Bonsai Mums Help Needed

Discussion in 'Advanced Marijuana Cultivation' started by JSB99, Jan 13, 2018.

  1.  
    JSB99

    JSB99 Well-Known Member

    I decided to put my mums under the big light, and grow them out a bit. Then, I'm going to take some really good clones from each, and re-grow the mums. After some experience, I see ways I should've done things, and other things I shouldn't have done. I'm not sure what I'm going to do with the original mums. Maybe I can move them outside to grow this summer.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    SSGrower and SoCal Calyx like this.
  2.  
    SoCal Calyx

    SoCal Calyx Member

    Looking forward to hearing what you learned JSB. What are you looking to achieve with the new moms from clone?
     
    JSB99 likes this.
  3.  
    JSB99

    JSB99 Well-Known Member

    Instead of trimming everything lower than the top eight branches, I'll allow them to grow out. And, instead of having eight branches, I'll keep it to the four main branches that grow from the main stalk. Won't be able to get as many cuttings, but I'll still have plenty to suit my needs. I'm only going to be growing four plants at a time, so I really don't need access to 24 cuttings at a time. What this will do us allow me to keep my mum's real short. I'm thinking 4" to 6".

    Stay tuned :-)

    As a side note, I'm finding out that these have to be watered once or twice a day, because their containers are so small. But they need to be small to restrict the growth via making them root bound. I tried setting up drips, but because the small net pots fill up so quickly, it's difficult to dial in the right amount of time, and the flow to water them. Plus, sometimes each plant needs a specific amount, so it has to be dialed in to each plant. So, I gave up on that idea for now. I'm thinking about doing a wick-feed, so that I can use a small res beneath them. I just don't know how efficient they are at getting water to all the roots.
     
    SoCal Calyx likes this.
  4.  
    SoCal Calyx

    SoCal Calyx Member

    Oh wow, daily waterings huh? I hadn't realized that these bonsai moms would need that. But it makes sense with such a small container.

    I think I ended up with six inch square containers, that's all they had at the shop when I went.
     
    JSB99 likes this.
  5.  
    JSB99

    JSB99 Well-Known Member

    Some of it has to do with how much I'm feeding them, and how close the lights are. I have them rowing really aggressively right now. I keep the T5s and CFLs just a few inches away from the tops. Once I get them to the size I want, I'll back everything off, and then it'll probably be every other day, if that. Then I should be able to set up some drips, if I even need to.
     
    Lucky Luke and SoCal Calyx like this.
  6.  
    Lucky Luke

    Lucky Luke Well-Known Member

    interesting thread. Keep the up dates coming.
     
    JSB99 likes this.
  7.  
    Jenniann04

    Jenniann04 Active Member

    Awwww they are so cute!!!!! Lmmfao! I like how you have the set up for them. My house is like a green house and my dinning room is a grow room lol. Perks of living in Cali. My baby’s are growing on my kitchen counter in mini bubblers with T5s and I have two tents in dining room. One hydro grows and the other autoflower soil grows.
     
    SoCal Calyx and JSB99 like this.
  8.  
    JSB99

    JSB99 Well-Known Member

    A real "greenhouse" LOL! When they all get big, it'll be like the Amazon jungle while you're walking through your house! Lots of fresh oxygen for you ;)
     
  9.  
    JSB99

    JSB99 Well-Known Member

    Out of curiosity, how are you containing the light for all your plants out in the open? You want to contain any light leaks during lights out. Light leaks will cause your plants to turn hermaphrodite, which they'll also do if they're stressed too much. Basically, the plants try to pollinate themselves, to produce seeds, in a last ditch effort to save it's species. You want complete, uninterrupted, total blackout periods for your plants, especially during flower.

    Also something to watch out for, with your plants like that, are damaging bugs. You'll want to take some protective measures to try and avoid this. I spray insecticide around any opening to the grow room. You also want to get in the habit of checking for problems, daily. Bugs can do enormous damage, or death, in a very short period of time. Get yourself familiar with critters, how to identify, eradicate, and protect your plants. Here's a great guide for plant problems, and how to correct them...
    GrowWeedEasy Plant Problems

    Habits to get into:
    • Check your plants daily
    • Look under leaves, as this is where lots of bugs, like spider mites, like to live and eat your plants
    • Get a jewelers microscope (see below) as many of the bugs are very small, and cant always be seen with the naked eye
    • Have Neem oil spray and pyrethrum-based bug spray on-hand. You want to have these so that you can start treating your plants as soon as you discover pests. Spider mites are the WORST! They will destroy your entire crop! If you find these, take immediate action!
    • Absolutely do not go from an outside garden, or yard in general, to where your plants are. This is a surefire way to bring bugs, especially mites, into your grow area. Wash up, change your clothes, use a shop compressor to give yourself an air bath, outside, etc...
    I use two different jewelers microscopes, a 30x and a 120x. The 30x is really easy to pick up and see what you're looking for. I use the 120x for looking at trichomes to determine when to harvest.

    This might seem like a lot of daily work, but once you get into the habit of checking your plants, you'll find that it just takes a minute or so. Its a small effort, to prevent catastrophes.

    Hope this helps :-)
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2018
    Jenniann04 and SoCal Calyx like this.
  10.  
    Gardenator

    Gardenator Member

    I am thinking of making a mum bubble bucket for 4 mum strains to stay in circulation they are my favs :) and I have shaved roots in my buckets before and they fully come back in about 2 weeks with a nice 1ml/gal genhydro microbio and 1ml/gal Fox Farm root drench ph'd. But i am wondering if spaced in a container nicely can i do this with 4 mums like you have except in a bubble bucket? My thoughts are I can as long as I prune properly with a little bit of work do you think they will come out decently in one container? I dont mess with soil and i dont use any media just 2 inch neoprene collars and 2 inch net pots from start to finish. So I have to restrict them to one 5 gal container I think. I appologise for the unorganized train of thought here but i had an idea of what i was going tp do and then i read this thread and wanted to brainstorm with someone else before I make up my mind. Right now i just pull clones on week 2 of bloom but i have 4 keepers in the cloner lol and i need some advice :)
     
    JSB99 likes this.
  11.  
    JSB99

    JSB99 Well-Known Member

    There are a few reasons to keep mums in soil, not hydro
    • If your pump dies, or you have a power outage, plants in a DWC will start dying in as little as 15 minutes. The roots drown because there's no dissolved oxygen being added to the water.
    • Growth, especially in veg, can be explosive with DWC. This can make it difficult to keep up with. Remember, along with the plants in your grow, you now have many more to attend to each day. It can become overwhelming.
    • Soil is much more stable than hydro. If there's an issue with the water, pH levels, nutrient levels, etc...plants in a DWC react very quickly. Soil acts as a buffer to many problems, and will protect your plant.
    That's just with mother plants in general. You wouldn't be able to grow mums in a dwc, because one of the most important parts of keeping mums so small is to contain the roots, and make them "root bound". You start off with a 1"x1" square propogation tray cell. Once the sprout fills that up and become root bound, you move it to a 2"x2" cell, then 3x3, and finally, 4x4. Each year they need to be root pruned to keep them going.
     
  12.  
    Gardenator

    Gardenator Member


    Okay so I have a couple of responses to what you are saying here in objection to what you pose for problems with dwc mums. Okay so I do understand the risks involved with the dwc as to power and ph and nutrientnlevels as i only grow in hydro now and use no media, the air pumps on everything I have are 6v dc air pumps all hooked to a dc power inverter that is also hooked on a rely hardwired to a m18 milwaukee impact battery pack i made myself from old m18 impact and drill batteries that is always charged on a auto shut off milwaukee charger so when the power goes out they switch to battery power and it will run all the pumps for at least 24hrs. So I am not worried about my roots drowning at all in home everyday after work andbi check every bucket for that reason it happened before and I was able to bring it back by cutting the roots back to the basket and vegging it on light food with FF root drench in the solution. I also only grow in hydro which means i check everything everyday I have a tds ppm meter and a ph pen both calibrated in the appropriate temp calibration solutions for each meter and a back up fluid for checking the ph that is color coded to each ph level. I use a specific amount per gal of the gen hydro floratrio hardwater series its half the strength recomended by gen hydro. Both of these levels I check every day along with the water levels which are kept up every day with ph'd nutrient solution and fresh water for 7 days until a complete drain and change is done with fresh nutes and ph'd water on every single container I have vegging blooming cloning all of them. My light schedule is set up so i get half the time its on by the time I get home from work so I am in there every day for a couple hours. I combat dwc problems as my regular schedule and is only be adding one container to my normal daily checks. The part I am concerned with is the 4 plants to one container small enough to root bound the plants but that explosive growth happens in the roots as well and becoming root bound in a 5 gal container for 4 mums growing 2ce as fast as to soil shouldnt be a problem root bounding them in a short square 3-5 gal container. I'm more concerned with I'd be shaving those roots to the basket every 4-6 weeks depending on how light I feed em because i was thinking 1/4 nutes which will slow the growth rate as well in a dwc I have found there is a nice line between perfect and nute burn with dwc and I have used the same containers over and over again so i have my nutrient levels fairly well figured out and it only varies a small amount from strain to strain and they all respond about tye same to my nute schedule. So that part might break into my time a little bit more but I think its doable. As for on top the veg growth will be significant but if I prune once every 2 weeks and pull clones every 4 they should stay in control i think.
    As for using soil I know it acts as a buffer to a lot of the problems by growing in dwc but I have absolutely no experience with it at all so to me that is kind of a risk on keeping my favs around growing in something I dont have the food or equipment for I dont have the soil know where to begin with it and I don't really want the cross contamination from it either as it drastically can effect the ph of my solution in the other containers and effect the nutrients as well. Also different micro bacteria are in soil that are not in my solution which could be harmful to everything I have established. Laws in my state also require it to be indoors we have a certain allotment of mature and immature plants but with dwc I can maintain a small amount of plants within our legal allotment on a perpetual cycle hoping the bloom room gives me a pound every 60 days and in order to maintain that schedule and be perpetual i am pruning and pulling clones and checking everything on a regular basis the risks of dwc don't bother me as its how i grow but i also dont think the mums in soil could meet that demanding schedule I'm kind of hopinf for the explosiveish growth from dwc and ready for its problems I think it can be done lol I am going to make a post and keep it up to date. I wanna know if i can do it now because you pose a valid arguement but i think I can lol
     
    JSB99 likes this.
  13.  
    JSB99

    JSB99 Well-Known Member

    It sounds like you have a lot of things covered, in case of a disaster. Yes, you certainly can keep mothers in DWC. An advantage of that is not having to water daily, or keep soil around. I was just pointing out some common problems the ordinary grower might think about, when chosing their medium.

    As far as keeping them small, it's not going to hurt to try. But, I really want to see the pics if you do this! I'd like to see how they do. I'm predicting that they'll outgrow the lid fairly quickly, but I've never tried it, so what do I know :)
     
    Gardenator and SoCal Calyx like this.
  14.  
    Underground Scientist

    Underground Scientist Well-Known Member

    Nice lookin' plants
     
    JSB99 likes this.
  15.  
    Nugachino

    Nugachino Well-Known Member

    Hmm. I revegged a plant a little while back. That was about a foot tall. So a lot bigger than these. But, I like the idea of being able to keep good genetic expressions in this manner.

    It's easier than having to play the genetic lottery with beans. Hoping to get very similar results to what you got before.
     
    JSB99 likes this.
  16.  
    Jenniann04

    Jenniann04 Active Member

    I always put my baby’s on 24 light. They stay on my counter inter a T5. Once she gets a little bigger I am putting her in a tent. Right now both of my tents are full of plants. I have a set of plants that I am currently flushing. Once I harvest them I will move her to the tent and put her in a bigger bucket. I sprayed organic insecticides on her just Incase bugs get in my house. I like her in my counter because I check on her in the morning and at night. Always seems like when I first start out in dwc the ph swing is crazy so I have easy access. I have two auto flowers in one tent and two non auto on 12/12 in another tent. There is one exhaust fan t’ed to both tents. In the pics you San see both tents. In one tent I have the autoflowers in soil the other tent has the flowered ones and my baby on counter. I just tipped the baby because I’m going to top and fim her. All of these plants were grown on my counter like the one baby. E0ED6D08-87C6-4303-BD95-D0DA35178C6B.jpeg E235DCC4-016E-4CD8-9FF8-C975E76EE8C8.jpeg 66F4B81F-2E2B-4842-BA32-A7D17569C15D.jpeg 555C5A01-BF84-47ED-B305-CDC9F2888C64.jpeg 554D53A8-9BEE-4357-A244-B999BEDB3761.jpeg
     
    JSB99 likes this.
  17.  
    JSB99

    JSB99 Well-Known Member

    Very nice!!! You've got your hands full :)

    As far as your pH swings, make sure you're checking pH after adding nutes. Nutes will change the pH. Also, if you're not giving nutes, don't bother balancing the water. Balanced water is only required by the plants to be able to take in nutrients, and transport them throughout the plants.
     
  18.  
    Jenniann04

    Jenniann04 Active Member

    I check ph each day. I only add nutes when I change res once a week. The ph swing is every day. When I do change the water I ph the water then add nutes then re check ph. The hydro nutes I have don’t mess with the ph that I have ever noticed. Every day when I check the ph it is 6.8 ish.... I adjust down to 5.5 then the next day it is back to about 6.2-6.8 and I readjust again. This has always happened when I first start out during aggressive veg and they are smaller. I just assumed the more nutes they take up the more the swing due to biproduct. I don’t notice as much of a swing when flowering though. Maybe a .2 change in flowering a day which is fixed when I top off with phed water. But I am OCD and it gives me my OCD fix when dealing with multiple grows at once LOL
     
    JSB99 likes this.
  19.  
    Gardenator

    Gardenator Member

    As far as any water you water or spray your plants with it should always be ph balanced because unless you are using reverse osmosis and there is absolutely no nutrients in your medium you will still find deficiency problems extremely fast in dwc amd a few days in soil with non ph balanced water with or without the nutrients in it there will still be dissolved solids the plant will take from the water to help make amino acids to make photosynthesis possible. Always always always please ph balance your water for your media nuted or otherwise this is really a very important thing as your roots cannot break down its food or the oxygen incthe water as well unless it is in optimal ph range for your media. This is so very important JSB espite what you may have read against balancing fresh water I promise.
     
  20.  
    JSB99

    JSB99 Well-Known Member

    That's a pretty small container, which makes adjusting things very touchy. Are you using tap water? If so, can you post the TDS and pH right out of he tap? Also, fill a glass with tap, and leave it out for a day. After that, take note of the drop in TDS, if any.

    When you add water, you really don't have to check the pH before adding nutes, because he pH doesn't matter at that point.

    When you change your water, wait a few hours, or even a day, before adding nutes. I would also change the water every few days, especially when the plant gets bigger. It's a really small amount of water. See if that helps.
     
    Gardenator likes this.

Share This Page