Can't figure out what's wrong :(

Hi guys,

I've tried and tried different things and my plants just won't grow as well as expected... I've done A LOT of research before starting my grow and was very confident of getting something decent, but right now, I'm kind of baffled......

Earlier problem(s) and adjustments

• at ~4th node, some older leaves started to turn yellow and die (I left the dead leaves as the plant still can use the energy stored in them
• the following things could have been the cause
  • low RH (15-25%)
    • managed to get it up to 35-45%
  • wind burn, as the fan was blowing full power directly on the plants
    • turned the fan to get a more passive aeration
  • overwatering
    • bought a soil hygrometer to be more aware of whats going on in the soil

This helped a little bit and I thought I was going at the right direction as the plants seemed happier (but not as happy as I could see in some other peoples pictures...). I did UBs topping for 4 colas (above the 3rd node as the 1st had dead leaves on it) after I reached the 6th node as I felt the plant was stable enough. The plant responded OK, and the growth of the side shoots began. But the leaves were still more droopy than not and the growth is sloooowwww...

Present problem(s)

• leaves lime green
• claw/droopy leaves
• narrow leaves
• growth very slow

Eventual causes

• soil too compact, I feel I could have put more perlite
  • but it's not as compact as outside and I can easily dig with a finger through the pots
• water PH
  • the soil should have what it takes balance it out
  • we live in a canadian village near mountains, the water is very fresh/drinkable and we grow a lot of other plants using this water without ANY other problem
  • next step would be to test the PH but I've read many times that growing in soil is very forgivable regarding PH and we don't have an extreme case of bad drinking water...
• pests
  • didn't see anything when observing the plant, even with magnifier glasses
• lack of / too many nutrients
  • went more on the conservative side of nutes and began with 30% of a full dosage as the initial soil already had some nutes in it
  • when seeing the light green color, I added a 75% dosage as top dressing + some vermicompost
  • added molassed water to get the microbes alive (even though I'm not sure it works like that...)

Setup/environment

• RH 35-45%
• Temp 70-80°F
• Organic soil (Fafard Connaisseur (50%), Perlite (15%), vermicompost (35%)) (see pictures)
• Strain : PeakSeedsBC Kush x Skunk
• Tent (Idaodan 2x2x4)
• Lights (QB288 Samsung 561 Diodes 135W total @ 120W right now)
• Fan (S&P TD-150S) @~10%
• Carbon Filter (Vivosun 6”)
• 1ga fabric pots
• Nutrients
  • Gaia Green All Purpose 4-4-4 (see picture)
  • Molasses
• Light schedule : 20/4
• Germination date : 11.12.18 (since 49 days)

I hope I didn't forget some details, will update if anything comes to mind. Any help would be really appreciated as I'm really out of ideas.

THANK YOU

Plants


Soil



Vermicompost



Perlite


Gaia Green 4-4-4 All purpose

plants this size should be getting full dose of nutes.

I would not put any fert into the soil directly - if you do then you can't take it out.....

anyways - try this - dilute that to 15% of what it says on the bottle and do a foilar spray -

if it improves the plant is hungry and needs nutes....

redivider said:

plants this size should be getting full dose of nutes.

I would not put any fert into the soil directly - if you do then you can't take it out.....

anyways - try this - dilute that to 15% of what it says on the bottle and do a foilar spray -

if it improves the plant is hungry and needs nutes....

Click to expand...

mariowarner said:

Hi guys,

I've tried and tried different things and my plants just won't grow as well as expected... I've done A LOT of research before starting my grow and was very confident of getting something decent, but right now, I'm kind of baffled......

Earlier problem(s) and adjustments

• at ~4th node, some older leaves started to turn yellow and die (I left the dead leaves as the plant still can use the energy stored in them
• the following things could have been the cause
  • low RH (15-25%)
    • managed to get it up to 35-45%
  • wind burn, as the fan was blowing full power directly on the plants
    • turned the fan to get a more passive aeration
  • overwatering
    • bought a soil hygrometer to be more aware of whats going on in the soil

This helped a little bit and I thought I was going at the right direction as the plants seemed happier (but not as happy as I could see in some other peoples pictures...). I did UBs topping for 4 colas (above the 3rd node as the 1st had dead leaves on it) after I reached the 6th node as I felt the plant was stable enough. The plant responded OK, and the growth of the side shoots began. But the leaves were still more droopy than not and the growth is sloooowwww...

Present problem(s)

• leaves lime green
• claw/droopy leaves
• narrow leaves
• growth very slow

Eventual causes

• soil too compact, I feel I could have put more perlite
  • but it's not as compact as outside and I can easily dig with a finger through the pots
• water PH
  • the soil should have what it takes balance it out
  • we live in a canadian village near mountains, the water is very fresh/drinkable and we grow a lot of other plants using this water without ANY other problem
  • next step would be to test the PH but I've read many times that growing in soil is very forgivable regarding PH and we don't have an extreme case of bad drinking water...
• pests
  • didn't see anything when observing the plant, even with magnifier glasses
• lack of / too many nutrients
  • went more on the conservative side of nutes and began with 30% of a full dosage as the initial soil already had some nutes in it
  • when seeing the light green color, I added a 75% dosage as top dressing + some vermicompost
  • added molassed water to get the microbes alive (even though I'm not sure it works like that...)

Setup/environment

• RH 35-45%
• Temp 70-80°F
• Organic soil (Fafard Connaisseur (50%), Perlite (15%), vermicompost (35%)) (see pictures)
• Strain : PeakSeedsBC Kush x Skunk
• Tent (Idaodan 2x2x4)
• Lights (QB288 Samsung 561 Diodes 135W total @ 120W right now)
• Fan (S&P TD-150S) @~10%
• Carbon Filter (Vivosun 6”)
• 1ga fabric pots
• Nutrients
  • Gaia Green All Purpose 4-4-4 (see picture)
  • Molasses
• Light schedule : 20/4
• Germination date : 11.12.18 (since 49 days)

I hope I didn't forget some details, will update if anything comes to mind. Any help would be really appreciated as I'm really out of ideas.

THANK YOU

Plants
View attachment 4272350

Soil
View attachment 4272339
View attachment 4272341

Vermicompost
View attachment 4272342
View attachment 4272343

Perlite
View attachment 4272345

Gaia Green 4-4-4 All purpose
View attachment 4272348

Click to expand...

Almost looks like lock out due to a ph problem

Poisoned..... That soil alone could have carried growth for a LONG time..... bigtime lockouts there.....scorching hot soil now....unflushable.
That's what I see.

mariowarner said:

Hi guys,

I've tried and tried different things and my plants just won't grow as well as expected... I've done A LOT of research before starting my grow and was very confident of getting something decent, but right now, I'm kind of baffled......

Earlier problem(s) and adjustments

• at ~4th node, some older leaves started to turn yellow and die (I left the dead leaves as the plant still can use the energy stored in them
• the following things could have been the cause
  • low RH (15-25%)
    • managed to get it up to 35-45%
  • wind burn, as the fan was blowing full power directly on the plants
    • turned the fan to get a more passive aeration
  • overwatering
    • bought a soil hygrometer to be more aware of whats going on in the soil

This helped a little bit and I thought I was going at the right direction as the plants seemed happier (but not as happy as I could see in some other peoples pictures...). I did UBs topping for 4 colas (above the 3rd node as the 1st had dead leaves on it) after I reached the 6th node as I felt the plant was stable enough. The plant responded OK, and the growth of the side shoots began. But the leaves were still more droopy than not and the growth is sloooowwww...

Present problem(s)

• leaves lime green
• claw/droopy leaves
• narrow leaves
• growth very slow

Eventual causes

• soil too compact, I feel I could have put more perlite
  • but it's not as compact as outside and I can easily dig with a finger through the pots
• water PH
  • the soil should have what it takes balance it out
  • we live in a canadian village near mountains, the water is very fresh/drinkable and we grow a lot of other plants using this water without ANY other problem
  • next step would be to test the PH but I've read many times that growing in soil is very forgivable regarding PH and we don't have an extreme case of bad drinking water...
• pests
  • didn't see anything when observing the plant, even with magnifier glasses
• lack of / too many nutrients
  • went more on the conservative side of nutes and began with 30% of a full dosage as the initial soil already had some nutes in it
  • when seeing the light green color, I added a 75% dosage as top dressing + some vermicompost
  • added molassed water to get the microbes alive (even though I'm not sure it works like that...)

Setup/environment

• RH 35-45%
• Temp 70-80°F
• Organic soil (Fafard Connaisseur (50%), Perlite (15%), vermicompost (35%)) (see pictures)
• Strain : PeakSeedsBC Kush x Skunk
• Tent (Idaodan 2x2x4)
• Lights (QB288 Samsung 561 Diodes 135W total @ 120W right now)
• Fan (S&P TD-150S) @~10%
• Carbon Filter (Vivosun 6”)
• 1ga fabric pots
• Nutrients
  • Gaia Green All Purpose 4-4-4 (see picture)
  • Molasses
• Light schedule : 20/4
• Germination date : 11.12.18 (since 49 days)

I hope I didn't forget some details, will update if anything comes to mind. Any help would be really appreciated as I'm really out of ideas.

THANK YOU

Plants
View attachment 4272350

Soil
View attachment 4272339
View attachment 4272341

Vermicompost
View attachment 4272342
View attachment 4272343

Perlite
View attachment 4272345

Gaia Green 4-4-4 All purpose
View attachment 4272348

Click to expand...

Next time just start with a good aerated quality potting soil., keep rh in seedling stage around 60-70% keep moist but not damp, dont blow fan directly into tender seedlings, keep the lights at right hight and intensity depending on type of lighting used. Keep good dry and wet cycles, start feeding after 2 weeks normally or until cotiledon leaves turn yellow, introduce nutrients at the lower dose recommended if not growing organic, maintain a average rt of 70. Use the KISS approach. Don't over do shit!! GL

redivider said:

plants this size should be getting full dose of nutes.

I would not put any fert into the soil directly - if you do then you can't take it out.....

anyways - try this - dilute that to 15% of what it says on the bottle and do a foilar spray -

if it improves the plant is hungry and needs nutes....

Click to expand...

The problem is that I use dry ferts which cannot be diluted very well (I tried and it was a shitshow...)
A lower comment stated that the original soil without nutes was plenty to carry the plant a long time, that's what I was initially thinking. In the end, I added the full dose, but maybe the soil is just too hot right now...

Palmerrdgrower said:

Almost looks like lock out due to a ph problem

Click to expand...

I was ruling this idea out as I'm growing other things with succes and living in the canadian countryside, water is said to be pretty pure, but I the next step might be to buy a test kit to be 100% sure...

Chip Green said:

Poisoned..... That soil alone could have carried growth for a LONG time..... bigtime lockouts there.....scorching hot soil now....unflushable.
That's what I see.

Click to expand...

You sure about that? Should I repot in the soil without fertilizers?

Tupapa said:

Next time just start with a good aerated quality potting soil., keep rh in seedling stage around 60-70% keep moist but not damp, dont blow fan directly into tender seedlings, keep the lights at right hight and intensity depending on type of lighting used. Keep good dry and wet cycles, start feeding after 2 weeks normally or until cotiledon leaves turn yellow, introduce nutrients at the lower dose recommended if not growing organic, maintain a average rt of 70. Use the KISS approach. Don't over do shit!! GL

Click to expand...

I did everything you said, minus the RH which was too (20%) low for a time. In the beginning I used a dome to keep RH@70% until 2nd node. Now at 40% it's not ideal, but I guess the plants grows fine in some harsher environments... That's why I don't understand what's happening right now...

I think your too hot in the soil and overwatered and the main issue is your lacking mag on top of it.

so your in canada are you able to get a stand alone microbe product up there? if not with what you have on hand I suggest you learn to brew a tea with the nutes and the worm castings add 1gr per gal of epsom salt to it.

So with that I would flush the pots with clean water ph'd to 6.5 then water in my tea and leave it alone till it needs to be watered again.

If you cant brew a tea yet then get some epsom salt and water in 1gr per gal of water and the epsom salt, I would say to do that asap.

You need a active microbe population in that soil to break down the nutes you are using to make it available to the plant. Excessive salts can kill your microbes.

So if that wasnt confusing too hot of a soil killed the microbes lack of mag made them fade out plants got over watered and now have root issues and there sitting there saying fuck I wish I had some mag and some microbes I could get back to work. Now if we could get a bigger light that would be great, that is what I think your plants are saying.

mariowarner said:

Hi guys,

I've tried and tried different things and my plants just won't grow as well as expected... I've done A LOT of research before starting my grow and was very confident of getting something decent, but right now, I'm kind of baffled......

Earlier problem(s) and adjustments

• at ~4th node, some older leaves started to turn yellow and die (I left the dead leaves as the plant still can use the energy stored in them
• the following things could have been the cause
  • low RH (15-25%)
    • managed to get it up to 35-45%
  • wind burn, as the fan was blowing full power directly on the plants
    • turned the fan to get a more passive aeration
  • overwatering
    • bought a soil hygrometer to be more aware of whats going on in the soil

This helped a little bit and I thought I was going at the right direction as the plants seemed happier (but not as happy as I could see in some other peoples pictures...). I did UBs topping for 4 colas (above the 3rd node as the 1st had dead leaves on it) after I reached the 6th node as I felt the plant was stable enough. The plant responded OK, and the growth of the side shoots began. But the leaves were still more droopy than not and the growth is sloooowwww...

Present problem(s)

• leaves lime green
• claw/droopy leaves
• narrow leaves
• growth very slow

Eventual causes

• soil too compact, I feel I could have put more perlite
  • but it's not as compact as outside and I can easily dig with a finger through the pots
• water PH
  • the soil should have what it takes balance it out
  • we live in a canadian village near mountains, the water is very fresh/drinkable and we grow a lot of other plants using this water without ANY other problem
  • next step would be to test the PH but I've read many times that growing in soil is very forgivable regarding PH and we don't have an extreme case of bad drinking water...
• pests
  • didn't see anything when observing the plant, even with magnifier glasses
• lack of / too many nutrients
  • went more on the conservative side of nutes and began with 30% of a full dosage as the initial soil already had some nutes in it
  • when seeing the light green color, I added a 75% dosage as top dressing + some vermicompost
  • added molassed water to get the microbes alive (even though I'm not sure it works like that...)

Setup/environment

• RH 35-45%
• Temp 70-80°F
• Organic soil (Fafard Connaisseur (50%), Perlite (15%), vermicompost (35%)) (see pictures)
• Strain : PeakSeedsBC Kush x Skunk
• Tent (Idaodan 2x2x4)
• Lights (QB288 Samsung 561 Diodes 135W total @ 120W right now)
• Fan (S&P TD-150S) @~10%
• Carbon Filter (Vivosun 6”)
• 1ga fabric pots
• Nutrients
  • Gaia Green All Purpose 4-4-4 (see picture)
  • Molasses
• Light schedule : 20/4
• Germination date : 11.12.18 (since 49 days)

I hope I didn't forget some details, will update if anything comes to mind. Any help would be really appreciated as I'm really out of ideas.

THANK YOU

Plants
View attachment 4272350

Soil
View attachment 4272339
View attachment 4272341

Vermicompost
View attachment 4272342
View attachment 4272343

Perlite
View attachment 4272345

Gaia Green 4-4-4 All purpose
View attachment 4272348

Click to expand...

Talk about pH

Edit: And why you're not adjusting yours because that's where I would start cuz that's your problem Jimmy, that and the overdose of newts

More Edit: so I just saw what you said about how you gave it full strength newts in already too hot soil, I would do what Bernie said above, flush the shit out of it and then stop feeding it for a minute, good luck!

mariowarner said:

The problem is that I use dry ferts which cannot be diluted very well (I tried and it was a shitshow...)
A lower comment stated that the original soil without nutes was plenty to carry the plant a long time, that's what I was initially thinking. In the end, I added the full dose, but maybe the soil is just too hot right now...


I was ruling this idea out as I'm growing other things with succes and living in the canadian countryside, water is said to be pretty pure, but I the next step might be to buy a test kit to be 100% sure...


You sure about that? Should I repot in the soil without fertilizers?


I did everything you said, minus the RH which was too (20%) low for a time. In the beginning I used a dome to keep RH@70% until 2nd node. Now at 40% it's not ideal, but I guess the plants grows fine in some harsher environments... That's why I don't understand what's happening right now...

Click to expand...

DO NOT pull those plants out of that soil. Flush it if you want but dont fuck with the roots like that.

Bernie420 said:

I think your too hot in the soil and overwatered and the main issue is your lacking mag on top of it.

so your in canada are you able to get a stand alone microbe product up there? if not with what you have on hand I suggest you learn to brew a tea with the nutes and the worm castings add 1gr per gal of epsom salt to it.

So with that I would flush the pots with clean water ph'd to 6.5 then water in my tea and leave it alone till it needs to be watered again.

If you cant brew a tea yet then get some epsom salt and water in 1gr per gal of water and the epsom salt, I would say to do that asap.

You need a active microbe population in that soil to break down the nutes you are using to make it available to the plant. Excessive salts can kill your microbes.

So if that wasnt confusing too hot of a soil killed the microbes lack of mag made them fade out plants got over watered and now have root issues and there sitting there saying fuck I wish I had some mag and some microbes I could get back to work. Now if we could get a bigger light that would be great, that is what I think your plants are saying.

Click to expand...

oh boy I'm just going to stand aside and let the shit show begin.

redivider said:

oh boy I'm just going to stand aside and let the shit show begin.

Click to expand...

Should be a good one. I going to do some stretches and get warmed up.

Chip Green said:

Poisoned..... That soil alone could have carried growth for a LONG time..... bigtime lockouts there.....scorching hot soil now....unflushable.
That's what I see.

Click to expand...

Agreed, poisoned. Wayyyyy to much nutrients!

Bernie420 said:

So with that I would flush the pots with clean water ph'd to 6.5 then water in my tea and leave it alone till it needs to be watered again.

Click to expand...

redivider said:

oh boy I'm just going to stand aside and let the shit show begin.

Click to expand...

Beachwalker said:

More Edit: so I just saw what you said about how you gave it full strength newts in already too hot soil, I would do what Bernie said above, flush the shit out of it and then stop feeding it for a minute, good luck!

Click to expand...

I get that flushing is kind of a controversial subject... I added as top dressing nutes 1 time 75% of the recommended strenght after 1 month or so as said on the fertilizers indications. I do my watering without nutes, about every 5-6 days or so (when the soil hygrometer is getting in the dry zone). When I water, I do so until there is a run off, then I remove the run off water.

Bernie420 said:

If you cant brew a tea yet then get some epsom salt and water in 1gr per gal of water and the epsom salt, I would say to do that asap.

You need a active microbe population in that soil to break down the nutes you are using to make it available to the plant. Excessive salts can kill your microbes.

Click to expand...

Yeah the teas are coming next year or so. What do the epsom salts add to the soil to make it work?

Bernie420 said:

Now if we could get a bigger light that would be great

Click to expand...

I can get the light to 150W, which is plenty more than 32W/sqft. The guys at HLG told me that for a 2x2 tent this was the right light...

Beachwalker said:

Edit: And why you're not adjusting yours because that's where I would start cuz that's your problem Jimmy, that and the overdose of newts

Click to expand...

Will do it, it just was my last concern as people said that soil with dolomite lime ph'd itself out...

redivider said:

oh boy I'm just going to stand aside and let the shit show begin.

Click to expand...

What would you do if your soil was too hot right now? What are my options besides flushing?


BTW, thanks to all of you for your inputs!

Coloradoclear said:

Agreed, poisoned. Wayyyyy to much nutrients!

Click to expand...

(EDIT: I think I didn't see the flags as I was looking for very green leaves with yellowing tips for poisoning...) Is there a way to get somewhere normal?

You do not need a bigger light.
For one thing that light is a plenty for a 2x2.
For another more light on a plant with problems (other than lack of transpiration) means more problems quicker.

mariowarner said:

(EDIT: I think I didn't see the flags as I was looking for very green leaves with yellowing tips for poisoning...) Is the Is there a way to get somewhere normal?

Click to expand...

flushing is controversial when your at the end not so much in the middle when you want to reset the grow.

With what you said I think you should flush it to reset it but it isnt so hot you need to replace the soil and mess with the root structure you have going on now. It might of gotten hot enough to kill the microbe population you had though.

What do the epsom salts add to the soil to make it work? Your low on mag! Research all you can about mag.

Yes, there seem to be good, relevant reasons for using Epsom salts for plants. Epsom salt helps improve flower blooming and enhances a plant's green color. It can even help plants grow bushier. Epsom salt is made up of hydrated magnesium sulfate (magnesium and sulfur), which is important to healthy plant growth.Nov 27, 2016

If your light is big enough for what you want to do that is fine but the light is what drives the plant. I just thought it was small but I am just going by what I do here.

Basically adding epsom salt and repopulating the microbes you should be good.

Bernie420 said:

flushing is controversial when your at the end not so much in the middle when you want to reset the grow.

With what you said I think you should flush it to reset it but it isnt so hot you need to replace the soil and mess with the root structure you have going on now. It might of gotten hot enough to kill the microbe population you had though.

What do the epsom salts add to the soil to make it work? Your low on mag! Research all you can about mag.

Yes, there seem to be good, relevant reasons for using Epsom salts for plants. Epsom salt helps improve flower blooming and enhances a plant's green color. It can even help plants grow bushier. Epsom salt is made up of hydrated magnesium sulfate (magnesium and sulfur), which is important to healthy plant growth.Nov 27, 2016

If your light is big enough for what you want to do that is fine but the light is what drives the plant. I just thought it was small but I am just going by what I do here.

Basically adding epsom salt and repopulating the microbes you should be good.

Click to expand...

Thank you for taking the time to explain. So I just put the pots on top of a bucket and run water through until good run off and repeat 2-3 times? I guess I should do that in on sitting as to not overwater the plants?

mariowarner said:

The problem is that I use dry ferts which cannot be diluted very well (I tried and it was a shitshow...)
A lower comment stated that the original soil without nutes was plenty to carry the plant a long time, that's what I was initially thinking. In the end, I added the full dose, but maybe the soil is just too hot right now...


I was ruling this idea out as I'm growing other things with succes and living in the canadian countryside, water is said to be pretty pure, but I the next step might be to buy a test kit to be 100% sure...


You sure about that? Should I repot in the soil without fertilizers?


I did everything you said, minus the RH which was too (20%) low for a time. In the beginning I used a dome to keep RH@70% until 2nd node. Now at 40% it's not ideal, but I guess the plants grows fine in some harsher environments... That's why I don't understand what's happening right now...

Click to expand...

Rain water is ph 9

mariowarner said:

Thank you for taking the time to explain. So I just put the pots on top of a bucket and run water through until good run off and repeat 2-3 times? I guess I should do that in on sitting as to not overwater the plants?

Click to expand...

Basically ==you want the water ph'd at 6.5 when you do this.

But make sure you add some epsom and the microbes back in.

if you dont add epsom and microbes back I wouldnt bother with it. Your nutes dont work without microbes breaking it down and and making it available to the plants. And your plants are mag deficient.

and when I think about it just adding the epsom and microbes you should see an improvement in a few days without trying to flush it since your using organic inputs.

Palmerrdgrower said:

Rain water is ph 9

Click to expand...

I mean, if weed grows outside with that ph I shouldn't be concerned about ph, right (real question here!)?