Aquaponic sip?

Platizzle

Member
Hi, so im researching to eventually build an overly elaborate growroom.

I've done much reading, much experimentation with other crops. I have a couple questions id like some input on.

So, I'll be making a large sip, 4x8. I want to incorporate an aquaponic/ bioponic system with that. Diversity is key, after all. So im trying to figure out a way to incorporate aquatic life. In a fairly permanent fashion.

And then, this may be blasphemous, but I was thinking, some nutrients are hard to come by (p and k) in organic form. But bags of chemical fertilizers with those are cheap. So, I'm thinking why not use the chemical salts to grow dynamic accumulators/ green manure. Once the weeds grow, they will be organic biomass and nutrients to add into the organic system.

Anybody have any thoughts on these?
 

NewGrower2011

Well-Known Member
I could see how the rez for the SIP could be tied into an aquaponic system's loop somehow. Constantly circulating water in/out of the SIP rez and into your main tank. Interesting combination, minor variant on what's known to work - I'd expect a good outcome if you can keep the system healthy, happy & clean.
 

MustangStudFarm

Well-Known Member
Hi, so im researching to eventually build an overly elaborate growroom.

I've done much reading, much experimentation with other crops. I have a couple questions id like some input on.

So, I'll be making a large sip, 4x8. I want to incorporate an aquaponic/ bioponic system with that. Diversity is key, after all. So im trying to figure out a way to incorporate aquatic life. In a fairly permanent fashion.

And then, this may be blasphemous, but I was thinking, some nutrients are hard to come by (p and k) in organic form. But bags of chemical fertilizers with those are cheap. So, I'm thinking why not use the chemical salts to grow dynamic accumulators/ green manure. Once the weeds grow, they will be organic biomass and nutrients to add into the organic system.

Anybody have any thoughts on these?
Don't listen to NewGrower2011, he's a newb that really doesn't know what he is doing...
 

MustangStudFarm

Well-Known Member
. So, I'm thinking why not use the chemical salts to grow dynamic accumulators/ green manure.
I'm not sure what you mean by this? If you are talking about using like Scott's lawn fertilizer to grow grass, which you compost, I don't see a problem with it. I do the same...
 

MustangStudFarm

Well-Known Member
So, you are asking about deep rooting plants for minerals? It took me forever to figure out why the hippies compost deep rooting plants with their grass clippings and tree leaves, it's to lower the amount of available phosphorus and make micronutrients more available. Every soil test that I've done the P was high and Mn, Zn, and sometimes Fe & B was low. The hippy method suggests that you compost comfrey, nettle, or borage type of plants with your compost to raise micronutrients. I use lambsquarter because it has an extra bump in Mn that I need and it's all over in my yard, so I got lucky. I let the weeds grow in my yard this summer and it looked like shit, but I don't care, it serves a purpose.

You are asking about a recirculating water system for a SIP. I imagine you are trying to add oxygen to the water? However, the Gage Green method uses probiotics instead like EM1 and other ferments. I am currently using JADAM Liquid Solution(JLS) because it is an anaerobic ferment and there is no reason to add oxygen to the system. There are others that are experimenting with added oxygen, but it's not a proven method yet. Maybe if enough of you guys get together, you can make it a proven method. Hyroot taught me to use EM1(or homemade LABS) + JLS. You should make JLS out of your "Biodynamic accumulators"!
 

Platizzle

Member
Ok, basically yes I was talking about growing compost material with some chemical fertilizer.

Im not sure about gage green I'll have to look into it. I was mostly trying to put more diversity into the system
 

Northwood

Well-Known Member
I could see how the rez for the SIP could be tied into an aquaponic system's loop somehow. Constantly circulating water in/out of the SIP rez and into your main tank. Interesting combination, minor variant on what's known to work - I'd expect a good outcome if you can keep the system healthy, happy & clean.
Do you know if the ppm of available nutrients required by the plants wouldn't make the water uninhabitable for the fish? Not arguing, just asking because I"m too stoned, old, and lazy to look it up right now. lol
 

Northwood

Well-Known Member
I'd rather suggest getting your soil test done at an accredited soil analysis lab in your state or province. Entering the keywords into Google "accredited <enter province or state name here> soil test extension labs". Your government will provide you with a list of approved soil analysis shops in your area with clickable links. This is why we pay taxes. lol! And since we're growing organically, even CEC and saturation levels might become an important factor you might want to know and baseline too. Mystery testing on Amazon might be brave, but in scientific terms it might be foolish too.
 
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MustangStudFarm

Well-Known Member
Do you know if the ppm of available nutrients required by the plants wouldn't make the water uninhabitable for the fish? Not arguing, just asking because I"m too stoned, old, and lazy to look it up right now. lol
Because you think that you add "nutes" to the water, right?
 

MustangStudFarm

Well-Known Member
I'd rather suggest getting your soil test done at an accredited soil analysis lab in your state or province. Entering the keywords into Google "accredited <enter province or state name here> soil test extension labs". Your government will provide you with a list of approved soil analysis shops in your area with clickable links. This is why we pay taxes. lol! And since we're growing organically, even CEC and saturation levels might become an important factor you might want to know and baseline too. Mystery testing on Amazon might be brave, but in scientific terms it might be foolish too.
Why have you not used this "Free soil testing" that our tax dollars paid for. Wait, what's that, you haven't tested one batch of soil yet? It must be painful to swing your little cock around and be wrong all the time. You are following me around trying to say that I'm spreading misinformation. Let's ask google where the Soil Savvy test really comes from, it comes from a fucking lab in Washington state. Now, let's find that free fucking soil testing facility that you keep talking about. I can't find it because it don't fucking exist. Go look like a fool somewhere else and fuck off!!!
 

Platizzle

Member
Do you know if the ppm of available nutrients required by the plants wouldn't make the water uninhabitable for the fish? Not arguing, just asking because I"m too stoned, old, and lazy to look it up right now. lol
Aquaponic systems typically stock three fish to a borderline toxic level to meet the plants needs. However, this isn't the only source of nutrients the plants will get. So it need not be quite so densely populated.
 

Platizzle

Member
I've realized setup will be easier than I thought. I was so worried about the water/ soil border. You know, keeping the soil from washing away. But, it will lose tilth and sink, and fall through the cracks in the gravel and get washed away. But that's actually not bad,is it? That means the old broken down soil will be coming out of the bed as im adding fresh material on top.

Im sure something will use it in the aquaponic side. A big part of what started this is the micribiota in the water could be demineralizing the bedrock. Then, it would seem beneficial to have something to eat the bacteria/ fungi/ algae- keep everything clean. Some snails/ catfish, maybe crabs. Then im gonna want a water lily. Maybe reeds. Not really necessary, but shouldn't my harden be about beauty and life, not just making drugs? Besides, they will create new micro habitats, provide nectar for beneficial insects, and be more biomass. Im sure there's more that should and will go in the water. Let it have a waterfall into the gravel bed underneath the soil bed. I feel like something should be in there too? That's the biofilter, right? Seems like it would get a lot of shit growing on it after a while. That's what happens in the streams around here. The edges grow slime- bacteria.
 

Northwood

Well-Known Member
Aquaponic systems typically stock three fish to a borderline toxic level to meet the plants needs. However, this isn't the only source of nutrients the plants will get. So it need not be quite so densely populated.
Thanks! I'm guessing the kind of fish kept also makes a difference in how well they can tolerate it? What species of fish are you planning on using?
 

Platizzle

Member
Thanks! I'm guessing the kind of fish kept also makes a difference in how well they can tolerate it? What species of fish are you planning on using?
Yeah, it most definitely would. 2 big departures from typical aquaponics though.
1. They generally are treating thr fish as a product too. So we generally use "edible" fish. I don't care about that. I would assume bottom feeders should be much less sensitive. We see catfish happy in some very questionable waters
2. Aquaponics typically is used with a hydro-type setup. Being the sole nutrient source for the plants. I don't care about that either. I plan to run a full-on no-till bed. This is more bonus material.

They will be more like pond fish, than aquaponic fish. But there contribution will exist, even if small.

Like I said before- it's not really necessary. 4x8 isn't necessary either when I only plan to grow ~5 pounds a year. But that gives me plenty of room for error, plenty of room for biodiversity, and patience. It gives me room to waste, to try to create a more complete ecosystem. And to hopefully have something more appealing to look at. Imagine only needing 1/4 of your grow space for your target crop. That's a lot of extra room for companion plants. And free space. No need to smash everything together
 

Platizzle

Member
Now as far as the bed itself- like I said, 4x8 is well oversized for the task at hand. But the lighting bill will still be less than a weeks worth of weed, so? Anyway, I'm trying to build a garden of eden, add much as produce weed. Im planning on growing autos, estimating an average of 90 days, 180 grams each(superautos? Not them little lowriders) I'll put 1 in per month, and have only 3 plants at a given time. Maybe I should tighten it up and do a fourth, just for good measure.

I was planning on keeping red wigglers in there, but after listening to coots, it appears that I would be better to do the vermicompost on the side. I'll still have plenty of mulch and such in the bed. I may keep some in the bed as well. I actually am leaning towards earthworms, just for tilling. I hear they won't survive the temperature(doesn't make sense, 75 degrees? The earth is much warmer than that, and they seem to be living just fine everywhere I dig a shovel, or move a rock). I'm hoping to also host a permanent predatory population. That means I'll need to screen all the vents and such.

As for companion planting, I'll have lots of room. That means hopefully the ground won't get shaded out completely. Maybe it will.

Either way, we'll have white clover(micro? ) and dwarf nasturtiums as a ground cover. 2 marigolds, 1 or 2 basil, sage, bunching onions scattered lightly throughout. Im open to suggestions. I want a mint plant, but that would need isolated. Maybe let it grow hydroponically in the gravel bed?
 

Platizzle

Member
I'll be starting soon on my worm castings, so they can be ready for spring- they'll be used elsewhere until needed here.

Start with a yard of leaf mold. Add a bag of ground barley malt and my amendments. He says kelp meal, I'm probably not buying that. It's not cheap here. I'll have to work that out still. Probably just some all purpose organic mix. Whatever, it's worm food.

Im thinking rice hulls would be good as an aeration in the grow bed. Or a large portion of it.i could add more as I mulch, to replace what is breaking down/ being lost at the bottom
 

MustangStudFarm

Well-Known Member
Yeah, it most definitely would. 2 big departures from typical aquaponics though.
1. They generally are treating thr fish as a product too. So we generally use "edible" fish. I don't care about that. I would assume bottom feeders should be much less sensitive. We see catfish happy in some very questionable waters
2. Aquaponics typically is used with a hydro-type setup. Being the sole nutrient source for the plants. I don't care about that either. I plan to run a full-on no-till bed. This is more bonus material.

They will be more like pond fish, than aquaponic fish. But there contribution will exist, even if small.

Like I said before- it's not really necessary. 4x8 isn't necessary either when I only plan to grow ~5 pounds a year. But that gives me plenty of room for error, plenty of room for biodiversity, and patience. It gives me room to waste, to try to create a more complete ecosystem. And to hopefully have something more appealing to look at. Imagine only needing 1/4 of your grow space for your target crop. That's a lot of extra room for companion plants. And free space. No need to smash everything together
Look into goldfish because they are the most polluting fish(I had a friend that was really into fish). He said that you don't really want to mix goldfish with other fish for that reason, they pollute. However, that pollution is exactly what the plants want. My questions is if you can still use EM1 in the rez water with fish and I'm leaning towards "yes".

The big sub irrigated planter that you are talking about sounds a lot like a Soma SIP. It might be worth looking into.

Worm bins are more of my passion. If you have access to greensand, it's some of the best stuff that I found. I use Azomite, Greensand, and Basalt in the worm bin along with barley. If I was to only choose 1 rock dust, it would be greensand because of the Mn. Leaf mould will be excellent in there too. The best worm castings that I made were from a trailer of produce that I sourced from a grocery store and it was free. I had near perfect germination rates with the EWC and it was also strong enough to flower plants in 100gal pots for most of the grow. I had to start supplemental feeding on the last month of flower but it lasted longer than expected. I just mixed peat moss, rock dust, barley, and a trailer of produce for my worm bin and I wouldn't change a thing next round. I had about 2x trailer loads.
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Worm bins
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