Best LED for 3x3 flowering

Danielson999 · Aug 19, 2017

nc208 said:
Your comparing two different fixtures here, the timber one comes with 6 cobs versus the Rapidled one which comes with 12, they have different driver setups so both lights are 600w, not quite apples to apples comparison.
If you were to build an Identical kit on RapidLED of the timber 300w kit you would see prices of 399.99 of timber vs. 274.40 on RapidLED for the exact same parts, Plus Rapid LED gives 10% off your first order, so 400 vs 250 is a pretty big price difference.
*This does not include the canopy rails on either system, I picked ones of timbers kits not their framework for easier comparison.*

I'm not comparing anything. If you want to get into specifics it doesn't matter that one has more cobs or less cobs. The Timber uses less cobs but they are more expensive cobs, the heatsinks are more expensive too...I don't really care. Some people will prefer one over the other for their growing style.

The entire point is that somebody came on here stating that RapidLed prices 'murder' Timber prices. I simply stated that if he had taken the time to add the cost of the frame and reflectors to make it an even comparison, Timber's light is cheaper and it comes completely assembled and ready to plug in.
As I have said and this is getting old really fast....both companies offer very good prices and excellent support. If you want something fully assembled you have no choice but to buy from Timber. If you want do part or all of the assembly yourself then buy from either site...catch them when there's a sale on or whatever. You'll get a good deal from both.

kristoffolese · Aug 20, 2017

Yodaweed said:
If you are looking for the most bang for your buck stop looking at LEDs, they are the most overpriced per photon of any lighting source besides plasma. They also don't have a great spectrum for growing cannabis unless you are willing to have several supplemental lights.

When you factor in;
1) Not having to replace bulbs, not having to buy replacement after replacement saves a LOT of money long term.
2) Electricity savings - same/more PAR wattage for much less electricity.
3) The lights LAST. We're talking years and years- with little to no degradation of light intensity.
4) You dont need to use AC (at least I dont) with a good LED, because they are so cool running. HID's & Gavitas run hot, usually requiring AC.
Its easy to criticize without offering a better alternative (cough, cough - REPUBLICANS!- cough, cough) but if qb288's are so terrible, show me a better light with a cheaper overall cost.

kristoffolese · Aug 20, 2017

MMJ Dreaming 99 said:
I don't think Timber is that over priced. I like HLG but I heard they raised prices a bit. Kind and Black Dog are probably small companies. HLG, Timber Rapid and Cob Kits are probably one or two people companies.

I seriously think that only tiny companies will survive in lights. Colorado is cracking down and was probably one of the biggest markets for lights. The grow supply stores are like ghost towns and SE and DE HPS prices have been dropping because they are notg selling many lights anymore.

A year ago plus a few months I went into a grow store and they had an order on at least 2 pallets of $60,000 or more of Gavitas. Those days are over in Co.. Nevada will not pick up the slack either.

Man, what an expensive overhyped light... Gavitas sure fizzled out fast...

kristoffolese · Aug 20, 2017

Yodaweed said:
If you are looking for the most bang for your buck stop looking at LEDs, they are the most overpriced per photon of any lighting source besides plasma. They also don't have a great spectrum for growing cannabis unless you are willing to have several supplemental lights.

Also... arent you the one who was loudly saying how WEAK & TERRIBLE quantum boards would turn out to be? Last year, yes? Wasnt it you who talked non-stop smack when Robin from hlg shared the board's #'s? Calling it bs, "...no way 3watt diodes will have the intensity... blah, blah, blah" If not Im sorry... but will look it up anyway lol Itd be weird if TWO guys with the word "yoda" in the name, were mindless opponents if led lights. USE a qb288... THEN come talk to us. Because thats what I did

They kick ASS. A 135watt QB288 is kicking a 400watt hid's butt. The footprint IS smaller... but not by nuch, & the area it does cover, is getting over 1000 PAR watts & requires co2 for the plant to even process how much light these babies put out. Talk all the smack you want - I have first hand knowledge. I bought my light after seeing a friend's side-by-side, qb288 vs 400watt MH/HPS grow, in a 2.5X2ft space. The HID pulled just over 0.5 grams per watt... the hlg qb288 pulled a full gram per watt+, except on a run of a lower yielding gsc, which pulled 0.8g/w... but thats almost double what it was yieldingn under hid lighting. LED growing ALSO produces smaller stems & stalks & a higher % of bud weight. In addition to that, there is ZERO doubt, that LED's produce noticeably more frost & trich production. Shoot, even the chinsy-cheap Viparspectra lays down more frost than an HID! Seriously! They dont have enough red or PAR wattage to give any special yield... but the yield they DO give is frostier. Im sorry, it just IS. Weigh an EXACT side by side led vs hid grow - before AND after removing the thick, woody stalks & stems in the center of the buds... youll find then, that the HIDs REEEALLY gets murdered, then. Now Im not a fan of overpriced LED's - Kind, Timber, Blackdog... but Id WAY rather have one of those, than even a DE HID.

kristoffolese · Aug 20, 2017

nc208 said:
Your comparing two different fixtures here, the timber one comes with 6 cobs versus the Rapidled one which comes with 12, they have different driver setups so both lights are 600w, not quite apples to apples comparison.
If you were to build an Identical kit on RapidLED of the timber 300w kit you would see prices of 399.99 of timber vs. 274.40 on RapidLED for the exact same parts, Plus Rapid LED gives 10% off your first order, so 400 vs 250 is a pretty big price difference.
*This does not include the canopy rails on either system, I picked ones of timbers kits not their framework for easier comparison.*

Rapid led kits come with WHATEVER YOU WANT THEM TO CONE WITH. Theit options listed on their website are starting points. They will help u construct what you want/need... why the hard on against rapidled? I assumed their awesomeness was common knowledge... but apparently, Timber has their lackeys out in force, shilling their overpriced product shamelessly, & talking smack about better, less expensive lights... if you want vero29's fine... but you have to be a gullible fool to believe you'll get a veri29 or cree 3590 COB setup anywhere near as cheaply as you will if you build it yourself - THATS THE POINT!!! Duhh! *smack on your forehead*

kristoffolese · Aug 20, 2017

nc208 said:
Your missing the point "this rated at the top your speaking of" is made up. That is the point,there is no scientific proof behind those top products lists. They are put together by the magazines or light makers to sell you their light.

No... it is NOT, you damn fool! Take 5 mins and research the top rated leds - HIGH TIMES THEMSELVES have rated blackdog & kind as top led lights. You are talking out of your ass - educate yourself! I am telling you FACT. They ARE highly rated lights. If you disagree - you prove your ignorance - because there are MULTIPLE 3rd party reviews & top 10 lists that say exactly what I am telling you. Do you work for Timber? Or are you just a "Trump" type, who refuses to back down or acknowledge factual information - REALITY, because your fragile ego cant take being wrong? Well Im not arguing with an idiot who wont acknowledge fact. Ignored.

kristoffolese · Aug 20, 2017

Marky Bluntz said:
The best and cheapest light fixture is a DIY. When you buy ready made fixtures you are paying extra for labor. If you can do it yourself why would you want to pay for labor? You pick out the components you want to use, not what a company wants to use.

I personally would never buy a ready made light but if I did I would def go with timber. Their new fixtures that they ship out now are badass. They upgraded the aluminum for the frames and upgraded heatsinks for the COBs.

And to the guy who claims Black Dog and KIND are the best lights, please do some actual research. You will quickly see why that's false.

IM NOT SAYING THEY ARE THE BEST LIGHTS!!! Open your eyes and read what i said. I said, "they are rated as the top- or near the top- led lights, by many different people..". I
I did not say that I agree. I KNOW that a diy light can be better - for less $. But the fact remains - look it up. You will find SEVERAL 3rd party reviewers who say that Kind & Blackdog ARE among the best (or ARE the best leds. My point in pointing this out, was to correct the person who said they "suck". That is false. They do not suck. Many ppl are pullig a gram/watt or more with them. But not many $1500- $2000 lights DO suck. However, with a $1500 budget, ANYONE could blow Kind or blackdog or timber away with a self made diy light. You dont have the overhead they do or the production costs. THAT was/is my point. But I seem to be in the twilight zone, where American citizens seemingly cannot understand basic english writing. Where, in ANY post, did I say that I think Kind is better than a self made diy? I said the opposite - that they arent worth the money, when compared to what u can get if i diy. But ppl seem to get butt hurt if you tell them their light isnt the best. Point of fact - your grow isnt going to be any better than your weakest link, anyway. A lot of ppl dont even NEED the PAR they are running, because they arent running the co2 to help their plants use the "excess" PAR wattage being produces. The BEST lighting is wasted in many/most grow rooms, because if this. If you arent going to optimize your entire grow... a super badass, 1400 PAR led is overkill. Anyway, howl & spit & piss and moan all you like... Im done with this conversation

kristoffolese · Aug 20, 2017

chakup said:
With the qb price raise they're alot less appealing. Basic math still shows Timber is on par/cheaper.
I find it funny all of the "smart guys" arguing for rapid and not going where they should- a true diy will be cheaper if you shop and source. End of story. Beyond that basic math isn't hard of comparing apples to apples, frames etc.

Not going where they SHOULD?! You are absolutely a timber employee - u should change your status to "advertiser" lol

kristoffolese · Aug 20, 2017

nc208 said:
Who hails Black Dog and Kind as the best lights? I've only seen those claims on their websites or magazines like High Times who BD and Kind PAY to have that stuff written. There's nothing that stops each company from claiming theirs is the greatest and how everything else sucks.

They pay to run adds... they DONT pay for the opinion of the writers. HighTimes tries to appeal to a BROAD audience... the diy community is not broad. So they didnt even include diy's in their list of leds they reviewed. I dont care for this policy, but the fact remains - Timbers leds WERE included in the leds HT reviewed... and THEY said that Black Dog & Kind were better. Not I. I simply correctly informed you guys, that NO, they dont "suck". Is there REALLY some idiot out there who would turn down a chance to use. $1500 Black Dog LED to grow with, if it were given to you? I would turn away Viparspectra if it was free, I would turn away mars hydro & every other budget "sub-500 PAR" led. But I sure as hell wouldnt turn down the chance to crop under a Black Dog or Kind 1000watt replacement. Because they ARE good lights... they do what you want them to do. Theyre just too expensive.

kristoffolese · Aug 20, 2017

chakup said:
With the qb price raise they're alot less appealing. Basic math still shows Timber is on par/cheaper.
I find it funny all of the "smart guys" arguing for rapid and not going where they should- a true diy will be cheaper if you shop and source. End of story. Beyond that basic math isn't hard of comparing apples to apples, frames etc.

Btw- im getting 1400 PAR watts direct center, and 750-900 PAR 18" each way, & I dont get below 500 PAR anywhere in my tent... with a $170 qb288 that took 15 mins to assemble. So no... I dont think HLG is overpriced. They raised their price by what? $20? And then, because they sell out almost instantly, EVERY time they re-stock. Why hate? Just accept it... HLG's quantum boards kick ASS in a tent setting.

chakup · Aug 20, 2017

So me saying the

kristoffolese said:
Not going where they SHOULD?! You are absolutely a timber employee - u should change your status to "advertiser" lol

"Experts" as yourself who can diy, should because it's cheaper makes me a Timber employee??? That may be the dumbest comment yet- and you've already spewed Soo much bad info that's damn impressive.

chakup · Aug 20, 2017

kristoffolese said:
Btw- im getting 1400 PAR watts direct center, and 750-900 PAR 18" each way, & I dont get below 500 PAR anywhere in my tent... with a $170 qb288 that took 15 mins to assemble. So no... I dont think HLG is overpriced. They raised their price by what? $20? And then, because they sell out almost instantly, EVERY time they re-stock. Why hate? Just accept it... HLG's quantum boards kick ASS in a tent setting.

And since reading is difficult I said zero bad about qb themselves, actually planning on running them.
Who's the school here buddy??

RainDan · Aug 20, 2017

kristoffolese said:
They pay to run adds... they DONT pay for the opinion of the writers. HighTimes tries to appeal to a BROAD audience... the diy community is not broad. So they didnt even include diy's in their list of leds they reviewed. I dont care for this policy, but the fact remains - Timbers leds WERE included in the leds HT reviewed... and THEY said that Black Dog & Kind were better. Not I. I simply correctly informed you guys, that NO, they dont "suck". Is there REALLY some idiot out there who would turn down a chance to use. $1500 Black Dog LED to grow with, if it were given to you? I would turn away Viparspectra if it was free, I would turn away mars hydro & every other budget "sub-500 PAR" led. But I sure as hell wouldnt turn down the chance to crop under a Black Dog or Kind 1000watt replacement. Because they ARE good lights... they do what you want them to do. Theyre just too expensive.

@kristoffolese,

Much of the information you have been posting about Timber Grow Lights is simply untrue. As one of the owners I feel compelled to correct you on a few of your erroneous statements:

1. Timber LED lights were NOT included in the HT review. We have no affiliation nor do we advertise on HT either.

2. I am the only Timber company spokesperson on this or any other forum - we do not use shills - all of the reviews you have read are from actual customers and growers. We are very proud of our reputation in the community and will continue to nurture that.

3. We are not a small "1 or 2" person company. Not that there is any shame or bad in that either. We are a California S-corporation with many employees and have been in the lighting industry for over 11 years, BBB "A" rating, and many industry affiliations.

4. Timber is not the lowest cost option for COB lighting. This is no secret. We charge a fair price for a good product that serves a given part of the market --- as do other upstanding retailers like Rapid and HLG. Each serves a particular niche of the overall indoor horticulture lighting market and to the best of my knowledge, all three enjoy good reputations as a result of their (Timber included) stellar customer service and top quality components.

Regards,
Dan

nc208 · Aug 20, 2017

kristoffolese said:
They pay to run adds... they DONT pay for the opinion of the writers. HighTimes tries to appeal to a BROAD audience... the diy community is not broad. So they didnt even include diy's in their list of leds they reviewed. I dont care for this policy, but the fact remains - Timbers leds WERE included in the leds HT reviewed... and THEY said that Black Dog & Kind were better. Not I. I simply correctly informed you guys, that NO, they dont "suck". Is there REALLY some idiot out there who would turn down a chance to use. $1500 Black Dog LED to grow with, if it were given to you? I would turn away Viparspectra if it was free, I would turn away mars hydro & every other budget "sub-500 PAR" led. But I sure as hell wouldnt turn down the chance to crop under a Black Dog or Kind 1000watt replacement. Because they ARE good lights... they do what you want them to do. Theyre just

RainDan said:
@kristoffolese,

Much of the information you have been posting about Timber Grow Lights is simply untrue. As one of the owners I feel compelled to correct you on a few of your erroneous statements:

1. Timber LED lights were NOT included in the HT review. We have no affiliation nor do we advertise on HT either.

2. I am the only Timber company spokesperson on this or any other forum - we do not use shills - all of the reviews you have read are from actual customers and growers. We are very proud of our reputation in the community and will continue to nurture that.

3. We are not a small "1 or 2" person company. Not that there is any shame or bad in that either. We are a California S-corporation with many employees and have been in the lighting industry for over 11 years, BBB "A" rating, and many industry affiliations.

4. Timber is not the lowest cost option for COB lighting. This is no secret. We charge a fair price for a good product that serves a given part of the market --- as do other upstanding retailers like Rapid and HGL. Each serves a particular niche of the overall indoor horticulture lighting market and to the best of my knowledge, all three enjoy good reputations as a result of their (Timber included) stellar customer service and top quality components.

Regards,
Dan

Damn, now that's a Mic drop....

Yodaweed · Aug 20, 2017

kristoffolese said:
When you factor in;
1) Not having to replace bulbs, not having to buy replacement after replacement saves a LOT of money long term.
2) Electricity savings - same/more PAR wattage for much less electricity.
3) The lights LAST. We're talking years and years- with little to no degradation of light intensity.
4) You dont need to use AC (at least I dont) with a good LED, because they are so cool running. HID's & Gavitas run hot, usually requiring AC.
Its easy to criticize without offering a better alternative (cough, cough - REPUBLICANS!- cough, cough) but if qb288's are so terrible, show me a better light with a cheaper overall cost.

You'll never recover those initial costs and LED spectrum is garbage, electric costs are .07 per kwh here, LEDs are for hobby growers that grow in tiny tents, also you need to educate yourself a bit more, the only thing that matters when making heat is how many watts used not the type of light.

And why are you bringing politics into a marijauna growing forum are you brain damaged?

Yodaweed · Aug 20, 2017

kristoffolese said:
Also... arent you the one who was loudly saying how WEAK & TERRIBLE quantum boards would turn out to be? Last year, yes? Wasnt it you who talked non-stop smack when Robin from hlg shared the board's #'s? Calling it bs, "...no way 3watt diodes will have the intensity... blah, blah, blah" If not Im sorry... but will look it up anyway lol Itd be weird if TWO guys with the word "yoda" in the name, were mindless opponents if led lights. USE a qb288... THEN come talk to us. Because thats what I did They kick ASS. A 135watt QB288 is kicking a 400watt hid's butt. The footprint IS smaller... but not by nuch, & the area it does cover, is getting over 1000 PAR watts & requires co2 for the plant to even process how much light these babies put out. Talk all the smack you want - I have first hand knowledge. I bought my light after seeing a friend's side-by-side, qb288 vs 400watt MH/HPS grow, in a 2.5X2ft space. The HID pulled just over 0.5 grams per watt... the hlg qb288 pulled a full gram per watt+, except on a run of a lower yielding gsc, which pulled 0.8g/w... but thats almost double what it was yieldingn under hid lighting. LED growing ALSO produces smaller stems & stalks & a higher % of bud weight. In addition to that, there is ZERO doubt, that LED's produce noticeably more frost & trich production. Shoot, even the chinsy-cheap Viparspectra lays down more frost than an HID! Seriously! They dont have enough red or PAR wattage to give any special yield... but the yield they DO give is frostier. Im sorry, it just IS. Weigh an EXACT side by side led vs hid grow - before AND after removing the thick, woody stalks & stems in the center of the buds... youll find then, that the HIDs REEEALLY gets murdered, then. Now Im not a fan of overpriced LED's - Kind, Timber, Blackdog... but Id WAY rather have one of those, than even a DE HID.

if you can only pull .5 gram per watt with a HPS than you need to learn how to grow.

And if you are thinking a viparspectra is a better light than a HPS....i don't even know what to say....you might just want to stop growing now and just buy from the dispensary to save your time and money.

kristoffolese · Aug 20, 2017

RainDan said:
@kristoffolese,

Much of the information you have been posting about Timber Grow Lights is simply untrue. As one of the owners I feel compelled to correct you on a few of your erroneous statements:

1. Timber LED lights were NOT included in the HT review. We have no affiliation nor do we advertise on HT either.

2. I am the only Timber company spokesperson on this or any other forum - we do not use shills - all of the reviews you have read are from actual customers and growers. We are very proud of our reputation in the community and will continue to nurture that.

3. We are not a small "1 or 2" person company. Not that there is any shame or bad in that either. We are a California S-corporation with many employees and have been in the lighting industry for over 11 years, BBB "A" rating, and many industry affiliations.

4. Timber is not the lowest cost option for COB lighting. This is no secret. We charge a fair price for a good product that serves a given part of the market --- as do other upstanding retailers like Rapid and HLG. Each serves a particular niche of the overall indoor horticulture lighting market and to the best of my knowledge, all three enjoy good reputations as a result of their (Timber included) stellar customer service and top quality components.

Regards,
Dan

HT didnt consider Timber lights when releasing their "BEST LED LIGHT OF THE YEAR" award/whatever...? LIAR!!! Call them if you doubt me.

chakup · Aug 20, 2017

kristoffolese said:
HT didnt consider Timber lights when releasing their "BEST LED LIGHT OF THE YEAR" award/whatever...? LIAR!!! Call them if you doubt me.

Can you link or something? Tried searching HAT and couldn't find nada.

Yodaweed · Aug 20, 2017

kristoffolese said:
HT didnt consider Timber lights when releasing their "BEST LED LIGHT OF THE YEAR" award/whatever...? LIAR!!! Call them if you doubt me.

Not sticking up for timber but high times is a popularity contest, don't believe everything you read.

Diskokobaja · Aug 20, 2017

SchweeDubz said:
When you say premade, are you talking about a customizable light? Or something like a fixed light structure? I don't know the proper terminology, but something like the brands I originally posted. Could you maybe explain the difference here? Is it just cost? Or do brands like Platinum LED not use efficient components? Or they are just charging more or?

then go with amare and thats it..

Best LED for 3x3 flowering

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