best nutrients to use in hydro

Tim1987 said:

I think the topic, is subjective.
I believe in quality. But price too.
Also your individual needs in your garden.


For instance.
Mine is dirt cheap. $70 Australian, for a 5 litre kit.
It suits my needs excellently!
I don't have to use any ph up/down. It buffers my tap water fine. I love that.
I'm in 100% coir. I use it from seedling, right through to flower.
No supplements. No calmag, pk booster, nothing.
View attachment 4120014 View attachment 4120015
A 1 litre kit from Advanced Nutrients, costs $40 Australian.

My seeds broke ground on 28/01/2018.
Flipped 15/03/2018.

View attachment 4120020

I think just finding a nutrient, that suits your needs, is most important. Doesn't matter the brand.

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Here for the 5 liter of h&g is about 85 (us) at the hydro store but that is just for the part A and B then you have to buy the rest of the bottles.

And I agree and the plants agree. They dont know where their food comes from and they dont care.

rkymtnman said:

i'm not a nutes expert by far but i read the website last nite: if the nutrient analysis is correct, then it's low in Mg, no Ca, and alot of micros are missing. and no silica, no sulfur too.

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You add the cal and you get the sulfer and mag from the epsom salt and I gots a big jug of silicon. But yeah the mega has the kelp, amino, silicon, b vitamins in it already so thats a bonus

Bernie420 said:

Without double checking I thought that they had the same micro's just different ratio's. I forgot I typed them down. Just the sulfer and silica in the megacrop is different I guess. No biggy.

CHEM-GRO 4-20 HYDROPONIC FORMULA 4-20-39

GUARANTEED ANALYSIS

Total Nitrogen (N) ………………………………………......……………4.00%
Nitrate Nitrogen…………………………….............……………3.50%
Ammoniacal Nitrogen………………............………………….0.50%
Available Phosphoric Acid (P205)………………………………20.00%
Soluble Potash (K20)………………….....…………………………… 39.00%
Available Magnesium as (Mg)………..……………………………..0.35%

TRACE ELEMENTS

Boron as (B) ………………………………………………........…………….0.20%
Copper as (Cu)………………………………………........………………… 0.05%
Iron (Chelated) as (Fe).. ……………………………………………..0.41%
Manganese as (Mn)…………………………........…………………………0.22%
Molybdenum as (Mo) ………………........………………………………0.01%
Zinc as (Zn)…………………………………........…………………………….0.05%

Derived From:
Potassium Nitrate, Potassium Phosphate, Muriate of Potash,
Iron Chelate (DTPA), Boric Acid, Iron Sulfate, Magnesium Sulfate,
Manganese Sulfate, Copper Chelate (EDTA), Zinc Chelate (EDTA), Zinc Sulfate
Molybdic Acid
=============================================================

MEGACROP 10-5-14

GUARANTEED ANALYSIS

Total Nitrogen (N) …………………………………………………10.00%
Nitrate Nitrogen………………………….......………………9.60%
Ammoniacal Nitrogen……………………………….......….0.4%
Available Phosphoric Acid (P205)……………………5.5%
Soluble Potash (K20)……………………………………………… 14.5%
Calcium (Ca)............................6.5%
Available Magnesium as (Mg)……………………………..1.9%

TRACE ELEMENTS
Sulfer..................................1.1%
Boron as (B) ……………………………………………………………...0.08%
Copper as (Cu)………………………………………………………..… 0.05%
Iron (Chelated) as (Fe).. ……………………………..0.08%
Manganese as (Mn)……………………………………………..………0.08%
Molybdenum as (Mo) …………………………………………….……0.01%
Zinc as (Zn)………………………………………………………..……….0.11%
Silicon (S)............................0.1%


Derived From:
Potassium Nitrate, Potassium Phosphate, Muriate of Potash,
Iron Chelate (DTPA), Boric Acid, Iron Sulfate, Magnesium Sulfate,
Manganese Sulfate, Copper Chelate (EDTA), Zinc Chelate (EDTA), Zinc Sulfate
Molybdic Acid

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maybe this was mentioned but

the chem grow is meant to be mixed with calcium nitrate which is where the calcium comes from in that mix

calcium and sulfur (and silica) are incompatible in most cases in a concentrate

that's why most fertilizers come in at least two parts

theyre are a few 1 part fetilizers and those products have something they've done (don't ask me to explain I don't recall) to allow the sulfur and calcium to exist in one liquid concentrate ... but id be shocked if you find that as a possibility in a dry salt fertilizer

so my first concern would be how do they manage to put calcium in the same powder as the sulfur...(or is the mega crop a liquid product and I missed it?)

the silica perhaps theyre able to use it in trace amounts and get away with it but I wouldn't be surprised if it creates some insoluble materials when you mix it

I also want to point out one more bit of info that I find curious..... the mega crop lists Ca 6.5%... but when you go down to the "derived from " list theres no mention of any regents containing calcium

is the mega crop a 2 part mix? did I miss something? wheres the calcium source?

one last bit, im not personally a fan of adding organic material such as kelp or aminos to my reservoir in hydro..... it creates some nasty shit that can lead to problems in your reservoir...but im a sterile hydro guy and im not one to use BB and such in hydro, that's just me

I prefer a crystal clear, sterile reservoir, my 2 cents...not everyone will agree and theres more than one weay to get good results

so for all of those reason id likely go with chem gro personally for hydro

in soil maybe the megacrop might be better due to the additional organic additives (kelp, b12, aminos)...my rule is organics go in soil!!! not in hydro!!

im4satori said:

maybe this was mentioned but

the chem grow is meant to be mixed with calcium nitrate which is where the calcium comes from in that mix

calcium and sulfur (and silica) are incompatible in most cases in a concentrate

that's why most fertilizers come in at least two parts

theyre are a few 1 part fetilizers and those products have something they've done (don't ask me to explain I don't recall) to allow the sulfur and calcium to exist in one liquid concentrate ... but id be shocked if you find that as a possibility in a dry salt fertilizer

so my first concern would be how do they manage to put calcium in the same powder as the sulfur...(or is the mega crop a liquid product and I missed it?)

the silica perhaps theyre able to use it in trace amounts and get away with it but I wouldn't be surprised if it creates some insoluble materials when you mix it

I also want to point out one more bit of info that I find curious..... the mega crop lists Ca 6.5%... but when you go down to the "derived from " list theres no mention of any regents containing calcium

is the mega crop a 2 part mix? did I miss something? wheres the calcium source?

one last bit, im not personally a fan of adding organic material such as kelp or aminos to my reservoir in hydro..... it creates some nasty shit that can lead to problems in your reservoir...but im a sterile hydro guy and im not one to use BB and such in hydro, that's just me

I prefer a crystal clear, sterile reservoir, my 2 cents...not everyone will agree and theres more than one weay to get good results

so for all of those reason id likely go with chem gro personally for hydro

in soil maybe the megacrop might be better due to the additional organic additives (kelp, b12, aminos)...my rule is organics go in soil!!! not in hydro!!

Click to expand...

ooops I copied the chem-gro info of their ingredients then just recopied it for the megacrop and then just changed the numbers for the megacrop so i didnt have to type out all the big words and added what was missing because the chem-gro doesnt have calcium in it. And then I forgot about the derived from at the bottom not being in sync with the megacrop since it came from the chem-gro. So I just deleted the derived from part of the mega crop part as to not cause anymore confusion.

Sooo the megacrops calcium is from calcium nitrate.....its a one part dry fertilizer. as far a s the sulfer wouldnt the megacrop use epsom salt for their mag and wouldnt the sulfer come from that = epsom salt? as for silica the raw brand has a dry silica dont know what its called off hand it might be something like that. And then theres the calcium nitrate. All available in dry form. You can google megacrop and see what it is. Im sure you have and word on the street is you know all this stuff. I cant really imagine not running biostimulates in my rez. i am going to try and not use amino acid any more with my current nutes or with the chem-gro as i dont like buying it anymore. You know what all those things do, its all goodness. The one thing you definitely dont want to add to your rez is a fish emulsion product. I tried the bio bizz fish product they have and let me tell you it mucked and fucked up my rez with a think coat of shit all over in just a day. But the fish mix has alot of aminos in it and I use it to foliar feed sometimes for the nitrogen just never in a hydro rez, dirt for sure, not hydro.

im sure they've done there due process and figured out how to do it.
general hydro also has the maxibloom line which also contains a complete fertilizer all in one (which Id forgotten/spaced on my previous post...stoner brain fart) so it can clearly be done....

maybe since the micro nutes are from chelate and not from for example zinc sulfate, copper sulfate and so on they get by without the solubility issues

that's also a very low sulfur % they managed to achieve by avoiding potassium sulfate and for the most part magnesium sulfate ..
I know they've got magnesium sulfate listed on the derived from list but its got to be a very very small amount given the low % of sulfur

but ya it looks like a good product based on the label


as for the kelp, I prefer to foliar feed it and keep the reservoir clean

mega crop 5 grams per gallon

N 132ppm
P 29 ppm
K 154 ppm
Ca 86 ppm
Mg 25 ppm

so your going to need about 1 gram (1/4 tsp) per gallon Epsom salt to balance it



comparatively

chem grow per gallon
2 grams mix
2 grams calnite

N 103
P 47
K 171


so you can see theres a good degree of difference in the 2 fertilizers with the mega crop have more of a std veg ratio while the chem grow has lower N higher P and ample K... which is generally a bloom mix

im4satori said:

maybe this was mentioned but

the chem grow is meant to be mixed with calcium nitrate which is where the calcium comes from in that mix

calcium and sulfur (and silica) are incompatible in most cases in a concentrate

that's why most fertilizers come in at least two parts

theyre are a few 1 part fetilizers and those products have something they've done (don't ask me to explain I don't recall) to allow the sulfur and calcium to exist in one liquid concentrate ... but id be shocked if you find that as a possibility in a dry salt fertilizer

so my first concern would be how do they manage to put calcium in the same powder as the sulfur...(or is the mega crop a liquid product and I missed it?)

the silica perhaps theyre able to use it in trace amounts and get away with it but I wouldn't be surprised if it creates some insoluble materials when you mix it

I also want to point out one more bit of info that I find curious..... the mega crop lists Ca 6.5%... but when you go down to the "derived from " list theres no mention of any regents containing calcium

is the mega crop a 2 part mix? did I miss something? wheres the calcium source?

one last bit, im not personally a fan of adding organic material such as kelp or aminos to my reservoir in hydro..... it creates some nasty shit that can lead to problems in your reservoir...but im a sterile hydro guy and im not one to use BB and such in hydro, that's just me

I prefer a crystal clear, sterile reservoir, my 2 cents...not everyone will agree and theres more than one weay to get good results

so for all of those reason id likely go with chem gro personally for hydro

in soil maybe the megacrop might be better due to the additional organic additives (kelp, b12, aminos)...my rule is organics go in soil!!! not in hydro!!

Click to expand...

Thanks for this .

Side by side nute comparisons can not be done by noobs lol

I apologize if you arent.

But as far as i know mega crop is basically dry form of advanced nutrients.

As a guy who has used advanced for the last 5-7 years

I like the chem gro better so far

Ymmv

I like how i can tailor my mix way easy

Time to taper the plant down no probs

Need to boost in bloom no probs

Plus i like how user friendly it is for top ups

No more ph down needed cor top ups

And as im4satori said ITS CLEAR


And dissovles very fast RAW nutes left sediments chem grow hasnt that ive seen


Been making my plants very greasy
My rooms been smelling like a fruit basket haha

Apology accepted if that was directed at myself.

Going to go get my chem-gro it came in yesterday. Going to start a flower run with them tomorrow. 50 gallon ro water using the new nutes might add a couple shots of silica, a little humic acid and I think thats it.

How often are we doing water changes with these nutes???

I dont know about the humic

Might want to test it after you do a run. but
I dont know what your experience level is

I only apologized if you weren't a noob lol

But asking about res changes doesn't really indicate experience so i dont know what to think

Not trying to be rude

How often you change your res is up to you and your environment

If you want to try and tailor feed them you would ch ange out weekly.

If not then you can go longer

All up to how you want to run your show

weekly!!!!!


humic acid is not for hydro and wont do anything but make a mess...
if you want to use those in your resevior youll want fulvic acid, not humic

humic is for soil only and always... maybe it might work in coco im not sure but id go with fulvic either way

Cold$moke said:

I dont know about the humic

Might want to test it after you do a run. but
I dont know what your experience level is

I only apologized if you weren't a noob lol

But asking about res changes doesn't really indicate experience so i dont know what to think

Not trying to be rude

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Right on I was just wondering what everybody was doing. I used to change weekly but I do ten days now. I'm gunna stick with ten days might run it out two weeks. we'll see.

im4satori said:

weekly!!!!!


humic acid is not for hydro and wont do anything but make a mess...
if you want to use those in your resevior youll want fulvic acid, not humic

humic is for soil only and always... maybe it might work in coco im not sure but id go with fulvic either way

Click to expand...

After reading what you wrote I guess it makes sense with the organic molecule not being readily available to the plant but I do add microbes at the water change to keep the root rot away. It also helps against ph swings. Ive been using it for a long time so right or wrong, and Im sure im wrong. The mess isnt a problem. I only use 1ml per ten gallons so its just a taste of humic not a feeding.

Taken right from the npk website about raw humic acid.
RAW HUMIC ACID: chelate
RAW Humic Acid contains 59% Humic Acids derived from Leonardite which is the most concentrated, water Soluble humic acid product on the market today. In nature, humic acid has a buffering effect on the pH of soils. It can raise the pH of acid soils and lower the pH of alkaline soils. RAW Humic Acid is also great for hydroponics applications, especially when added to RO filtered water. RAW Humic acid is a natural chelator and is a beneficial supplement to all feeding schedules. Works in conjunction with all nutrient and feeding programs.

Cold$moke said:

Side by side nute comparisons can not be done by noobs lol

I apologize if you arent.

But as far as i know mega crop is basically dry form of advanced nutrients.

As a guy who has used advanced for the last 5-7 years

I like the chem gro better so far

Ymmv

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What hydro method are you using??

That could have an influence on one nute over another. Im guessing maybe one method could provide more,,,,, not just DO, but magnetic attraction, too.

Water flowing over waterfalls has the most measured DO AND is the most bioavailable to humans. Pretty sure that characteristic holds true for all living things/organisms that require water to survive. well, that's the knowledge that I am trying to simulate via inexpensive DIY

im4satori said:

weekly!!!!!


humic acid is not for hydro and wont do anything but make a mess...
if you want to use those in your resevior youll want fulvic acid, not humic

humic is for soil only and always... maybe it might work in coco im not sure but id go with fulvic either way

Click to expand...

BioAg Ful Power is supposed to be the best stuff. cold pressed, very clear, etc. I tried a bottle and really couldn't see a huge difference. I do diffrent strains each grow so it's hard to make an accurate assessment of it.

I use the spent res water to feed the moms and anything else, clones etc in the green room...drain to waste. This saves on fertilizer in the green room and it works just fine. This practice also prevents fuck ups from killing the moms.

I noticed that in higher elevations less fertilizer can be used compared to sea level. This must be because nitrogen dissipates faster at higher altitudes. When I start a new op the rule of thumb is use 1/6 of what is recommended on the instructions per gallon of water recommended for outdoor soil grows for mixing the res. This is enough to start and it can be adjusted from there. Haste makes waste. I use dolomite lime as a ph stabilizer. I can get away with this because I grow in rock. Dolomite lime has to be adjusted in like fertilizer. I take one gallon of the water I'm using and ph down it with dolomite lime to about 5.5-6 ph. Then scale it to the res.

Every once in a while I'll run fresh water through for a cycle and see what changes the table may be causing before adding anything. I won't throw this water away, I'll just balance and add the fertilizer the next day.

I dump the res every five to seven days. With seedlings a run up to two weeks wouldn't hurt the res, but as the roots develop, the more the plant excretes back into the res and when you are seeing larger top ups, it's time to change the res more frequently. It can be used in the green room.

I foliage feed right from the res. I also shower them with fresh water also. Plants don't care much for having the underside of their leaves wet...so always spray downward on them.

The part about what fertilizer to use, I've found that as long as you get the numbers somewhere around correct, even Miracle Grow can grow a nice bud in hydro. It was costing me fifty a month just for fertilizer but that bucket of Miracle Grow lasted until the expiry date, potent fertilizer. I liked how it turned the res blue,,,lmao. I even tried that stuff that from the Dollar store, it turned the res green So just about anything will work as long as the numbers are correct. Echo bloom was the nineties fertilizer.

Then...after it's all happening, you can set a timer to wake you up from the stupor every five to seven days

Bernie420 said:

After reading what you wrote I guess it makes sense with the organic molecule not being readily available to the plant but I do add microbes at the water change to keep the root rot away. It also helps against ph swings. Ive been using it for a long time so right or wrong, and Im sure im wrong. The mess isnt a problem. I only use 1ml per ten gallons so its just a taste of humic not a feeding.

Taken right from the npk website about raw humic acid.
RAW HUMIC ACID: chelate
RAW Humic Acid contains 59% Humic Acids derived from Leonardite which is the most concentrated, water Soluble humic acid product on the market today. In nature, humic acid has a buffering effect on the pH of soils. It can raise the pH of acid soils and lower the pH of alkaline soils. RAW Humic Acid is also great for hydroponics applications, especially when added to RO filtered water. RAW Humic acid is a natural chelator and is a beneficial supplement to all feeding schedules. Works in conjunction with all nutrient and feeding programs.

Click to expand...

idk man...id do a search on humic acid vs fulvic acid and see if theres any other info that supports humic acid in hydro other than that from this brand

maybe they've done something to make it available thru some form of chelate idk but that's a new one on me and im not sure why theyd bother since fulvic acid is available

its been a long long time since I read the info so im not going to do a good job explaining it but as I recall humic acid normally requires an organic break down before its available which normally happens in soil

maybe you BB are helping with that im not sure...either way fulvic acid would be a better choice for hydro

as far as you reservoir changes...theyres guys that never change the reservoir for the entire grow.... but the less frequently you change the reservoir the more prone you will be to root disease... if your feeling good about your use of BB and your plants are healthy and you can go longer so be it

to me...not changing the reservoir is lazy unless your short on water... but that's just me and my 2 cents

one thing that's for sure,,, theres more than one way to get it done so my personal opinions are just that based on my experience... some people have different experiences and different environmental conditions that may be different than mine

I think Ive offered what I can, good luck!