can an led light match a 1000 wat hps

Samb213 said:

i just asked timber about that and they came back with the following

A 1 kW DE HPS outputs roughly the same PAR wattage as a 600 Watt COB light - that is due to the efficiency of the LEDs.


We have many growers who use that particular setup in place of 1KW HPS with good/better results.

We also use that setup in commercial facilities that are replacing their DE HPS lights.

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600w of LEDs will not replace a 1kw hps, you notice that these guys have ZERO grow logs up showing a side by side of a 600w LED vs a 1kw HPS? you know why? the HPS crushes the LED when both are used properly, the only measurement of light that matters is how many photons it outputs, HPS still king on output. 1kw DE light is outputting over 2100 umol you're not gonna come close to that with a 600w led. You are asking the people selling you the light what they think, what they think is they want your money and are gonna tell you whatever to sell you their products. There is no tests that show what they claim because what they claim are lies. It's gonna take more like 750w of LEDs to compare to a 1kw HPS.

Let me educate you to something these LED makers are well known for it's called skewing numbers and using PAR to confuse people and sell them junk, PAR is a TERRIBLE measurement for buying a light. Blue light is weighed MUCH higher in a PAR chart, since white LEDs are made from blue LEDs they contain a TON of blue light. Blue light is not great for flowering cannabis, HPS contains little blue light but a ton of red light which is weighed less in a par chart however when flowering weed plants red light is king which HPS has a ton of , LEDs lack red light since they are a blue diode sprayed with a coating. Hence why you should never use PAR to tell you what a light is outputting.

This is why their skewed numbers don't tell the real story, yes they might have huge PAR ratings, but in a real world situation LEDs will always fall short and that's why you rarely see side by sides and when you do you often see the HPS side doing a lot better during flowering.

Yodaweed said:

600w of LEDs will not replace a 1kw hps, you notice that these guys have ZERO grow logs up showing a side by side of a 600w LED vs a 1kw HPS? you know why? the HPS crushes the LED when both are used properly, the only measurement of light that matters is how many photons it outputs, HPS still king on output. 1kw DE light is outputting over 2100 umol you're not gonna come close to that with a 600w led. You are asking the people selling you the light what they think, what they think is they want your money and are gonna tell you whatever to sell you their products. There is no tests that show what they claim because what they claim are lies. It's gonna take more like 750w of LEDs to compare to a 1kw HPS.

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are you growing vert with a DE and no reflectors to get 2100 umol out of an HPS? pretty sure thats impossible with DE bulbs

also where did they say DE hps? most peopleupgrading from HPS to LED arent using DEs. (SE) HPS system efficiency is around 1.3 umol/J and while 600W may be optimistic, its not far off

oh lol the shitstorm begins



I always thought that PPF is not weighted while YPF weights photons differently based on plant response

Best to match lights to the correct space rather than x led = x hps.

For a 4x8 1000w-1200w. At an efficiency of 2.3-2.5umol/j.

Will cost you a grand

diyled said:

Best to match lights to the correct space rather than x led = x hps.

For a 4x8 1000w-1200w. At an efficiency of 2.3-2.5umol/j.

Will cost you a grand

Click to expand...

I also think 1000--1200W will work for 4x8, I use Mars proII 320 in 4x4, 740W draw power, 46W/sf, plants grow happy

Yodaweed said:

600w of LEDs will not replace a 1kw hps, you notice that these guys have ZERO grow logs up showing a side by side of a 600w LED vs a 1kw HPS? you know why? the HPS crushes the LED when both are used properly, the only measurement of light that matters is how many photons it outputs, HPS still king on output. 1kw DE light is outputting over 2100 umol you're not gonna come close to that with a 600w led. You are asking the people selling you the light what they think, what they think is they want your money and are gonna tell you whatever to sell you their products. There is no tests that show what they claim because what they claim are lies. It's gonna take more like 750w of LEDs to compare to a 1kw HPS.

Let me educate you to something these LED makers are well known for it's called skewing numbers and using PAR to confuse people and sell them junk, PAR is a TERRIBLE measurement for buying a light. Blue light is weighed MUCH higher in a PAR chart, since white LEDs are made from blue LEDs they contain a TON of blue light. Blue light is not great for flowering cannabis, HPS contains little blue light but a ton of red light which is weighed less in a par chart however when flowering weed plants red light is king which HPS has a ton of , LEDs lack red light since they are a blue diode sprayed with a coating. Hence why you should never use PAR to tell you what a light is outputting.

This is why their skewed numbers don't tell the real story, yes they might have huge PAR ratings, but in a real world situation LEDs will always fall short and that's why you rarely see side by sides and when you do you often see the HPS side doing a lot better during flowering.

Click to expand...

I totally agree. As the saying goes. "Don't confuse efforts with results"

yeah im not overley bothered about matching a 1000 watt hps ..im just using that as a standard set by alot of growers to grow top quality weed ..if i cant get anywhere close to that i dont think id bother with them

but if i can hit somewhere close id much prefer to go the led route

what light spectrum would be best for all round veg and flower 3000k or 4000k ?

ill be going with 1060 watt of leds

so from what ive been reading 3000ks are aimed more at flower and 4000 ks aimed more at veg

im thinking of maybe going with 4 265w Quantum Board V2 Led Kits as someone suggested in here instead of say 2 530w Quantum Board V2 Led

would there be any issue with mixing up the light spectrum so i get the best of both worlds ?


2 x 265w Quantum Board V2 Led Kits in 3000k

2 x265w Quantum Board V2 Led Kits in 4000k


spread across the tent for veg and flower

Samb213 said:

yeah im not overley bothered about matching a 1000 watt hps ..im just using that as a standard set by alot of growers to grow top quality weed ..if i cant get anywhere close to that i dont think id bother with them

but if i can hit somewhere close id much prefer to go the led route

what light spectrum would be best for all round veg and flower 3000k or 4000k ?

ill be going with 1060 watt of leds

so from what ive been reading 3000ks are aimed more at flower and 4000 ks aimed more at veg

im thinking of maybe going with 4 265w Quantum Board V2 Led Kits as someone suggested in here instead of say 2 530w Quantum Board V2 Led

would there be any issue with mixing up the light spectrum so i get the best of both worlds ?


2 x 265w Quantum Board V2 Led Kits in 3000k

2 x265w Quantum Board V2 Led Kits in 4000k


spread across the tent for veg and flower

Click to expand...

I haven't tried 4k but I prefer the 3k over the 2700k or 35k for veg and flower.

Yodaweed said:

600w of LEDs will not replace a 1kw hps, you notice that these guys have ZERO grow logs up showing a side by side of a 600w LED vs a 1kw HPS? you know why? the HPS crushes the LED when both are used properly, the only measurement of light that matters is how many photons it outputs, HPS still king on output. 1kw DE light is outputting over 2100 umol you're not gonna come close to that with a 600w led. You are asking the people selling you the light what they think, what they think is they want your money and are gonna tell you whatever to sell you their products. There is no tests that show what they claim because what they claim are lies. It's gonna take more like 750w of LEDs to compare to a 1kw HPS.

Let me educate you to something these LED makers are well known for it's called skewing numbers and using PAR to confuse people and sell them junk, PAR is a TERRIBLE measurement for buying a light. Blue light is weighed MUCH higher in a PAR chart, since white LEDs are made from blue LEDs they contain a TON of blue light. Blue light is not great for flowering cannabis, HPS contains little blue light but a ton of red light which is weighed less in a par chart however when flowering weed plants red light is king which HPS has a ton of , LEDs lack red light since they are a blue diode sprayed with a coating. Hence why you should never use PAR to tell you what a light is outputting.

This is why their skewed numbers don't tell the real story, yes they might have huge PAR ratings, but in a real world situation LEDs will always fall short and that's why you rarely see side by sides and when you do you often see the HPS side doing a lot better during flowering.

Click to expand...

Bahaha!
HPS contains a hell lot of yellow and orange light but not half as much red and much less like white LED's. CMH has red but HPS- also the 2200°k bulbs- have only little red...
Warm white HPS...


Warm white LED..



Every single reason you've given is nonsense and shows that you have no idea about lighting. Not even a bit ...
Light is light no matter how you measure it. Terms like μMol/s, PAR, PPF and PPFD are not an invention of the lighting industry it is the only way to determine how many photons hit an area per second. Not more and not less!
In addition, plants NEED blue light; if they do not get it you get only skinny stalks that would bend and fall all over the place after only 4 weeks of flowering as they can not hold the weight of the buds.
Yes, blue diodes are the base for most white LED's but it depends only on the phosphor mix how many blue photons comes thru. A 2200 or 1750°k chip for instance would have less blue compared to HPS.

Maybe you are a great gardener who achieves great results with HPS! But with LEDs you did something wrong so far!
If you use LED's, you have to do it right! If you continue to work with 25°C and 50% RH it can not work!!!

LED beats HPS no matter if SE or DE and there are many grow threads with LED's that support it... also here in the LED section are LED vs HPS threads. 550w is comparable to a SE HPS and for a DE bulb it needs ~650w to get an equal amount of photons on the canopy. 2100μMol is the total photon output(PPF) but that's not what reach your canopy. With wall and reflector loss it's mabye half that much. You need a 360° vertical setup to use all light produced and even than it's not 2100μMol what reach the canopy.

Lern finally how to use LED, mate!
There is something more to do than just changing the bulbs..

Samb213 said:

yeah im not overley bothered about matching a 1000 watt hps ..im just using that as a standard set by alot of growers to grow top quality weed ..if i cant get anywhere close to that i dont think id bother with them

but if i can hit somewhere close id much prefer to go the led route

what light spectrum would be best for all round veg and flower 3000k or 4000k ?

ill be going with 1060 watt of leds

so from what ive been reading 3000ks are aimed more at flower and 4000 ks aimed more at veg

im thinking of maybe going with 4 265w Quantum Board V2 Led Kits as someone suggested in here instead of say 2 530w Quantum Board V2 Led

would there be any issue with mixing up the light spectrum so i get the best of both worlds ?


2 x 265w Quantum Board V2 Led Kits in 3000k

2 x265w Quantum Board V2 Led Kits in 4000k


spread across the tent for veg and flower

Click to expand...

There is no issue with mixing different spectra but it's not needed. 3000, 3500 and 4000°k can be use as all in one but 3000°k has already enough blue to get almost natural grown plants with good branching and short nodial spacings. With 4000°k the plants stay a bit shorter and more compact but there is not much of a difference in final yield.

I would also use four 265w kits simply because you can distribute them better and get a more even illumination. This allows you to reduce the distance and that in turn increases the efficiency because you lose less light on the walls.
It's also easier when you use different strains with different heights. You could start seedlings under one 265w fixture, veg them with two, then three and when the whole area is filled with plants it's time to use them all.

There are two main things which are different when using LEDs. Ambient temps and humidity!(VPD)
Because LEDs have almost no infrared you need ~84°F/30°C to get the same leaf temps like under HPS.(27-28°C)
With higher ambient temps you also need higher humidity to keep the VPD in a healthy range. 70% in veg and +60% in bloom! At night I would still look for ~50-55% in the last few weeks to avoid bud rot.

Randomblame said:

There is no issue with mixing different spectra but it's not needed. 3000, 3500 and 4000°k can be use as all in one but 3000°k has already enough blue to get almost natural grown plants with good branching and short nodial spacings. With 4000°k the plants stay a bit shorter and more compact but there is not much of a difference in final yield.

I would also use four 265w kits simply because you can distribute them better and get a more even illumination. This allows you to reduce the distance and that in turn increases the efficiency because you lose less light on the walls.
It's also easier when you use different strains with different heights. You could start seedlings under one 265w fixture, veg them with two, then three and when the whole area is filled with plants it's time to use them all.

There are two main things which are different when using LEDs. Ambient temps and humidity!(VPD)
Because LEDs have almost no infrared you need ~84°F/30°C to get the same leaf temps like under HPS.(27-28°C)
With higher ambient temps you also need higher humidity to keep the VPD in a healthy range. 70% in veg and +60% in bloom! At night I would still look for ~50-55% in the last few weeks to avoid bud rot.
View attachment 4197908

Click to expand...

brilliant mate thats exactly the info i was looking for ..think ill go with 4 x 3000 k then although i will be using lst on all my plants to create a nice even canopy so maybe the short node spacing wouldn't be too much of an issue


is that literally the only difference then ?


or is it literally that close you could flip a coin and go with either

Yodaweed said:

600w of LEDs will not replace a 1kw hps, you notice that these guys have ZERO grow logs up showing a side by side of a 600w LED vs a 1kw HPS? you know why? the HPS crushes the LED when both are used properly, the only measurement of light that matters is how many photons it outputs, HPS still king on output. 1kw DE light is outputting over 2100 umol you're not gonna come close to that with a 600w led. You are asking the people selling you the light what they think, what they think is they want your money and are gonna tell you whatever to sell you their products. There is no tests that show what they claim because what they claim are lies. It's gonna take more like 750w of LEDs to compare to a 1kw HPS.

Let me educate you to something these LED makers are well known for it's called skewing numbers and using PAR to confuse people and sell them junk, PAR is a TERRIBLE measurement for buying a light. Blue light is weighed MUCH higher in a PAR chart, since white LEDs are made from blue LEDs they contain a TON of blue light. Blue light is not great for flowering cannabis, HPS contains little blue light but a ton of red light which is weighed less in a par chart however when flowering weed plants red light is king which HPS has a ton of , LEDs lack red light since they are a blue diode sprayed with a coating. Hence why you should never use PAR to tell you what a light is outputting.

This is why their skewed numbers don't tell the real story, yes they might have huge PAR ratings, but in a real world situation LEDs will always fall short and that's why you rarely see side by sides and when you do you often see the HPS side doing a lot better during flowering.

Click to expand...

Most par meters are weighted to favor hps... You don't see a side by side because the hps goes in the garbage after using good led. 750w to beat a de hps that's running over 1100w is pretty damn good. 600w to replace 1000w se is a reasonable expectation.

CobKits said:

are you growing vert with a DE and no reflectors to get 2100 umol out of an HPS? pretty sure thats impossible with DE bulbs

also where did they say DE hps? most peopleupgrading from HPS to LED arent using DEs. (SE) HPS system efficiency is around 1.3 umol/J and while 600W may be optimistic, its not far off

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The fixture’s light source is a Gavita Pro Plus 1000W double ended HPS lamp, generating 2100 µmol s-1 of light. With a light maintenance of over 96% per 5000 hours you only need to replace it once a year.
Mounting is easy because the fixture is balanced and only requires two hanging points. For c-profile installations we have convenient brackets available.

Directly copy/paste off gavita's website, i know you wanna make all this shit up so LEDs come out on top but a gavita DE produces 2100+ umol of light output.


https://gavita.com/retail/products/gavita-pro-line-classic/gavita-pro-1000-de/


Single ended HPS lamps put out around 1950 umols

https://solis-tek.com/solistek-1000w-hps-single-ended-lamp.html

Here's one with a chart showing the depreciation of the bulb over time.

PAR/PPF Maintenance
umol/s 2,000 hr 4,000 hr 6,000 hr 8,000 hr 12,000 hr 16,000 hr 20,000 hr
>1,950 >1,930.5 (99%) >1,911 (98%) >1,911 (98%) >1,891 (97%) >1,852.5 (95%) >1,813.5 (93%) >1,794 (92%)

Yodaweed said:

The fixture’s light source is a Gavita Pro Plus 1000W double ended HPS lamp, generating 2100 µmol s-1 of light. With a light maintenance of over 96% per 5000 hours you only need to replace it once a year.
Mounting is easy because the fixture is balanced and only requires two hanging points. For c-profile installations we have convenient brackets available.

Directly copy/paste off gavita's website, i know you wanna make all this shit up so LEDs come out on top but a gavita DE produces 2100+ umol of light output.


https://gavita.com/retail/products/gavita-pro-line-classic/gavita-pro-1000-de/


Single ended HPS lamps put out around 1950 umols

https://solis-tek.com/solistek-1000w-hps-single-ended-lamp.html

Here's one with a chart showing the depreciation of the bulb over time.

PAR/PPF Maintenance
umol/s 2,000 hr 4,000 hr 6,000 hr 8,000 hr 12,000 hr 16,000 hr 20,000 hr
>1,950 >1,930.5 (99%) >1,911 (98%) >1,911 (98%) >1,891 (97%) >1,852.5 (95%) >1,813.5 (93%) >1,794 (92%)

Click to expand...

Ppfd is all that matters unless all your buds are touching the bulb.

I can't really understand why do you even read this section

Ryante55 said:

Ppfd is all that matters unless all your buds are touching the bulb.

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The stronger the initial value the further from the bulb your plants can be, law of the inverse square.

That's why all that matters is total output which HPS is king of. You guys are still stuck on PAR charts and still are grasping at the wrong data and that's why your grow rooms always yield poor and look tiny. I thought u guys learned from blurple lights that PAR isn't the only thing to read.

You guys also provide no data to backup your arguments, you just say something then try to force it down someones throat like it's the gospel. Unless you provide some actual hard data everything you are saying is mere conjecture...yes that's right it's your opinion, which i don't really care about.

I swear I read "1000 twat hps" in the title.........bummer

Yoda, *before reflector losses*..... c'mon "Jedi"

Yodaweed said:

The stronger the initial value the further from the bulb your plants can be, law of the inverse square.

That's why all that matters is total output which HPS is king of. You guys are still stuck on PAR charts and still are grasping at the wrong data and that's why your grow rooms always yield poor and look tiny. I thought u guys learned from blurple lights that PAR isn't the only thing to read.

You guys also provide no data to backup your arguments, you just say something then try to force it down someones throat like it's the gospel. Unless you provide some actual hard data everything you are saying is mere conjecture...yes that's right it's your opinion, which i don't really care about.

Click to expand...

1000w of led will ouput more than 1000w hps so you proved yourself wrong!

Ryante55 said:

1000w of led will ouput more than 1000w hps so you proved yourself wrong!

Click to expand...

But will you ever get the difference in what it costs back ? You could get 3-4 top brand hps for the same price as one 1000w LED. And i said you need to cite sources , where's your source that shows a 1000w led that's putting out 2100+ umol? We also still didn't even discuss the lack of UV and far red in LEDs which to me is a bigger issue than the output. Ever notice LED users have a lot more deficiencies in their plants too? wonder why that is...

PSUAGRO. said:

I swear I read "1000 twat hps" in the title.........bummer

Yoda, *before reflector losses*..... c'mon Jedi

Click to expand...

beam angle and reflectors also apply to LED's running them open will give a lot more spread but less intensity further away...lots to think about