Business Aspects of Caregiving.

Good afternoon everyone.

Been lurking on the forums for some time trying to find the answers to some questions that have been clattering around in my brain since I decided I wanted to become a caregiver.

Let me just say, I have no dreams of becoming a distributor to the masses and growing bales of weed to make forts out of in the backyard, just enough for the wife and myself.

I won't go into the description of our problems, suffice it to say, a lot of pills every day for decades have arguably started causing more damage than they were intended to correct for and assist us with.

My questions concern the business aspects. I want to err well on the conservative side so that by some horrible freak of random bad luck, I don't become a test case, because I forgot to ask some simple question.
I have seen the forms for applying with the State of Michigan. No problem there, so easy a stoner could fill them out, including many threads about them and linking to the State website page with the pages. Great.

What I haven't found is the process, used by those of you that are not growing in your homes, to "get legal" with your local city/township/county authorities.

I assume you filed a D.B.A. and whatever business paperwork to establish the business. Fine, easy to do. But, where do you go and what did you do next to get approval from your municipality? Or did you do nothing? Did you have to go to a city council meeting and plead your case? (perhaps extravagant but you can see where I am going I hope). I have to assume someone out there is doing something along this line with all the various authorities putting moratoriums on caregiver/dispensary businesses in so many locations throughout the state.

What did you tell the authorities your business was going to be providing? Did you have an attorney create some clever wording based on the MMJ law wording/phrasing?

Now, at this time I do not intend on taking on other patients, at least until the laws are more solidified and some of these test cases get processed. But, in the eventuality that I should decide to in the future, does sales tax apply to any/all of the products that could potentially be provided to our patients?


There are many legal aspects that an enterprising sheriff/police officer/prosecuting attorney could use to shut you down if they really wanted to do so. Hell, not paying sales tax invites you to all kinds of potential issues with the state authorities which can leap frog to the IRS if they really want to punish you for no other reason than they found your application or DBA on file as a Caregiver in their jurisdiction. I realize that is pessimistic and alarmist, and I don't honestly see this happening, but if a little homework and asking questions cuts down the probability further, then I am willing to do the extra work.

I am getting to old to go to jail because I was lazy and some angry prosecutor wants to make statistics to increase his reelection probability.

Have a safe holiday weekend


B

you file a DBA at the county clerks office but as a caregiver in Michigan I do not have to file any paperwork other than my State registration.

I can see an off duty cop writing this in hopes of raising fears about caregiving.

I asked my old Navy buddy, who is wrong?
Me for growing an organic 100% natural plant and using at as medicine for others?
Or the federal government for trying to stop me or regulate me in any way??

definatly the government.....you would think they would be busy be trying to stop all the real bad drugs that are flooding the city (ie heroin crack coke meth) but no there just looking for the easy buck

jesus of Cannabis said:

you file a DBA at the county clerks office but as a caregiver in Michigan I do not have to file any paperwork other than my State registration.

I can see an off duty cop writing this in hopes of raising fears about caregiving.

Click to expand...

Yes, I realize that you could just file a DBA and you are off and running if you want to go that route, and if you do, it's all good.

I am just hoping to hear from some of the more business oriented caregivers to see if they went through anything more to establish themselves on a more stable and legally defensible ground.

Danksnaps420 said:

definatly the government.....you would think they would be busy be trying to stop all the real bad drugs that are flooding the city (ie heroin crack coke meth) but no there just looking for the easy buck

Click to expand...

Your paranoia is showing.

No, I am not with the government. Just a semi-retired guy that is trying to cover my bases here.



B

I have a DBA filed in two counties. I also had my attorney draft a 2 page contract between my business and them. It cost me $225, and it clearly lays out that the patient has read and understands the law of michigan marijuana, that if they chose to do anything with their medicine that is illegal, such as selling it, or smoking and driving, it is 100% their responsibility, and they have to defend me by paying my attorney fees for 7 years after our contract is terminated, which can be any time, by anybody, for any reason. It even says how long I have to give them their 12 rooted growing plants. There is a lot of other stuff, but you get the point. The bottom has my lawyers name and info to make it legal. He has copies of each contract, I have one, and the patient has one, so we're all on the same page.

I'm not going to prison becuase I sold someone medicine, they get in the car, and kill someone, or they sell their neighbor a bag and he does the same thing.

bowlfullofbliss said:

It even says how long I have to give them their 12 rooted growing plants.

Click to expand...

can you explain what you mean here?


also how come you filed in two counties?
is that required when you have patients in different counties?
how much does it cost to file?

thanks for sharing this info with us, if you care to save me $225 you could let me obtain a copy that i could revise to fit my situation?

With this as your goal; Let me just say, I have no dreams of becoming a distributor to the masses and growing bales of weed to make forts out of in the backyard, just enough for the wife and myself.
Just mind your own business and you will go far.

Hello Cleveraliashere,

I had to smile when I read your post as I have owned my own business for 38 years and I agree with what you say 100% as you want to do the right thing.

As for myself I am a close friends with the City Attorney in the small town that I reside, his advice to me was to send a letter with a copy of my Michigan Medical Marihuana card to the City Police County Sheriffs Department and Michigan State Police Post in my City.

In addition, if I were to file a DBA for shall we say "Michigan Medical Marihuana Caregiver Services of Mayberry LLC" my local news paper would publish not only the name of my new business but also my full name and address.

Zoning that is an interesting topic, my attorney friend tells me that the city is looking into zoning and that they "in all probability" will restrict that type of activity to commercial locations only.

Now that being said I don't agree with that, as I think the scope of this law was to allow individuals to grow a small amounts of meds in their own homes.

The zoning is to my benefit as my property is commercial again, I don’t think this is right but I seem to be in the clear "BUT" I am on the fence so to speak.

As I don't want everyone in my town to know what is am doing mainly for security reasons and I would be lying if I didn’t tell you I fear reprisals and a loss of business in my other endeavors, not to mention the Police who in some locals are out of control!

What to do?

No easy answer for me anyway.

Just my honest feelings.

I'm filed in two counties because I have a split property. The conunty line runs in a funny way. I just want to have the name filed in both so if either townships cops show up, I want to have a business in both of their jurisdictions

As a caregiver, you are growing 12 plantes per patient. The way the law is written, the patient is the owner of them, and you are doing the work of growing them. Since it's impractical to run a garden that has a consistent turnover to provide meds to multiple patients, you can never have an actual 12 growing with someones name on them. If they want to leave you and go to another caregiver for any reason, they are entitled to have their plants at the end of your business relationship. If a patient wants to go their own way, I will take 12 cuttings of the strains of their choice, root them in my ez cloner, than put them in whatever they want to grow them in, or have someone else grow them.

It takes 10 plus days to get decent roots, and a little bit to get over transplant shock, so I require that I have a certain amount of time to have their plants ready.

DBA's cost $10, all you do is go to your county's office of vital records, usually the clerks office, have a ten spot, chose a name, and you're a legal business. It makes you a "sole proprieter". It's you, doing business under an assumed name, no biggie.

Sorry, I'm not giving out my contract. Just go to a lawyer, tell them your concerns, and build your own contract.

well i appreciate your responce but your gonna have to allaborate on a couple points.

as a caregiver, every plant in my garden is mine. patients are not entitled to any plants and "the way the law is written" the patient is NOT the owner of anything on my property. where did this info come from? please provide sources.

The caregiver portion of the act says that a designated caregiver can cultivate 12 plants on behalf of the card holding patient. I read that as it means they're entitled to some ownership of 12 plants since you are only able to grow them legally becuase that patient has named you caregiver. That's just my understanding of it, as well as from other users on Michigan Medical Marijuana Association's website.

If from a legal aspect you think I'm mistaken, tell me. I have no problem making some clones if they want to go.

A lot of the patients on that site think they can tell you they can walk away with 12 mature plants that are "theirs". That I don't agree with that at all.

The full text of the law is available on that webite.

can you link me to the caregiver portion? if you have read the law then you should be able to do that. because from what i can see, there isnt one. what your talking about in previous posts, its hearsay. people dont actually read the law, they just spout off at the mouth what ever they heard their friend say and thats where the problems come in.

a patient is entitled to meds from their caregiver at whatever price was agreed upon. nothing more.

http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(jffrzt55dehvwuvvxh0c00ij))/mileg.aspx?page=getObject&objectName=mcl-333-26424

It's in section 4. Do you see it as different?

Sec. 4. (a) A qualifying patient who has been issued and possesses a registry identification card shall not be subject to arrest, prosecution, or penalty in any manner, or denied any right or privilege, including but not limited to civil penalty or disciplinary action by a business or occupational or professional licensing board or bureau, for the medical use of marihuana in accordance with this act, provided that the qualifying patient possesses an amount of marihuana that does not exceed 2.5 ounces of usable marihuana, and, if the qualifying patient has not specified that a primary caregiver will be allowed under state law to cultivate marihuana for the qualifying patient, 12 marihuana plants kept in an enclosed, locked facility. Any incidental amount of seeds, stalks, and unusable roots shall also be allowed under state law and shall not be included in this amount.

no, not at all does it tell me someone else is entitled to plants in my garden. it just says that a patient can have 12 plants unless he/she assigned a caregiver then the cg can have the 12 plants.

Right, but the excuse the whiners on MMMA use is that since you're growing them solely on their behalf, that they're entitled to some ownership.

Personally, I think it's bs. That's why I just make it so they can have some clones and go on their merry way. That's all.

And, that site is SUPER negative, which is why I came here. This place is much more cival, and CC is mostly teenagers.

bowlfullofbliss said:

Right, but the excuse the whiners on MMMA use is that since you're growing them solely on their behalf, that they're entitled to some ownership.

Click to expand...

exactly, they made it up. lol but it probably started with one person saying that on a message board and then people repeated it.

so were on the same page at least. i think it was decent of you to put it in your contract to offer them 12 clones if or when they change cg but imo if their switching then fuck em lol.j/k

on another note. why not show me an example of your contract? you can black out the parts that pertain to you or your patients. i certainly cnnot afford $225 right now and i just recently wrote up contracts for my patients to sign but i dont think they have all the neccessary components.

What a great idea, a contract with patients, I hadn't thought of doing that.

I believe, Monsanto sells it hybrid seeds with an agreement that they own all rights to that DNA. Wouldn't a simple agreement work the same here
and end the potential for the loss of years of genetic development to produce a superior product?

I would never hand over a living plant to a patient. Period. They can have their plants dead as a door nail.

I know there must be farmers online that can tell us how Monsanto and others handles this issue.

is it snowing up north already?! LOL

Up here it is just a matter of time. I do hate shoveling the roof.

oh shit! lolol