Companies are entitled to make vaccination a condition of employment.

Bagginski said:

Sorry...I should have said “never had a *real* job, eh?”

You have no idea how completely hijacked you are...but too bad for you, you make sure everyone *else* knows: you bark on cue, you bark in sync, and you stay on script. Only experience can teach you now....

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Lol like I said you just don't get it. And I feel sorry for you. Your right I don't have a big tech job, I don't work for amazon, facebook, google, I'm not a lawyer, don't run a big business, don't work for any of those big banks and never will. Im a regular american. I do have a real job. A honest american job. Work as an electrician for 11 years, hopes of opening my own business. Been busy as hell.
It's you who has been lead astray. My ideals haven't changed. There the same I've always fought for.
Your mind has been twisted. The left just keeps going further and further left. But you say we're the brainwashed. Quit getting your news off facebook memes.

Chemdog1989 said:

Lol like I said you just don't get it. And I feel sorry for you. Your right I don't have a big tech job, I don't work for amazon, facebook, google, I'm not a lawyer, don't run a big business, don't work for any of those big banks and never will. Im a regular american. I do have a real job. A honest american job. Work as an electrician for 11 years, hopes of opening my own business. Been busy as hell.
It's you who has been lead astray. My ideals haven't changed. There the same I've always fought for.
Your mind has been twisted. The left just keeps going further and further left. But you say we're the brainwashed. Quit getting your news off facebook memes.

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If I were hiring an electrical contractor this summer, I'd ask if they have been vaccinated. Its a matter of workplace safety. I don't give a shit about your beliefs. Neither does the virus, dummy. It's not about you, it's about protecting others from you.

Chemdog1989 said:

Lol like I said you just don't get it. And I feel sorry for you. Your right I don't have a big tech job, I don't work for amazon, facebook, google, I'm not a lawyer, don't run a big business, don't work for any of those big banks and never will. Im a regular american. I do have a real job. A honest american job. Work as an electrician for 11 years, hopes of opening my own business. Been busy as hell.
It's you who has been lead astray. My ideals haven't changed. There the same I've always fought for.
Your mind has been twisted. The left just keeps going further and further left. But you say we're the brainwashed. Quit getting your news off facebook memes.

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How do you know he is 'left'?

Also, what do you define 'left' as?

Chemdog1989 said:

Your mind has been twisted. The left just keeps going further and further left. But you say we're the brainwashed. Quit getting your news off facebook memes.

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Sure, sure...watch your step, child

Fogdog said:

If I were hiring an electrical contractor this summer, I'd ask if they have been vaccinated. Its a matter of workplace safety. I don't give a shit about your beliefs. Neither does the virus, dummy. It's not about you, it's about protecting others from you.

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The vaccine only protects yourself. It protects against covid the disease, not transmission.

Dryxi said:

The vaccine only protects yourself. It protects against covid the disease, not transmission.

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We don't know that yet.

Pfizer Vaccine’s Effect on Transmission Still Unknown, FDA Says

Pfizer expects to report data on whether or not its vaccine stops virus transmission in the first quarter of 2021, Chief Executive Officer Albert Bourla said on Tuesday at a press briefing held by the International Federation of Pharmaceutical Manufacturers & Associations.

The scientific community is showing appropriate caution. If it's like other vaccines, then it will prevent transmission but I think the authorities are quite right about waiting for data before drawing a conclusion.

Just saying, you are jumping the gun about saying the vaccine does not reduce transmission. I don't know where you got that idea. A cursory look at the news would tell you that we don't know. It's not really an issue right now, because nobody is vaccinated. By the time the vaccine is available to everybody we will know. Maybe then I'll choose othewise.

Until I'm shown that the vaccine does not prevent transmission to a meaningful level, I will assume it does. Why should I take any risk when I can hire somebody who has been vaccinated? Fuck people's beliefs about vaccines. They can go work somewhere else, if they can find a job.

Fogdog said:

We don't know that yet.

Pfizer Vaccine’s Effect on Transmission Still Unknown, FDA Says

Pfizer Vaccine’s Effect on Transmission Still Unknown, FDA Says

Pfizer Inc.’s Covid-19 vaccine prevents symptomatic cases of the virus, but it’s not clear if the shot keeps the disease from being transmitted, U.S. Food and Drug Administration staff found in a report issued Tuesday.

www.bloomberg.com

Pfizer expects to report data on whether or not its vaccine stops virus transmission in the first quarter of 2021, Chief Executive Officer Albert Bourla said on Tuesday at a press briefing held by the International Federation of Pharmaceutical Manufacturers & Associations.

The scientific community is showing appropriate caution. If it's like other vaccines, then it will prevent transmission but I think the authorities are quite right about waiting for data before drawing a conclusion.

Just saying, you are jumping the gun about saying the vaccine does not reduce transmission. I don't know where you got that idea. A cursory look at the news would tell you that we don't know. It's not really an issue right now, because nobody is vaccinated. By the time the vaccine is available to everybody we will know. Maybe then I'll choose othewise.

Until I'm shown that the vaccine does not prevent transmission to a meaningful level, I will assume it does. Why should I take any risk when I can hire somebody who has been vaccinated? Fuck people's beliefs about vaccines. They can go work somewhere else, if they can find a job.

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I mean in the study they did show that people with the vaccine had the virus dna when tested in the nose etc. Difference is they didn't end up going to a hospital for sickness. So to say it stops transmission as a reason for us to all get the vaccine is also jumping the gun.

edit: Twiv - episode 696 (Timestamp: 1:21:00ish) They answer this very subject.
*1:29:40 common cold coronaviruses have population immunity to disease and yet we still transmit it every season without getting sick.
But we will know soon enough, both vaccine manufactures have tests in the works to test transmission.

Dryxi said:

I mean in the study they did show that people with the vaccine had the virus dna when tested in the nose etc. Difference is they didn't end up going to a hospital for sickness. So to say it stops transmission as a reason for us to all get the vaccine is also jumping the gun.

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Yes, tracked only how many vaccinated people became sick with Covid-19. The study was not designed to test if the vaccine could stop transmission. I don't dispute that and agree that the CDC is appropriately cautious about the effect the vaccine has on transmission.

It's a moot point because I'll have data available about transmission by the time the vaccine is widely available. Until then, every workplace must do what it can to prevent transmission the old fashioned way -- masks, social distancing, upgraded air handling in facilities, temperature checks, contact tracing and so forth. If the vaccine were widely available, as an employer who is concerned with safety in MY workplace, I'd require everybody to be vaccinated until better information is available. This is about MY risk of losing one of MY workers and I'm all about reducing risk wherever I can. We never have enough data and I would set a cautious safety policy. I'd still require PPE and other safety measures in addition to vaccination when it becomes available to us until we have better information.

My message to anybody who objects to getting vaccinated without a good reason is: Fuck your beliefs. Vaccines are safe and effective. Go find another place to work.

Other than blunders when the polio vaccine was first released what other major problems have vaccines caused in the last hundred years? I can't find many of substance so why are so people hesitant to be inoculated? Is it simply "my body my life" or is there more to it. If the medical community felt there were significant risks in our new vaccines why would so many prominent governmental officials be risking harm in front of the cameras? Has it ever been proven that vaccines were definitive factor in the severity and numbers of children afflicted with autism? The idiots refusing to vaccinate their children were basically led by dimwitted Hollywood actresses and soccer moms but was there anything of substance that their objections were based on?

Seriously help me out Rob.. what the heck is legal fiction? People pretending to be powered in rights we don't have such as what? So Massachusetts is commonly known as the birthplace of the public school system is that what you mean by having school forced apon the public. Do you mean public schools? I know what my rights are. You can't always afford to protect your rights in this legal system or any other but the rights are there and you can contest violation of them should you please. I know I have the right to own and possess firearms because that right was given to me by the second amendment. They are always trying to trample on those rights but instead of facing them head on they are going into the back door. Massachusetts has always been a staunch supporter of a woman's right to choose and pro-choice. I don't see that right being trampled on in this state.
I really am serious my friend what you are diatribe against Massachusetts is based on. I'm not disagreeing with you that this state sucks big time and I don't feel the need to defend it but I am curious so hook a brother up.

"The State of Massachusetts is just a legal fiction, it's really just people pretending to be empowered with rights you don't have. Like a religious cult, except more dangerous and more widely accepted by people who embrace two opposing beliefs at once. It was the first State to force government schools on it's populace, a real bastion of freedom. "

Rottedroots said:

I know I have the right to own and possess firearms because that right was given to me by the second amendment.

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Nature (reality) gave you the right to defend yourself. Your right to defend yourself can be described on a piece of paper, but it didn't come from other people or from pieces of paper.

It might be a good idea to discern rights from revocable privileges.

Rottedroots said:

I don't feel the need to defend it but I am curious so hook a brother up.

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The first step towards speaking truth is calling things by their correct names. When you understand that, you can unhook from the lies and after the lies are gone, only truth remains.

A "State" is a legal fiction and has no more rights than any person does, It would be impossible for a "State" to have any more rights than any person has and for government to also be founded in "equality and consent". That can be demonstrated thru simple logic and basic arithmetic.

People have been lied to all their lives, by other people who claim what I've said above isn't true. All politics (a coercion based means of controlling people, using offensive force as the primary means) is based in a lie and that is inescapable.

People don't like it when their bubble is popped, sort of like the dismay children experience when they suspicion Santa may be a fake. Tantrums often ensue.

Your somehow under the impression that I don't understand the difference between the rights given to me by man and the rights I have because I'm a man. The natural and unalienable rights I have to defend myself aren't given to me by the constitution the government or cultural norms. The constitution may give me the right to carry a firearm on a state and federal level but should those entities choose to revoke those rights it only means they have done so on paper not in reality. So your the only one who hasn't drank the Kool-Aid? Apparently my options are more limited than yours. I don't have the luxury to move to Montana and declare myself free of federal taxes and claim to be a sovereign citizen. I don't know what bubble it is that you think you popped but you haven't popped anything here. I have so much trouble following your nonsensical diatribe. Do some of that basic math of yours and tell me why I have apparently accepted that states rights Trump my rights. Better yet tell me how you have freed yourself from those who take your rights everyday.

Rottedroots said:

Your somehow under the impression that I don't understand the difference between the rights given to me by man and the rights I have because I'm a man. The natural and unalienable rights I have to defend myself aren't given to me by the constitution the government or cultural norms. The constitution may give me the right to carry a firearm on a state and federal level but should those entities choose to revoke those rights it only means they have done so on paper not in reality. So your the only one who hasn't drank the Kool-Aid? Apparently my options are more limited than yours. I don't have the luxury to move to Montana and declare myself free of federal taxes and claim to be a sovereign citizen. I don't know what bubble it is that you think you popped but you haven't popped anything here. I have so much trouble following your nonsensical diatribe. Do some of that basic math of yours and tell me why I have apparently accepted that states rights Trump my rights. Better yet tell me how you have freed yourself from those who take your rights everyday.

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You own you, I own me. Start there.