Coco plants drooping, help needed

Armyofsprout

Armyofsprout

Well-Known Member
Hey guys I have 14 plants in coco/perlite right now under two 600W HLG LEDs in a 4x4 and they’ve been going back and forth between doing ok and drooping. This is my first time running coco so I’m trying to get watering figured out. I can’t figure out if I’m under or overwatering.

Temps: 75-80F lights on, 70F lights off
Medium: coco brick buffered with calmag and mixed with 30-40% perlite
Pot size: 3-5 gallons sitting on pot risers so they don’t sit in runoff.
PH: 5.9

Currently going on 5 weeks from seed...

I water every 1-2 days. People say you can’t overwater but the more I was watering the more issues I was having and they seemed to perk up more letting the coco dry a little. I also have an algae problem I can’t get rid of and I have been mixing H2O2 into my feeds.

i mixed in come myco into my feed and I think that hurt me tho, they started drooping after the last feed with that. I let them dry out for two days with no improvement so I just watered again with plain water and florakleen earlier and hopefully that helps. I’m hoping they don’t have root rot or something.
 

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Rurumo

Rurumo

Well-Known Member
Tell us about the lights. Distance to canopy? Are they at 100%. Also have you moved them closer to the plants recently? How long have the plants been under them? Coco can be tough your first time until it "clicks" with you. How long have your plants been in those containers, were they transplanted recently? It's highly unlikely that you are overwatering them unless they are recent transplants. What PPMs are you running? You should be feeding them every time you "water" them. Lastly, what is your water like to begin with? Do you know the alkalinity, hardness, and PH? I only ask to eliminate it as a factor. Not necessary to use h202, coco can develop a thriving microbiome even while using mineral salts.
 
Armyofsprout

Armyofsprout

Well-Known Member
Rurumo said:
Tell us about the lights. Distance to canopy? Are they at 100%. Also have you moved them closer to the plants recently? How long have the plants been under them? Coco can be tough your first time until it "clicks" with you. How long have your plants been in those containers, were they transplanted recently? It's highly unlikely that you are overwatering them unless they are recent transplants. What PPMs are you running? You should be feeding them every time you "water" them. Lastly, what is your water like to begin with? Do you know the alkalinity, hardness, and PH? I only ask to eliminate it as a factor. Not necessary to use h202, coco can develop a thriving microbiome even while using mineral salts.
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the lights aren’t at 100%. I just turned them up a bit. They were at around 60% and I just turned them to up about 80% or so. The light is about maybe 24 in away. I just raised them a couple days ago.

I use tap water. My city tap water comes out at about 150ppm and about 7.5ph which I ph down of course. I haven’t been measuring my PPM but I know right now I’m feeding at about a 2.5 EC. Am I over feeding? I’m going by fox farm feeding schedule

im using fox farm trio which I was feeding at full strength and I water maybe 4x a week until runoff.

They aren’t fresh transplants. They have been in those pots for about three weeks and have been growing steadily as I fix issues and learn coco along the way. I started them off in soil in solo cups and then transplanted to coco.
 
curious2garden

curious2garden

Well-Known Mod
Staff member
Armyofsprout said:
Hey guys I have 14 plants in coco/perlite right now under two 600W HLG LEDs in a 4x4 and they’ve been going back and forth between doing ok and drooping. This is my first time running coco so I’m trying to get watering figured out. I can’t figure out if I’m under or overwatering.

Temps: 75-80F lights on, 70F lights off
Medium: coco brick buffered with calmag and mixed with 30-40% perlite
Pot size: 3-5 gallons sitting on pot risers so they don’t sit in runoff.
PH: 5.9

Currently going on 5 weeks from seed...

I water every 1-2 days. People say you can’t overwater but the more I was watering the more issues I was having and they seemed to perk up more letting the coco dry a little. I also have an algae problem I can’t get rid of and I have been mixing H2O2 into my feeds.

i mixed in come myco into my feed and I think that hurt me tho, they started drooping after the last feed with that. I let them dry out for two days with no improvement so I just watered again with plain water and florakleen earlier and hopefully that helps. I’m hoping they don’t have root rot or something.
Click to expand...
You are severely under watering. You can't really overwater coco unless like @Rurumo said you haven't developed a root structure. Water daily or more. Stop using H2O2, use pool shock if you need to clear algae. Hydrogen Peroxide will burn, unless you know exactly what dilution to use and only use it as a Hail Mary for overwatering. Do a search for pool shock for cloning and use at that strength. Best of luck getting back on track.
 
F

Fruity420

Well-Known Member
Armyofsprout said:
I haven’t been measuring my PPM but I know right now I’m feeding at about a 2.5 EC. Am I over feeding? I’m going by fox farm feeding schedule

im using fox farm trio which I was feeding at full strength and I water maybe 4x a week until runoff.
Click to expand...
2.5 EC?? That’s crazy, I’m surprised they don’t look worse.

I’d run through some 06.-0.8, keep it going until the runoff is around 1.0.

1.0 EC is about right for veg, maybe less in most cases or sometimes a little more, but 2.5 would fry most things, I’ve grown melons on less

I run 0.7-1.0 during veg
 
Armyofsprout

Armyofsprout

Well-Known Member
Fruity420 said:
2.5 EC?? That’s crazy, I’m surprised they don’t look worse.

I’d run through some 06.-0.8, keep it going until the runoff is around 1.0.

1.0 EC is about right for veg, maybe less in most cases or sometimes a little more, but 2.5 would fry most things, I’ve grown melons on less

I run 0.7-1.0 during veg
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2.5 EC is what the actual feeding schedule says for FF and what various others have recommended around this stage of veg.
 
Armyofsprout

Armyofsprout

Well-Known Member
curious2garden said:
You are severely under watering. You can't really overwater coco unless like @Rurumo said you haven't developed a root structure. Water daily or more. Stop using H2O2, use pool shock if you need to clear algae. Hydrogen Peroxide will burn, unless you know exactly what dilution to use and only use it as a Hail Mary for overwatering. Do a search for pool shock for cloning and use at that strength. Best of luck getting back on track.
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i use 3%H2O2 and then I even dilute that a lot at 2 tsp per gal. They actually got better after I started H2O2 treatment. But I will try to fix my watering schedule. I will water again in the morning.
 
F

Fruity420

Well-Known Member
I can promise you, feeding 2.5EC is not sensible and you’d struggle to find anyone on this site or anywhere who successfully veges cannabis feeding that high, even in bloom it’s absolutely unnecessary and almost certainly detrimental.

Pure coco, this gets 1.0 EC, few weeks into flower out in full sunshine.

2.5 EC is toxic I’m sorry.
 

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dragnit

dragnit

Well-Known Member
I sometimes water 2 times a day with low dose. The old saying that you can't over water using coco still goes in my book.
 
curious2garden

curious2garden

Well-Known Mod
Staff member
Armyofsprout said:
i use 3%H2O2 and then I even dilute that a lot at 2 tsp per gal. They actually got better after I started H2O2 treatment. But I will try to fix my watering schedule. I will water again in the morning.
Click to expand...
At that dilution H2O2 won't touch algae and it doesn't last as long as pool shock either. By pool shock I'm referring to Calcium Hypochlorite, not household bleach which is Sodium Hypochlorite and can potentially cause lockout due to the Sodium ion.
 
Armyofsprout

Armyofsprout

Well-Known Member
Fruity420 said:
I can promise you, feeding 2.5EC is not sensible and you’d struggle to find anyone on this site or anywhere who successfully veges cannabis feeding that high, even in bloom it’s absolutely unnecessary and almost certainly detrimental.

Pure coco, this gets 1.0 EC, few weeks into flower out in full sunshine.

2.5 EC is toxic I’m sorry.
Click to expand...
i flushed my worst two in a low EC nute solution and brought the run off down to about 0.9EC. I’ll see what happens.
 
R

roboquaid

Active Member
Did you ever find out what caused this?
I'm having similar issues for the 4th time round now and I still can't work out what's going on.
I'm at a point now where I'm thinking it's the transpiration rates are different under led lights than what they are under hps.
So in theory if plants aren't transpiring properly then that would cause water to build up in the plant and start drowning?? And that would look like overwatering issues?
I find things hard to describe sometimes but that's the best I can come up with?
Please let me know if you ever worked out what was going on.
Thanks.
 
B

Blazin Budz

Well-Known Member
Fruity420 said:
I can promise you, feeding 2.5EC is not sensible and you’d struggle to find anyone on this site or anywhere who successfully veges cannabis feeding that high, even in bloom it’s absolutely unnecessary and almost certainly detrimental.

Pure coco, this gets 1.0 EC, few weeks into flower out in full sunshine.

2.5 EC is toxic I’m sorry.
Click to expand...
You dont know what you're talking about. 2.5 EC is fine with LED's/Quantum Boards. He can crank it up to as high as 3.5 before he starts to have nutrient problems. Go check out GrowMoreStress less channel on youtube. He goes from clone to finish with 3.0 EC with LED's. Check out his Tropicana Cherry grow. Some of the most beautiful bud you'll ever see.

OP your problem is light intensity. You need to crank your temps up to 85F and humidity to 75% RH to get proper transpiration rates. Look up VPD and find a good chart. Pulsegrow.com has a pretty good one. LED's dont put out IR heat like HPS do so you need to crank temps up to get the leaf temperature to around 82F. Get the photone app and check your PPFD while you're at it. Its a pretty accurate PPFD meter for a free app. I'd turn the lights back down to 60% for now.

I use Quantum Boards with COCO and have went through all this before. The diodes are too tight on these boards causing a shitty spread. It makes it hard for me to even recommend QB's to anyone even though HLG is a great company. I'll definitely be upgrading to bar style LED's next time I purchase lights.
 
VincenzioVonHook

VincenzioVonHook

Well-Known Member
Blazin Budz said:
You dont know what you're talking about. 2.5 EC is fine with LED's/Quantum Boards. He can crank it up to as high as 3.5 before he starts to have nutrient problems. Go check out GrowMoreStress less channel on youtube. He goes from clone to finish with 3.0 EC with LED's. Check out his Tropicana Cherry grow. Some of the most beautiful bud you'll ever see.

OP your problem is light intensity. You need to crank your temps up to 85F and humidity to 75% RH to get proper transpiration rates. Look up VPD and find a good chart. Pulsegrow.com has a pretty good one. LED's dont put out IR heat like HPS do so you need to crank temps up to get the leaf temperature to around 82F. Get the photone app and check your PPFD while you're at it. Its a pretty accurate PPFD meter for a free app. I'd turn the lights back down to 60% for now.

I use Quantum Boards with COCO and have went through all this before. The diodes are too tight on these boards causing a shitty spread. It makes it hard for me to even recommend QB's to anyone even though HLG is a great company. I'll definitely be upgrading to bar style LED's next time I purchase lights.
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3.5 EC? Just no. I agree that two 600w LEDs in a 4x4 is ludicrous though.
 
B

Blazin Budz

Well-Known Member
VincenzioVonHook said:
3.5 EC? Just no. I agree that two 600w LEDs in a 4x4 is ludicrous though.
Click to expand...
3.5 would start causing problems is what I was saying. But you can easily run 3.0 EC with coco all day under LED's. This site is way behind in the game. There are whole forums and some of the best growers on Instagram running 3.0 EC from the day they plant their clones to the day they chop. Go to Athenas website and check their pro line feed schedule. Same with Front Row ag, Floraflex, crop salt etc.

Go to THCFarmer and see if anyone complains about running 2.5 EC. Its not OP's problem at all.

And you're right, 2 600W QB's in a 4x4 is way overkill. He only needs 1 but he'll still have similar problems unless he gets his VPD on point.
 
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