Bonsai Mums Help Needed

JSB99 · Mar 17, 2018

Gardenator said:
As far as any water you water or spray your plants with it should always be ph balanced because unless you are using reverse osmosis and there is absolutely no nutrients in your medium you will still find deficiency problems extremely fast in dwc amd a few days in soil with non ph balanced water with or without the nutrients in it there will still be dissolved solids the plant will take from the water to help make amino acids to make photosynthesis possible. Always always always please ph balance your water for your media nuted or otherwise this is really a very important thing as your roots cannot break down its food or the oxygen incthe water as well unless it is in optimal ph range for your media. This is so very important JSB espite what you may have read against balancing fresh water I promise.

You are way off on this! You might want to do a little more reading, and a little less giving advice, right now.

There are so many incorrect things with what you said, I'm not going to spend my time responding to them all.

Jenniann04 · Mar 17, 2018

JSB99 said:
That's a pretty small container, which makes adjusting things very touchy. Are you using tap water? If so, can you post the TDS and pH right out of he tap? Also, fill a glass with tap, and leave it out for a day. After that, take note of the drop in TDS, if any.

When you add water, you really don't have to check the pH before adding nutes, because he pH doesn't matter at that point.

When you change your water, wait a few hours, or even a day, before adding nutes. I would also change the water every few days, especially when the plant gets bigger. It's a really small amount of water. See if that helps.

Yeah it’s a one gallon container. I use tap water that is ran through a water purifier unit under my sink. I have really hard water. After it is ran through the purifier the ppm of the tap water is about 80. It comes out ph of about 6.89ish. It is very touchy when ph’ing it buy the gallon. I use a gallon jug and it takes about 1 1/4 mil ph down to get ph to 5.5-5.6. When I am ph’ing the container it is in.... its approximately about a half gallon. When the ph swing goes about to 6.5 it takes about 1/4 mil ph down to bring it back down to 5.5-5.6

JSB99 · Mar 17, 2018

Jenniann04 said:
Yeah it’s a one gallon container. I use tap water that is ran through a water purifier unit under my sink. I have really hard water. After it is ran through the purifier the ppm of the tap water is about 80. It comes out ph of about 6.89ish. It is very touchy when ph’ing it buy the gallon. I use a gallon jug and it takes about 1 1/4 mil ph down to get ph to 5.5-5.6. When I am ph’ing the container it is in.... its approximately about a half gallon. When the ph swing goes about to 6.5 it takes about 1/4 mil ph down to bring it back down to 5.5-5.6

80ppm after the filter is good. Still, see if it drops after 24hrs in a glass. If there is a drop, it might be messing with your pH level. That's why I was suggesting adding nutes the following day, after a water change. This is the same as my situation.

Your pH out of the tap is normal. It's usually around 7.0. And the amount of pH down you add per gallon is the same as what I use. 5.5 is a little low though. I keep mine about 6.0. It's still best to adjust your pH after adding nutes, and not necessary if not adding nutes. You're actually wasting your pH down doing this. Some newer growers balance their bubble or aero cloners, and it's so unnecessary. Unless nutes are present, plants do not need balanced water. Balanced water is only needed by the plant to transport certain nutrients. Check out the chart:

JSB99 · Mar 17, 2018

I think I'm going to drop down to 5.8 to take in more manganese, which is probably responsible for a few brown spots on the leaves of one of my girls.

Gardenator · Mar 17, 2018

JSB99 said:
You are way off on this! You might want to do a little more reading, and a little less giving advice, right now.

There are so many incorrect things with what you said, I'm not going to spend my time responding to them all.

If you dont balance the fresh water and the ph is wrong it effects the ph of the soil or media and nutrient lockout can occur even from watering with unbalanced water I have done plenty of homework on this that chart you posted doesn't mean shit if you plant is in lock out from the fresh water you give it. You should read more about the importanced of Ph balancing everything you give your plants soil or otherwise and you will notice a difference in overalll quality and taste of your bud if you dont velieve me do a micro grow and ph balance everything you give one and only the food you give the other leave the fresh water unbalanced and harvest dry cure them the same and see which one is better. You will inhibit the roots ability to retain water in general and slow the growth of your plant as well as the possability of nutrient lock out. Seriously its really important not paying attention to the ph of the fresh water you give ur ladies is bad advice bro check ur info

JSB99 · Mar 17, 2018

Gardenator said:
If you dont balance the fresh water and the ph is wrong it effects the ph of the soil or media and nutrient lockout can occur even from watering with unbalanced water I have done plenty of homework on this that chart you posted doesn't mean shit if you plant is in lock out from the fresh water you give it. You should read more about the importanced of Ph balancing everything you give your plants soil or otherwise and you will notice a difference in overalll quality and taste of your bud if you dont velieve me do a micro grow and ph balance everything you give one and only the food you give the other leave the fresh water unbalanced and harvest dry cure them the same and see which one is better. You will inhibit the roots ability to retain water in general and slow the growth of your plant as well as the possability of nutrient lock out. Seriously its really important not paying attention to the ph of the fresh water you give ur ladies is bad advice bro check ur info

You don't know what you're talking about! Some of what you say might apply to soil, with regards to changing the pH of the soil itself, but she is growing via Hydro! Nothing you stated has shit to do with hydro!

Stop giving bad advice, especially in my thread!

JSB99 · Mar 17, 2018

Gardenator said:
If you dont balance the fresh water and the ph is wrong it effects the ph of the soil or media and nutrient lockout can occur even from watering with unbalanced water I have done plenty of homework on this that chart you posted doesn't mean shit if you plant is in lock out from the fresh water you give it. You should read more about the importanced of Ph balancing everything you give your plants soil or otherwise and you will notice a difference in overalll quality and taste of your bud if you dont velieve me do a micro grow and ph balance everything you give one and only the food you give the other leave the fresh water unbalanced and harvest dry cure them the same and see which one is better. You will inhibit the roots ability to retain water in general and slow the growth of your plant as well as the possability of nutrient lock out. Seriously its really important not paying attention to the ph of the fresh water you give ur ladies is bad advice bro check ur info

And as far as getting nutrient lockout from plain water, you have no idea what the Hell you're talking about, and you're giving shitty advice!

Nutrient lockout is caused by too many nutrients, not from plain water. If you're referring to nutrient lockout due to pH shift, then you're missing the important point here! If there are no nutrients present, there are no nutrients to lock out! Therefor, you DO NOT need to balance the water!

Like it said, do much more learning, and much, much less trying to teach!

Read this - Nutrient Lockout

Gardenator · Mar 17, 2018

JSB99 said:
You don't know what you're talking about! Some of what you say might apply to soil, with regards to changing the pH of the soil itself, but she is growing via Hydro! Nothing you stated has shit to do with hydro!

Stop giving bad advice, especially in my thread!

You dont flush or feed plants in hydro un balanced water period. all I grow in is dwc I know what I am talking about listen to JSB if you want your roots to retain less water and lock out ur nutes. Seriously ph is one of the very most important things to consider when growing hydro. By the way all tap water has dissolved solids in the water which the roots will uptake even in fresh water most commonly found is calcium and iron both of which are important micro nutrients ur plants need along with traces of magnesium. Seriously if you dont think oh is important ou will kill your plants. Bad ph in dwc=plant death. Way less important in soil where soil acts as a buffer against too acidic of a solution or tap water. You are completely backwards to ph importantce between soil and hydro. In hydro the roots literally sit in the solution or the water to where soil buffers the acidic solution or water down before the root try to uptake he food or retain the water

JSB99 · Mar 17, 2018

Gardenator said:
If you dont balance the fresh water and the ph is wrong it effects the ph of the soil or media and nutrient lockout can occur even from watering with unbalanced water I have done plenty of homework on this that chart you posted doesn't mean shit if you plant is in lock out from the fresh water you give it. You should read more about the importanced of Ph balancing everything you give your plants soil or otherwise and you will notice a difference in overalll quality and taste of your bud if you dont velieve me do a micro grow and ph balance everything you give one and only the food you give the other leave the fresh water unbalanced and harvest dry cure them the same and see which one is better. You will inhibit the roots ability to retain water in general and slow the growth of your plant as well as the possability of nutrient lock out. Seriously its really important not paying attention to the ph of the fresh water you give ur ladies is bad advice bro check ur info

And on top of that, you're missing the point about watering with plain water, and flushing. Both are meant to remove excess nutrient salts. If you're flushing, why would you be worried about the plant's ability to absorb nutrients!

Gardenator · Mar 17, 2018

JSB99 said:
And as far as getting nutrient lockout from plain water, you have no idea what the Hell you're talking about, and you're giving shitty advice!

Nutrient lockout is caused by too many nutrients, not from plain water. If you're referring to nutrient lockout due to pH shift, then you're missing the important point here! If there are no nutrients present, there are no nutrients to lock out! Therefor, you DO NOT need to balance the water!

Like it said, do much more learning, and much, much less trying to teach!

Read this - Nutrient Lockout

Yo no nutes still equals bad water retention in ur roots, plants immune system can be weakened making it more likely to fall ill to disease and pests, there is so much thay ph affects in hydro I'm not wrong man I know it for a fact. Ph is important past nutrient solution your plant's roots live in when in a dwc even plain water effects these things because roots require the ph to stay optimal for more then just eating the minerals and salts you put into the water.

JSB99 · Mar 17, 2018

Gardenator said:
Yo no nutes still equals bad water retention in ur roots, plants immune system can be weakened making it more likely to fall ill to disease and pests, there is so much thay ph affects in hydro I'm not wrong man I know it for a fact. Ph is important past nutrient solution your plant's roots live in when in a dwc even plain water effects these things because roots require the ph to stay optimal for more then just eating the minerals and salts you put into the water.

Post some pics of your grow. BTW, you're not hurting anything by balancing plain water. It's just not needed!

Gardenator · Mar 17, 2018

JSB99 said:
And on top of that, you're missing the point about watering with plain water, and flushing. Both are meant to remove excess nutrient salts. If you're flushing, why would you be worried about the plant's ability to absorb nutrients!

Flushing in in balanced water still makes the root ability to one retain water to bring hydrogen and oxygen into the plant both of which are factors in the breakdown of the residual dissolved salts (aka nutrients left in the plant that you want to flush out). The plants roots need the right ph in the water even for flush because the dwc media is ur water and your roots will not drink enough water to aid in the essential proccess of breaking down the nutrients into sugars that the plant eats and uses for its resin production durring the end of its life. How can there not be nutrients if you are flushing them out of the plants think about it. So nope not worried about nute lock out but want the nutes to actually break down into sugars turn into resin production and flush out the nutrients still left in the stalks flowers and leaves of your plant so it taste like shit after the first drag. Dont ph the water and look at the salt build up in ur dwc container. You are wrong

Gardenator · Mar 17, 2018

Sorry about the yellow from the hps but bloomers are 16 days old and the ladies look really nice I think. I can take some lights out photos later on tonight so you have a better idea of actual color.

PetFlora · Mar 17, 2018

JSB99 said:
There are a few reasons to keep mums in soil, not hydro

If your pump dies, or you have a power outage, plants in a DWC will start dying in as little as 15 minutes. The roots drown because there's no dissolved oxygen being added to the water.

Growth, especially in veg, can be explosive with DWC. This can make it difficult to keep up with. Remember, along with the plants in your grow, you now have many more to attend to each day. It can become overwhelming.

Soil is much more stable than hydro. If there's an issue with the water, pH levels, nutrient levels, etc...plants in a DWC react very quickly. Soil acts as a buffer to many problems, and will protect your plant.

That's just with mother plants in general. You wouldn't be able to grow mums in a dwc, because one of the most important parts of keeping mums so small is to contain the roots, and make them "root bound". You start off with a 1"x1" square propogation tray cell. Once the sprout fills that up and become root bound, you move it to a 2"x2" cell, then 3x3, and finally, 4x4. Each year they need to be root pruned to keep them going.

6 of one, IMHO, if you screw up in soil, it;s too hard to flush out, whereas with hydro, you dump the nutes, flush, then make fresh nutes

As to mums and power failure with hydro, that's a good point, but roots can be pruned just like the plants

JSB99 · Mar 17, 2018

Gardenator said:
Sorry about the yellow from the hps but bloomers are 16 days old and the ladies look really nice I think. I can take some lights out photos later on tonight so you have a better idea of actual color. View attachment 4107237 View attachment 4107238 View attachment 4107239 View attachment 4107240 View attachment 4107241

Nice!

Like I said, balancing your water every time won't hurt anything, so it's not like we'd see it in your plants

. It's certainly better than people who don't feel the need to ever balance their water

Happy growing

Gardenator · Mar 17, 2018

Gardenator said:
Flushing in in balanced water still makes the root ability to one retain water to bring hydrogen and oxygen into the plant both of which are factors in the breakdown of the residual dissolved salts (aka nutrients left in the plant that you want to flush out). The plants roots need the right ph in the water even for flush because the dwc media is ur water and your roots will not drink enough water to aid in the essential proccess of breaking down the nutrients into sugars that the plant eats and uses for its resin production durring the end of its life. How can there not be nutrients if you are flushing them out of the plants think about it. So nope not worried about nute lock out but want the nutes to actually break down into sugars turn into resin production and flush out the nutrients still left in the stalks flowers and leaves of your plant so it taste like shit after the first drag. Dont ph the water and look at the salt build up in ur dwc container. You are wrong

I appologise i shouldnt blatantly say you are wrong like that because IMO is really what I should say and I noticed a difference when i started phing my fresh water and the flush as i also didnt see how it was important but i was told otherwise and there really is viable research out there that will tell you why and how important it is for everything to be ph balanced for cannabis. It can be done without ph'ing the tap water when flushing but IMO you will like the taste and resin production in the last 2 weeks of flush if you ph the tap water you flush with.

JSB99 · Mar 17, 2018

Gardenator said:
I appologise i shouldnt blatantly say you are wrong like that because IMO is really what I should say and I noticed a difference when i started phing my fresh water and the flush as i also didnt see how it was important but i was told otherwise and there really is viable research out there that will tell you why and how important it is for everything to be ph balanced for cannabis. It can be done without ph'ing the tap water when flushing but IMO you will like the taste and resin production in the last 2 weeks of flush if you ph the tap water you flush with.

Nothin' wrong with that. Everyone's got their own style :-)

. If you feel what you're doing is making your plants grow better, then stick with it.

Cold$moke · Mar 17, 2018

Ok so im not going to jump in mid way

But i will say your both right just not seeing eye to eye.

Yes ph is important

No your plants WONT DIE in plain water they will just grow like shit i know i do this when i go out of town to preserve my genetics when im away for work

This way my lady just had to keep filling them with water they will live for weeks and months lol
My well water is 180 ppm @7.5

Now gardenator is right imo in saying that when you give plain water for a flush you want it phed (i do)
That way the plant is still activly trying to metabolise everything in its self . If i read his stuff right i just scanned through

If you try to flush with un phed water i find it takes longer to get a fade. But i have done this also with no detrimental effects cause yea im a flusher lol

Nothing JSBB. Said is wrong either

Peace fellas

Jenniann04 · Mar 17, 2018

JSB99 said:
And as far as getting nutrient lockout from plain water, you have no idea what the Hell you're talking about, and you're giving shitty advice!

Nutrient lockout is caused by too many nutrients, not from plain water. If you're referring to nutrient lockout due to pH shift, then you're missing the important point here! If there are no nutrients present, there are no nutrients to lock out! Therefor, you DO NOT need to balance the water!

Like it said, do much more learning, and much, much less trying to teach!

Read this - Nutrient Lockout

Where is the love button!!! I got what ya ment JB!!!! Obviously if I’m flushing the ph won’t matter because it’s not taking in any nutes! :-)

my baby though.... that chart is great for hydro. It always swings but it swings in the good! That is for the chart I saved it to reference it. I think the part he doesn’t understand is that you and I are talking between multiple threads lol!

Jenniann04 · Mar 17, 2018

Gardenator said:
Flushing in in balanced water still makes the root ability to one retain water to bring hydrogen and oxygen into the plant both of which are factors in the breakdown of the residual dissolved salts (aka nutrients left in the plant that you want to flush out). The plants roots need the right ph in the water even for flush because the dwc media is ur water and your roots will not drink enough water to aid in the essential proccess of breaking down the nutrients into sugars that the plant eats and uses for its resin production durring the end of its life. How can there not be nutrients if you are flushing them out of the plants think about it. So nope not worried about nute lock out but want the nutes to actually break down into sugars turn into resin production and flush out the nutrients still left in the stalks flowers and leaves of your plant so it taste like shit after the first drag. Dont ph the water and look at the salt build up in ur dwc container. You are wrong

From my understanding, the only thing that effects water absorption is light. The more light the more water. The only thing that effects the oxygen absorption is tempature of the water. If the temp is to low the dissolvable oxyegen is to low and if the water temp is to high it decreases dissolvable oxygen in the water massively. Doesn’t matter how much bubblers you have if the water can not absorb it. H2O2 helps with that. As far as I have ever known ph has nothing to do with absorbtion of water. I mean if it was so acidic and it damaged the roots I could see that due to acid.

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