COCO COIR POT 3 GAL Question

I have heard of people growing in 2 gallon containers with COCO COIR through flower. mine are in 3 gallon containers but as you can see they are not filled to the top. if you have grown in coco, can you let me know if I need to transplant up to 5 gallon or if I can ride it out in these pots. my roots are starting to grow out of the bottom of the pots, but I have heard from many people that this is fine with coco coir. should I just remove the plant, add coco to the bottom and ride it out in the three gallon?

2. when should I flip these? I have Girl Scout Cookies and Fire OG and Skywalker OG. all three strains are my first grow. I am planning on flipping soon because sex is now showing on all

PPM was right at 650 last feeding
fed last night at 5.8 PH

It honestly depends when u flip I grow in coco and use it 30 gallon pots make sure there's enough room for the stretch at beginning of flowering and never be afraid to up that pot bigger root system bigger plant

But that's just my two cents I use huge pots someone else will have better input

K kinda looks like u got a deficiency what's ur starting water e.c? Is it tap water ..r.o water ?? And ur sure ur pH meter is calibrated correctly ? I'd check and if ur starting water e c is like 0.4ish and ur pH meter is calibraTed I would try checking the pH and e.c or ur root area could possibly need a flush at a lower e.c

Chrissa said:

K kinda looks like u got a deficiency what's ur starting water e.c? Is it tap water ..r.o water ?? And ur sure ur pH meter is calibrated correctly ? I'd check and if ur starting water e c is like 0.4ish and ur pH meter is calibraTed I would try checking the pH and e.c or ur root area could possibly need a flush at a lower e.c

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hi there, thanks for the input, I use a PPM meter. I don't check the EC. I use 80 percent distilled water and 20 percent tap, my starting PPM is usually around 50 - 80. I then add house and garden A 2.5 mil, B 2.5 mil, root exculerator .8 mil, cal mag 2.5mil silica 2.5 mil my ending PPM is about 650.

my PH is adjusted to 5.8, but I am beginning to think even lower would be better, maybe 5.6-5.7 because the COCO is naturally higher. I adjust my PH meter every other feeding using General Hydroponics solution PH 7. My ph pen is CHECKER by hanna

the HPS light may be the issue, as it drowns out the deeper greens, all of my new growth is a lighter color green. initially there was a deficiency due to feeding at 6.1 PH, but since I have lowered it and adjusted my PPM to 750 the plants seem to have more vigorous growth. these were about 8 inches when transplanted on 12/2 and are roughly 20 inches now, and starting to branch out. clones sat for 10 days waiting for my grow room to be set up.

what deficiency are you seeing? or is it the color of the leaves making you draw this conclusion? your help is greatly appreciated

Chrissa said:

It honestly depends when u flip I grow in coco and use it 30 gallon pots make sure there's enough room for the stretch at beginning of flowering and never be afraid to up that pot bigger root system bigger plant

But that's just my two cents I use huge pots someone else will have better input

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30 gallons of COCO COIR just for one plant? you must have some trees inside. that is intense, I could fit one or two 30 gallon pots in my room, but don't have the height to accommodate.

No I understand the hps making the colour in the picture off I'm talking about the leaves curling upward.. what r ur Temps / humidity.. if ur pH is between 5.6 to 6.1ish ur plant will be fine 5.8 is optimal in coco bottom line.. I'm not to familiar with ppm.. someone else can explain better in that sense.. using distilled water Is only going to make things worse coco works best with tap water ..I would add calmag first then mix ur tank very well check the ppm again and use that number as ur base water to figure out where to go from there looks like mag deficiency ..could be improper pH take a sample of the root core and do a slurry test to find the accurate pH and ppm.. also u have perlite in your medium what's the ratio of perlite to coco if ur running less coco than perlite I would defiantly be aiming that p.h lower.. I use 30 gallon pots str8 coco no perlite I water to get 30 percent run off or so are u getting runoff?? Good quality coco allows roots to have optimal oxygen levels what brand of coco medium do u use

AngusMcKay said:

30 gallons of COCO COIR just for one plant? you must have some trees inside. that is intense, I could fit one or two 30 gallon pots in my room, but don't have the height to accommodate.

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Ya I understand that's why u need to flip earlier ..Ya I use 2 30gallons in a 4x4 and Scrog them I get 2g per watt doing so with pure coco no perlite.. I'm a big fan of less plants but growing them to there full genetic potential and having even light distribution / even canopy

When u say the coco is natural high please realize that u can set your pH by proper feeding schedule and run off / routine checks on root area pH and e.c

Correct me if I'm wrong but that Hanna checker meter is accurate to 0.2 pH is it not so the pH might deviate a bit from your reading

Chrissa said:

No I understand the hps making the colour in the picture off I'm talking about the leaves curling upward.. what r ur Temps / humidity.. if ur pH is between 5.6 to 6.1ish ur plant will be fine 5.8 is optimal in coco bottom line.. I'm not to familiar with ppm.. someone else can explain better in that sense.. using distilled water Is only going to make things worse coco works best with tap water ..I would add calmag first then mix ur tank very well check the ppm again and use that number as ur base water to figure out where to go from there looks like mag deficiency ..could be improper pH take a sample of the root core and do a slurry test to find the accurate pH and ppm.. also u have perlite in your medium what's the ratio of perlite to coco if ur running less coco than perlite I would defiantly be aiming that e.c lower.. I use 30 gallon pots str8 coco no perlite I water to get 30 percent run off or so are u getting runoff?? Good quality coco allows roots to have optimal oxygen levels what brand of coco medium do u use

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Ok, I understand now. My leaves are curling upward on the edges ( just a few ) because I am a dumb ass and didn't have enough extension cords for my Christmas lights so I took my fan down in the mean time. My room was just a bit hot for a few days until I improved my ventilation, I just opened one side of the tent. I will start by adding CAL MAG first. I didn't use the tap water because it was reading at 780 PPM just from the tap which kinda freaked me out. if that is ok to use please let me know your thoughts. I am only using about 5-10 percent perlite in the mix. I do water to get run off every other feeding, and there is usually a good amount. I was not using a PH meter until 12/13, so that is probably why I had a shitty start. I think I just got a little wild with all the additives at 2.5 mil and will probably just step them down a bit until I see the leaves color improve. I use Sun Leaves coco coir, I washed it many times before use, but I had seen on some forums people were saying bad things about it, I personally like it and my roots are very abundant and growing out the bottom of the pot so they seem to be healthy enough. so I guess I either need to switch to tap or get a reverse osmosis system if my tap is too bad. I really appreciate your responses since you actually use COCO COIR i really appreciate your help.

Chrissa said:

Correct me if I'm wrong but that Hanna checker meter is accurate to 0.2 pH is it not so the pH might deviate a bit from your reading

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to be honest i am not totally sure, but it gives me readings of 5.81 so it rounds to two decimals is that what you mean? i am sure it deviates a bit just cause i am not always the most accurate person when it comes to general calibration and such

Chrissa said:

When u say the coco is natural high please realize that u can set your pH by proper feeding schedule and run off / routine checks on root area pH and e.c

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yes, i see that now, especially after i gave it a few good feedings with good amounts of runoff. the plants literally took off after i first fed with 5.8 and the proper amounts of nutes 650 PPM. after that it was like my eyes were opened to how beneficial it is to feed to runoff.

Glad u are confident about your brand .. I personally use canna and I love the stuff .. first let's understand the feeding .. feed always with a nutrient solution never pure water it will mess up the buffer that u need . Always feed to at least 20 percent run off that's a Key point in coco always always always lol..always feed never pure water remember that .. coco has a natural ability to hold sodium and potassium. But when u feed the sodium and potassium charged sites or cation exchange sites bind and hold calcium and magnesium this is ok IF!! Your adding calmag every feeding/watering if not then the pure water acctally flushes the calcium and magnesium away which then the next feeding/watering the charged sites take the cal/mag from the solution u just fed them and cause your plants to become calcium and/or magnesium deficient which is probably what causedthe leaves to curl not the Temps but it could possibly be a combination of this ,Temps ,improper root environment pH and e.c. as for your tap water ppm I'm not to familiar with ppm.. that seems ridiculously high but Idk.. tap water e.c is usually around 0.4 for me which is real low I add calmag starting low then full strength ..check your root environment pH and ppm.. make sure u r ppm meter is calibrated too!!.. to do so take a sample of the core and add 3 times the volume of the sample in water to the sample in a cup mix vigorously wait 30 to 45 min and then mix again filter through a coffie filter into another cup and check pH and e.c this is the most accurate way to check the root environment as the run off diagnosis actually deviates considering cocos cation exchange capacity

BTW u say 5 to 10 percent perlite does this mean that a majority of the perlite is at the top because it looks like there's a lot of white in those pots if so ok if the whole pot is like that u might be closer to 60/40 or even higher .again if this is the case please don't be afraid to say because roots in perlite need a slightly more acidic pH the in coco and this could also change a few other parameters I've stated to abide by before

This is a good explanation of how this cation exchange works ......coco is a naural fiber that acts like a peat fiber in the way that it binds and releases nutrients, but also like an inert substrate such as Rockwool in the way that it holds water however the characteristics of coco are very different then peat which makes it a very unique product. Coco substrate can act as a buffer to store nutrient and water for the plants.Buffering can work in several ways there are water buffers, pH buffers, nutrient buffers, and the unique coco buffer. So let's start with the water buffer rockwool can hold about 92% of its volume in water this water supply is there for the plant when it needs it and it's called a waterbuffer. Coco can act as a water buffer as well although it can only hold about 66% of its volume in water. Then we have the PH buffer . Potting mix that's made from acidic peat . And because of this acidity,lime is added to bring it to the right pH value. If u water the plant with a nutrient solution with a higher or lower pH the lime buffer Wil neutralize the pH value, at least until the lime in the peat runs out.Potting mixes are usually more forgiving for mistakes. Coco is neutral to its pH value and will not neutralize the pH value of the nutrient solution. This means the pH values are easier to control or pinpoint in coco but is not as forgiving as potting mixes. Then we have the nutrient buffers substratescontaining peat or mineral soil combine nutrients to the fibers or partials using "charged" sites known as cation exchange sites. The nutrients can later be released into the solution around the fibers in the soil. Coco has similar spaces around its fibers but these are all ready filled with the potassium and sodium. This sodium and excess potassium needs to be removed by washing the cocos thoroughly with clean low ec water this treatment should be done by the supplier making coco substrates from coco fibers. Last but not least we have the coco buffer, as mentioned coco fibers also hold potassium. This needs to beremoved by adding calcium and magnesium. If this does not happen or if the buffer is washed away from flushing the substrate with low ec water, the substrate will draw calcium and magnesium out the nutrient solution. But still although the coco is buffered it still has a chance of binding some calcium and magnesium and then releasing potassium

Chrissa said:

Glad u are confident about your brand .. I personally use canna and I love the stuff .. first let's understand the feeding .. feed always with a nutrient solution never pure water it will mess up the buffer that u need . Always feed to at least 20 percent run off that's a Key point in coco always always always lol..always feed never pure water remember that .. coco has a natural ability to hold sodium and potassium. But when u feed the sodium and potassium charged sites or cation exchange sites bind and hold calcium and magnesium this is ok IF!! Your adding calmag every feeding/watering if not then the pure water acctally flushes the calcium and magnesium away which then the next feeding/watering the charged sites take the cal/mag from the solution u just fed them and cause your plants to become calcium and/or magnesium deficient which is probably what causedthe leaves to curl not the Temps but it could possibly be a combination of this ,Temps ,improper root environment pH and e.c. as for your tap water ppm I'm not to familiar with ppm.. that seems ridiculously high but Idk.. tap water e.c is usually around 0.4 for me which is real low I add calmag starting low then full strength ..check your root environment pH and ppm.. make sure u r ppm meter is calibrated too!!.. to do so take a sample of the core and add 3 times the volume of the sample in water to the sample in a cup mix vigorously wait 30 to 45 min and then mix again filter through a coffie filter into another cup and check pH and e.c this is the most accurate way to check the root environment as the run off diagnosis actually deviates considering cocos cation exchange capacity

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This is my first time growing with coco coir i will have to get some solution to calibrate my meter hopefully its not too bad. I understand what youre saying about the feeding every time with nutrients i used ph 5.8 water a few times to feed with no nutes so you may have it just right. I have since been feeding every time.hopefully it will balance out over time if i keep it steady. Do i just use a soil test kit to test the coco? Or just mix and filter like you said and use my ph meter? I also retested my tap and it was 448 but i let the water run for a minute to clear out the pipes, so its much less just still really high.

Chrissa said:

This is a good explanation of how this cation exchange works ......coco is a naural fiber that acts like a peat fiber in the way that it binds and releases nutrients, but also like an inert substrate such as Rockwool in the way that it holds water however the characteristics of coco are very different then peat which makes it a very unique product. Coco substrate can act as a buffer to store nutrient and water for the plants.Buffering can work in several ways there are water buffers, pH buffers, nutrient buffers, and the unique coco buffer. So let's start with the water buffer rockwool can hold about 92% of its volume in water this water supply is there for the plant when it needs it and it's called a waterbuffer. Coco can act as a water buffer as well although it can only hold about 66% of its volume in water. Then we have the PH buffer . Potting mix that's made from acidic peat . And because of this acidity,lime is added to bring it to the right pH value. If u water the plant with a nutrient solution with a higher or lower pH the lime buffer Wil neutralize the pH value, at least until the lime in the peat runs out.Potting mixes are usually more forgiving for mistakes. Coco is neutral to its pH value and will not neutralize the pH value of the nutrient solution. This means the pH values are easier to control or pinpoint in coco but is not as forgiving as potting mixes. Then we have the nutrient buffers substratescontaining peat or mineral soil combine nutrients to the fibers or partials using "charged" sites known as cation exchange sites. The nutrients can later be released into the solution around the fibers in the soil. Coco has similar spaces around its fibers but these are all ready filled with the potassium and sodium. This sodium and excess potassium needs to be removed by washing the cocos thoroughly with clean low ec water this treatment should be done by the supplier making coco substrates from coco fibers. Last but not least we have the coco buffer, as mentioned coco fibers also hold potassium. This needs to beremoved by adding calcium and magnesium. If this does not happen or if the buffer is washed away from flushing the substrate with low ec water, the substrate will draw calcium and magnesium out the nutrient solution. But still although the coco is buffered it still has a chance of binding some calcium and magnesium and then releasing potassium

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This is an awesome explanation thank you. I actually want to pre buffer my coco next time i start my grow with calmag so its already present in the coco when it transplant my clones.

Chrissa said:

BTW u say 5 to 10 percent perlite does this mean that a majority of the perlite is at the top because it looks like there's a lot of white in those pots if so ok if the whole pot is like that u might be closer to 60/40 or even higher .again if this is the case please don't be afraid to say because roots in perlite need a slightly more acidic pH the in coco and this could also change a few other parameters I've stated to abide by before

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Perlite is only in the top layer, there is none in the bottom two thirds of the pot i put a layer on the top of some of the coco that seemed to dry quicker than others. how often do you water? Or say how often would you water at 20 percent runoff in my sitiuation? My real dilemma is i dont know if i should pot up to 5 gal or add coco to the top, would the roots grow up into the top layer of coco or just continue to get root bound on the bottom?

U mix and filter like I said just make sure u let it sit for 45 min before u filter then test. Are they all ready root bound ?? Defiantly get calibration solution..because u added perlite only to the top it's making an improper balance in the drying of ur pot .. do this next step for each individual plant.. get your resivoir add water then add 2/3 of your usual strength cal mag... mix...add 2/3 of your usual strength of a mix and b mix then add a 1/2 strength of your root additive mix.. make sure u have enough mixture for 2 times the volume of all your pots ..ya it's a lot ghats y we avoid problems on the future and buy an e.C meter so everyone can convert and help..not after u mix that u might have to do a couple at a time .. don't pH just wait. get 5 gallon pot, remove plant from 3 gallon pot .. put some coco in the bottom of 5 gallon pot .. place plant on top of coco in pot.. try to break apart the perlite cluster into the sides and bottom of the pot ..do this without breaking to many roots if u break a couple relax ur good lol...then add more coco to fill almost to top and mix again trying to separate a little more perlite. Pick a pot up feel the weight make a mental noteLabel your plants #1 #2..... after uve transplanted all your plants go back to your resivoir mix again.. check ppm should be a bit lower then usual about 3rd strength lower that's perfect around there will be good .. now pH it mix real vigorously check twice to make sure ur at 5.8 .. now flush each pot with double to volume of the 5 gallon pot with the nuttents. . Drain run off to waste...after uve done them all pick up the pots feel there weight make a mental note of it.. put ur finger in the top feel how moist it is .make a mental note. Check in 2 days is it still moist or almost dry is it still heavy or is it almost as light as before u flushed ?? If dry and almost as light as before u flushed then this is when u water / feed . Every time u water u go a little higher ppm 650 675 700 ..remember these key points for your water 5.8ph slow gradual rize of ppm water temp 22°Celsius and only water when pot feels dry and lighter .. I end up watering my pots every day until 20 percent run off but I usee a huge resivoir with pH control and drip irrigation for precise feeding ... I also use 1000w so plants drink a lot more. So again when ur doing this flush u want at leadt twice the volume pumpin through but when ur back to normal schedual only water to about 20percent runoff ..once this is in cheque it should be easier to control and plants shoukd come to within a week or two then flip .. ive got some killer techniqued to maximise yeild too but well get into thay anothet time happy growing and Next time try less plants

Coco works really well with the runoff .. think of the pot in layers 1.2.3.4 after u feed it should go 1.2.3.4 saturated then 2.3.4 still saturated then 3.4 still saturated and in between the last two layers dry is where u wanna water again sit takes practise and is why the pot weighing technique works great