Apache AT600 led vs 1000w HPS Blue Dream Grow

bilbo182

bilbo182

Active Member
And Vipar have some spot on lights, contemplating a couple of the new 5w 300w clusters!

No idea what the general opinion is of them on here but at $286/£276 for 600w and a one year warranty I can't find anything in the UK to get near them.

And before it starts, I know they are built in China to the spec of the guys in the UK and sold/dispatched in the US/UK through ebay :)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/121336537253 US ebay link

http://www.viparled.co.uk/ Website
 
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chazbolin

chazbolin

Well-Known Member
Hiya GG! Just got back from Light Fair in Las Vegas. Thought ya'll might get a kick out of this. I shit you not that 95% of all the exhibitors were showing LED lights. I could not find a single flouro, CMH, or HID lamp on the floor for area lighting applications. As I considered this it occurs to me that HID's numbers are going to be dropping as they are not going to be in as much demand which will most certainly have an impact on what it costs to manufacture HID products and what it ends up costing the end user. The future of LED for area lighting has been established.

I said area lighting because there were two company's that exhibited HID for grow. As you will see in these images one continues to promote HPS as a three 1000 watt lamps over a 4 x 8 tray and the other had a housing with a couple of metal halides and two LED light bars bolted to the sides of their housing. They also had a model that could be used for HID hoods. Lastly there was a group out of China that was taking two induction drivers and installing them in a V8 housing configuration that could be dimmed. I was told theirs was designed for indoor gardening applications where the user would want to put two lamps in the same housing.

For my purposes I got to meet with IES board members and discuss the need to form a committee to come up with standards in how we measure plant lighting. After lengthy discussions they agreed that there is definitely a need and a committee will be forming to pursue establishing these standards. Perhaps you and AT would like to participate? I know IG is going to participate. This is going to be fun and as I believe you would agree, l o n g overdue. I think that if a few weed growers could potentially influence an international plant lighting standard that would be quite cool indeed.

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Cococola36

Cococola36

Well-Known Member
bilbo182 said:
And Vipar have some spot on lights, contemplating a couple of the new 5w 300w clusters!

No idea what the general opinion is of them on here but at $286/£276 for 600w and a one year warranty I can't find anything in the UK to get near them.

And before it starts, I know they are built in China to the spec of the guys in the UK and sold/dispatched in the US/UK through ebay :)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/121336537253 US ebay link

http://www.viparled.co.uk/ Website
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I have to admit , i had them same panels for a short time lol...so fast i didn't even post about them. They vegged decent but even under 20/4 lighting schedule my plants were getting stretchy....maybe they are good for flowering specifically tho never used them for that. I had sold them right back on ebay where i got them. The one thing i did like was they can be linked together...
 
nevergoodenuf

nevergoodenuf

Well-Known Member
Wow, I would think that the new double ended HPS bulbs and hoods would be shown. I have been told the they are pulling some great numbers off of these. Of coarse now you have more heat to deal with.
 
J

Jbone77

Well-Known Member
chazbolin said:
Hiya GG! Just got back from Light Fair in Las Vegas. Thought ya'll might get a kick out of this. I shit you not that 95% of all the exhibitors were showing LED lights. I could not find a single flouro, CMH, or HID lamp on the floor for area lighting applications. As I considered this it occurs to me that HID's numbers are going to be dropping as they are not going to be in as much demand which will most certainly have an impact on what it costs to manufacture HID products and what it ends up costing the end user. The future of LED for area lighting has been established.

I said area lighting because there were two company's that exhibited HID for grow. As you will see in these images one continues to promote HPS as a three 1000 watt lamps over a 4 x 8 tray and the other had a housing with a couple of metal halides and two LED light bars bolted to the sides of their housing. They also had a model that could be used for HID hoods. Lastly there was a group out of China that was taking two induction drivers and installing them in a V8 housing configuration that could be dimmed. I was told theirs was designed for indoor gardening applications where the user would want to put two lamps in the same housing.

For my purposes I got to meet with IES board members and discuss the need to form a committee to come up with standards in how we measure plant lighting. After lengthy discussions they agreed that there is definitely a need and a committee will be forming to pursue establishing these standards. Perhaps you and AT would like to participate? I know IG is going to participate. This is going to be fun and as I believe you would agree, l o n g overdue. I think that if a few weed growers could potentially influence an international plant lighting standard that would be quite cool indeed.

View attachment 3171504 View attachment 3171507 View attachment 3171508 View attachment 3171510 View attachment 3171519
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did you snap some pics of Apaches booth or A51?
 
Greengenes707

Greengenes707

Well-Known Member
chazbolin said:
Hiya GG! Just got back from Light Fair in Las Vegas. Thought ya'll might get a kick out of this. I shit you not that 95% of all the exhibitors were showing LED lights. I could not find a single flouro, CMH, or HID lamp on the floor for area lighting applications. As I considered this it occurs to me that HID's numbers are going to be dropping as they are not going to be in as much demand which will most certainly have an impact on what it costs to manufacture HID products and what it ends up costing the end user. The future of LED for area lighting has been established.

I said area lighting because there were two company's that exhibited HID for grow. As you will see in these images one continues to promote HPS as a three 1000 watt lamps over a 4 x 8 tray and the other had a housing with a couple of metal halides and two LED light bars bolted to the sides of their housing. They also had a model that could be used for HID hoods. Lastly there was a group out of China that was taking two induction drivers and installing them in a V8 housing configuration that could be dimmed. I was told theirs was designed for indoor gardening applications where the user would want to put two lamps in the same housing.

For my purposes I got to meet with IES board members and discuss the need to form a committee to come up with standards in how we measure plant lighting. After lengthy discussions they agreed that there is definitely a need and a committee will be forming to pursue establishing these standards. Perhaps you and AT would like to participate? I know IG is going to participate. This is going to be fun and as I believe you would agree, l o n g overdue. I think that if a few weed growers could potentially influence an international plant lighting standard that would be quite cool indeed.
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Very interesting and over due stuff chaz.

Don't people go taking this the wrong way but...Many of us have gone into detail about certain things...then later they show up nearly word for word/pic for pic by some company...I think RIU has a lot bigger influence on the community as a whole than we think. And for good reason...there isn't a site or group of people ever as knowledgeable and educated as the people who have congregated here. I am very proud to hang out "virtually" with everyone.

The "fit all supplemental pontoons" were my idea 9 months ago...even posted the design on here...then took it down a few days later just because I didn't want anyone taking it...used to even put "™®" after my post for fun...but seriously should have filled it. I have one blue and one uvb design. Started with the uvb...but in my expeience good blue spectrum representation will increase the resin and trichomes as much as uvb...but without the negatives(human and plant).
Hps is missing blue and to do it with HID tech, losses it's output dominance...hence the addition of even more efficient than hps, leds to do the blue work...red is no really necessary imo because even though hps is mostly yellow...it plays along and effects as if red(very generally speaking).

I would be more than honored if I could have any input/take part in that committee...and I know AT would have some great input from robert. Keep me in the loop.

Cococola36 said:
I have to admit , i had them same panels for a short time lol...so fast i didn't even post about them. They vegged decent but even under 20/4 lighting schedule my plants were getting stretchy....maybe they are good for flowering specifically tho never used them for that. I had sold them right back on ebay where i got them. The one thing i did like was they can be linked together...
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You with a different light at one point...no, never. haha.

nevergoodenuf said:
Wow, I would think that the new double ended HPS bulbs and hoods would be shown. I have been told the they are pulling some great numbers off of these. Of coarse now you have more heat to deal with.
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The double ended phillips bulbs(gavita's) are the shit when it comes to HID(hps, mh, cmh). They put out more light even watt afor watt but can safely go to 1150w with no degradation effects. Their heat is the biggest issue, but if you are ready for it, they will do damage. Plus no they make AC hoods for them so it very possible to run them in smaller situations...but they sure were not designed for small...they are meant for the fullest of sized gardens. But they are killer for sure.

Jbone77 said:
did you snap some pics of Apaches booth or A51?
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They weren't there so I would imagine no.
I have never seen a51 at any show/event
AT only goes to a few a year and that wasn't one of them. Not sure why...just is what it is.
 
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Mt Doo

Mt Doo

Active Member
Greengenes707 said:
My question for you is how much is from reading and how much is from experience?
My way is that you should basically be feeding at their max level already. If one were to increase ppm of my garden it would be burn them and be negative. If you are feeding low but you have never found how much/high ppm they will take without burning, then I agree with your statement...but that is just based on plant needs more than is available and is deficient in a sense.

That is all based on a garden that needs to be feed. With a good soil mix there should be plenty in there at high concentrations to get a top end yield.

SOG doesn't change the yield per harvest...it increases the amount of harvest per year. so in stead of 4units 4 times a year...it's 4units 6 times a year.

Vert is interesting...I think that the increased canopy size is the bigger player in that situation.
The best are the undercurrent guys that don't get crazy g/w...but get mega crazy g/sqft...using vert and horizontals...basically sun power top to bottom of the plants.


Supra and spaz pretty much covered it...
You can get the at600 for $1950...and I pay $0.36/KwH....comes out to about $90/60days...so 16 cycles on just lighting
Then I save 80% on cooing cost. with a 735w AC unit being the go to when running multiple 1000w in my situation(7ft ceilings) that is much more than my lighting savings.
As where about 100w with my inline cools the whole room with 1800w of LED in it. Honestly the cooling is the biggest savings imo. But you need to be on a larger scale to truly benefit form it.
And that is basically the story of AT...the bigger the garden the better fit they are, and the more the gardener will save.


To me with the at600's capabilities, it's now practical to say that part(1/3) of the harvest can pay off the light in 3 months...you produce 1.5units...still profit form 1 and the .5 pays the difference from hps to led. And I know in certain area's someones .5 is worth 2X mine, so it could be less.




What a thought...probably not price practical, but sure would be cool.
At that point I would go all 50lenes and turn the drivers down to pull 600 each light...1200w total...then put it against any hps/cmh/what ever on the market or in development.



View attachment 3170842



If I was a buyer in EU...I would diy
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Honestly it's from "research" I've done I guess you can say. The any grows I've seen where people who have ran trees go sog have reported yield increase. Once again not me personally just from reading. Also the lower ec was first brought to my attention by heath robinson but after looking I have noticed that people claim better buds and growth after lowering ec. Now it's not always like that but from what I've read it's more likely than not.

A Bitch A Blunt And A Beer, Lifes Great
 
gk skunky

gk skunky

Well-Known Member
Mt Doo said:
I personally think yield is based on nute strength. I feel a lower ec or ppm will result in better quality higher ec ppm will result in more weight. I have no back up to my claim just my opinion from looking at grows on the forum and noticing that the great looking buds are usually lower in feeding strength, but sog does increase yield and so does vert but no matter the style the people who feed lower seem to get better quality.

A Bitch A Blunt And A Beer, Lifes Great
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Let me ask you a question. What do you think equates to the mass of a plant? Pretty amusing how many people can't answer that correctly.
 
Myles117

Myles117

Well-Known Member
gk skunky said:
Let me ask you a question. What do you think equates to the mass of a plant? Pretty amusing how many people can't answer that correctly.
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if you feed at highest levels just below burning em, most of the nutrients end up down the drain or left in the soil. surely you dont think that just because the plants dont respond negatively that they must be using all/nearly all the nutrients available to assemble their plant mass.

i used to push my numbers just under 2000ppm years ago because more had to be better right? then i went to 1500 with same results. the last 2 years i've gone down to 800ppm with same yields and big savings. sure my skills have grown as the ppms have dropped but ill never go back to pushing the limits that the plants can take.
 
gk skunky

gk skunky

Well-Known Member
Myles117 said:
if you feed at highest levels just below burning em, most of the nutrients end up down the drain or left in the soil. surely you dont think that just because the plants dont respond negatively that they must be using all/nearly all the nutrients available to assemble their plant mass.

i used to push my numbers just under 2000ppm years ago because more had to be better right? then i went to 1500 with same results. the last 2 years i've gone down to 800ppm with same yields and big savings. sure my skills have grown as the ppms have dropped but ill never go back to pushing the limits that the plants can take.
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LOL just as I suspected. Carbon. Not nutes. The amount of nutes actually in the plant is no where even close to the amount of carbon and water. Water keeps it turgid but carbon is what makes a plant grow. Nutitents just help facilitate biosynthesis but carbon compounds are what create any plants mass.
 
Greengenes707

Greengenes707

Well-Known Member
Carbon fixation...the basis of photosynthesis...the basics of how plants feed themselves....
Nutrients are needed for plant health and functions but not super high levels are not need to get the plant to it's genetic potential.
When I was feeding high and using a "need to feed" medium about 1400 was top end for me. But like I have said many times, I like to mix up a perfect soil that will holds it's own with simple h2o and a little sugar all the way through.

EDIT:
And skunk couldn't wait for me to type so he answered his own question haha. No more raising hands I guess.
 
Myles117

Myles117

Well-Known Member
gk skunky said:
LOL just as I suspected. Carbon. Not nutes. The amount of nutes actually in the plant is no where even close to the amount of carbon and water. Water keeps it turgid but carbon is what makes a plant grow. Nutitents just help facilitate biosynthesis but carbon compounds are what create any plants mass.
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i dont wanna clog this thread up but saying carbon is "what makes a plant grow" is really really stupid lol.

what makes it grow? really dude.... im done here lol

sorry GG :)
 
gk skunky

gk skunky

Well-Known Member
Myles117 said:
i dont wanna clog this thread up but saying carbon is "what makes a plant grow" is really really stupid lol.

what makes it grow? really dude.... im done here lol

sorry GG :)
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LOL You're talking to a licensed botanist that also ran a state university green house. That, along with multiple biology and chemistry degrees. Sorry sir, but you need to educate yourself.
 
Greengenes707

Greengenes707

Well-Known Member
Myles117 said:
i dont wanna clog this thread up but saying carbon is "what makes a plant grow" is really really stupid lol.

what makes it grow? really dude.... im done here lol

sorry GG :)
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He didn't say that is what makes them grow...he said that is what makes up the flowers we smoke...the mass of the plant...yield
His point is that nuts don't go up the stem and out to the leaves and what not as new growth. It's not a nitrogen molecule that is the tip of that new growth...it's fixated carbon that was taken from nuts of water...

gk skunky said:
LOL You're talking to a licensed botanist that also ran a state university green house. That, along with multiple biology and chemistry degrees. Sorry sir, but you need to educate yourself.
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Always had a hunch you were a little above the average joe
 
gk skunky

gk skunky

Well-Known Member
Greengenes707 said:
He didn't say that is what makes them grow...he said that is what makes up the flowers we smoke...the mass of the plant...yield
His point is that nuts don't go up the stem and out to the leaves and what not as new growth. It's not a nitrogen molecule that is the tip of that new growth...it's fixated carbon that was taken from nuts of water...


Always had a hunch you were a little above the average joe
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Eh just loved marijuana and learning to grow as a teen it turned me on to biology then I just got sucked in... Damn premed bio course the advisor tried to talk me out of, was doing software engineering and informatics at the time. That was the "downward spiral". Lmao

But thanks though. Definitely seems to be a couple good "heads" around here. And holy shit this sweet tooth has me wanting to quote everything. LOL
 
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