also had 4 males. Also, if you did what you so often advise others to do, use the search feature, you would have read several other grows using fem seeds, roducing male plants.
A male from fem seeds, is jsut that....possible, not impossible as you like to preach.
You can write oddles and oddles of paragraphs, all you want, it still does not change the facts. Fem chromosones, male chromosones and hermie traits are all present. the male of course being the least likely. It has to be present, or you couldnt get hermies, after all that is the defenition of a hermie, to display both sexual reproductive organs.
I do also believe that for a male to occur, you need to do something to stress it, and really piss it off. LoL
I don't want to get into a heated debate over this with you, you are certainly entitled to not agree, so lets agree to disagree.....and meet out back and smoke a blunt.
PS, I do agree with skunk, that growing from hermies will degrade the genetic integrity of the strain.
Peace
Had you of spent some time over there reading you'd find other grows with the same results, males from femenized seeds.
The point isnt if theres 100 males or 1 male, the debate was if it was possible to get a male frem fem seeds, and I proved my point.
Appearantly you like to change the posters words too, he never said the sexing was a mistake. He clearly stated he also had 4 males. Also, if you did what you so often advise others to do, use the search feature, you would have read several other grows using fem seeds, roducing male plants.
A male from fem seeds, is jsut that....possible, not impossible as you like to preach.
You can write oddles and oddles of paragraphs, all you want, it still does not change the facts. Fem chromosones, male chromosones and hermie traits are all present. the male of course being the least likely. It has to be present, or you couldnt get hermies, after all that is the defenition of a hermie, to display both sexual reproductive organs.
I do also believe that for a male to occur, you need to do something to stress it, and really piss it off. LoL
I don't want to get into a heated debate over this with you, you are certainly entitled to not agree, so lets agree to disagree.....and meet out back and smoke a blunt.
PS, I do agree with skunk, that growing from hermies will degrade the genetic integrity of the strain.
Peace
Natanis
Active Member
I have certainly enjoyed and learned from this exchange. Thanks to both of you for all the time you put into it! In my opinion I think if you go back a few pages it was stated that it's about dominant chromosomes, not lack of one or the other. They both exist.
Now...
Start a new thread and teach me something else!
Now...
Start a new thread and teach me something else!
chronic luka
Well-Known Member
lol, this post got pretty intense there at the end! It's pretty funny that i've read a couple different post today and scene videoman post in them and babygro as well.. there seems to be some animosity going on from babygro to videoman, and videoman being a true stoner is just like 'whatever' lol.. i love this place... anyways, I've grown successfully 4 times and am currently on my 5th, and of my 4 previous grows all of my plants turned out female.. I do not know what could have caused this environmentally or stress wise, but i can tell you what I did during the grow and you can take from it what you will.. or not take anything makes no difference to me!
So, Sprouted seeds in a pill bottle between moistened cotton balls with a desk lamp above it to make it get nice and humid in the pill bottle... only takes about a day for any of my seeds to sprout, sometimes less! (Though I did have trouble with Blueberry.. seems to be a harder strain to grow probably for more expereinced veterans.. but oh how i love blueberry.. sigh) anyways, after sprouted, put in to a nice big ol' pot (i dislike having to transplant.. i say stick in in the dirt and let it grow!) and I usually put 4-6 Jobes fertilizer spikes in the dirt halfway between the center of the pot and the walls of the bucket, so i guess a quarter ways from the side of the bucket? anyways, i like using the Jobes spikes because they have some pretty nice nitrogen content, something like 13% i believe?
Also, I keep my light on for about 18/6 throughout veg growth, then switch to 12/12..
I have some organic nutrients too.. I don't start using nutes till after it gets a couple real sets of leaves, at which point i'll switch to 25% strength, and generally increase 25% each week till at full 100%, which will continue till about 2-3 weeks before harvest (as per my taste preference)..
and so far just doing that has gotten me 100% females so far, knock on wood lol.. anyways, nice post later guys!
So, Sprouted seeds in a pill bottle between moistened cotton balls with a desk lamp above it to make it get nice and humid in the pill bottle... only takes about a day for any of my seeds to sprout, sometimes less! (Though I did have trouble with Blueberry.. seems to be a harder strain to grow probably for more expereinced veterans.. but oh how i love blueberry.. sigh) anyways, after sprouted, put in to a nice big ol' pot (i dislike having to transplant.. i say stick in in the dirt and let it grow!) and I usually put 4-6 Jobes fertilizer spikes in the dirt halfway between the center of the pot and the walls of the bucket, so i guess a quarter ways from the side of the bucket? anyways, i like using the Jobes spikes because they have some pretty nice nitrogen content, something like 13% i believe?
Also, I keep my light on for about 18/6 throughout veg growth, then switch to 12/12..
I have some organic nutrients too.. I don't start using nutes till after it gets a couple real sets of leaves, at which point i'll switch to 25% strength, and generally increase 25% each week till at full 100%, which will continue till about 2-3 weeks before harvest (as per my taste preference)..
and so far just doing that has gotten me 100% females so far, knock on wood lol.. anyways, nice post later guys!
babygro
Well-Known Member
Based on what exactly? Your or this other persons 'opinion'? Come up with something a little more substantive if you want your opinion to be treated with any credibility.
If, and it is an if, there's some doubt amongst some quarters, but the majority do agree, Canna uses the same x/y chromosome system that mammals use, then as I've said already and I'll say it once again, females do not produce the male chromosome. If a herm is produced from a genetic female, then that plant does not contain male chromsomes and therefore cannot produce male offspring.
It's nothing to do with dominant chromosomes at all.
VirginHarvester
Well-Known Member
In the words of a most famous American and true stoner, can't we all just get along?
Babygro, I'm currently germing some fem'd seeds and have three fem'd plants in veg now. If I were reading you correctly is it that you have a lot of confidence in fem'd seeds staying mostly female, or that you have a lot of confidence most fem'd seeds stay completely female?
I could live with a few seeds on part of the plant... like a branch of seeds- that would be ideal. What I can't bare is the thought of a plant that releases pollen turning most or all of my entire yield to seed weed.
Babygro, I'm currently germing some fem'd seeds and have three fem'd plants in veg now. If I were reading you correctly is it that you have a lot of confidence in fem'd seeds staying mostly female, or that you have a lot of confidence most fem'd seeds stay completely female?
I could live with a few seeds on part of the plant... like a branch of seeds- that would be ideal. What I can't bare is the thought of a plant that releases pollen turning most or all of my entire yield to seed weed.
babygro
Well-Known Member
Well, I beleive this question has been answered in the many pages of information this thread contains. Without either re-writing or re-reading large swathes of information, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you've not fully understood any or some of this discussion. That's fair enough - this isn't a particularly easy discussion for less experienced growers to understand.
It's not really a question of 'my confidence' in feminised seeds. Feminised seeds per se behave slightly differently to normal seeds due to their parentage.
Feminised seeds are to all intents and purposes produced from self pollinating hermaphrodite plants, as opposed to 'regular' seeds that are produced from a male plant pollinating a female plant.
Because of this difference, feminised seeds are much more prone to producing hermaphrodite plants either through genetics or environmental influences than regular seeds that can only produce hermaphrodite plants via environmental factors. So that means feminised have two chances to produce herm's rather than standard seeds one chance.
This is precisely the reason that people growing feminised seeds get more hermaphrodite plants than people growing from standard or regular seeds, this is a statistical fact and not my opinion.
Just because feminised seeds *can* produce more herms than standard seeds, doesn't automatically mean you'll get some.
For these reasons, anyone growing feminised seeds should watch their plants extremely carefully for signs of male flowers, because they can pop up quite easily without you noticing and I've heard many stories of annoyed growers picking seeds out of their 'supposed' sensi bud because they missed a male flower growing half way down.
Don't be scared of feminised seeds, they have an important part to play in producing mostly female plants for people who simply do not have the space, resources or environment to grow out lots of plants and throw up to 50% of them away that turn out male. You just need to watch plants grown from feminised seeds much more closely for male flowers than standard or regular ones - that's the price you pay.