Anybody Want To Double Their Yield?- Desertrat's Top and Prune?

Cissy

Cissy

Active Member
DaveCoulier said:
There is already a lollipopping thread where UB and BT have made their thoughts known. BrickTop has a great ditty in there that pretty much body slams lollipopping proponents. I think he even does a leg drop on them while they're down too...
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Great. But do you have a link or a hint so I can look it up? Otherwise, the two of them have thousands of posts and I don't have time to go on a wild goose chase.

thank you
 
riddleme

riddleme

Well-Known Member
Cissy

Cissy

Active Member
Thank you.. I spent the last several hours reading that thread and another (this one:https://www.rollitup.org/advanced-marijuana-cultivation/244201-lollipopping-3.html) and I am convinced to abandon this whole lollipopin idea.

One question remains: when doing a 2nd harvest, do you just chop the top half of the plant off and leave nothing but the lower parts to finish or do you leave as many of the top fan leaves on as possible? It would make sense to remove them on one hand, but on the other(based on UB's logic) it might actually be better to leave them on. So not sure which way to go. ?

Also, about how long do you guys have to leave the bottom halves to go before they "mature"? For instance, if I harvest the tops of my favorite strain (White Berry) at 8 weeks, how much longer should I expect to wait on the bottom halves of the plants beyond that time?

ty
 
riddleme

riddleme

Well-Known Member
Cissy said:
Thank you.. I spent the last several hours reading that thread and another (this one:https://www.rollitup.org/advanced-marijuana-cultivation/244201-lollipopping-3.html) and I am convinced to abandon this whole lollipopin idea.

One question remains: when doing a 2nd harvest, do you just chop the top half of the plant off and leave nothing but the lower parts to finish or do you leave as many of the top fan leaves on as possible? It would make sense to remove them on one hand, but on the other(based on UB's logic) it might actually be better to leave them on. So not sure which way to go. ?

Also, about how long do you guys have to leave the bottom halves to go before they "mature"? For instance, if I harvest the tops of my favorite strain (White Berry) at 8 weeks, how much longer should I expect to wait on the bottom halves of the plants beyond that time?

ty
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I usually run the bottom for another 3 weeks
 
Uncle Ben

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
Cissy said:
One question remains: when doing a 2nd harvest, do you just chop the top half of the plant off and leave nothing but the lower parts to finish or do you leave as many of the top fan leaves on as possible?
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Over 10 years ago I came up with the double harvest ditty and was flamed at boards. Main reason is folks think it's normal to lose all fan leaves close to harvest, I'd point out the problem was their poor culture and the fact they are making excuses for using bloom when they shouldn't. As previously noted in other threads here..... https://www.rollitup.org/advanced-marijuana-cultivation/244201-lollipopping-3.html .....find the point where the bulked up cola transitions to airy buds on the main stems, cut there and cure. Take the bottom of the plant and put it back under the lights to bulk up. Back off on the feeding and especially the water. You need to have retained good leaf mass to be successful. If not, best just shit can the plant and not worry about it.

Good luck,
UB
 
Dr. Greenhorn

Dr. Greenhorn

Well-Known Member
Uncle Ben said:
Over 10 years ago I came up with the double harvest ditty and was flamed at boards.
Good luck,
UB
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you came up with the double harvest ditty? you sure about that?? I seen it well over 10 years ago, that's for sure...... you gonna take credit for coming up with topping also??
 
riddleme

riddleme

Well-Known Member
UB does not need me to defend him, and there are a lot of folks that disagree with his common sense botanical approach to growing, but he has history and it deserves respect from those looking to learn how to properly grow MJ. He did in fact originate "his" topping method and was one of the persons that helped to write the original faq at the old overgrow site (I have a copy of the faq) he also appears as a guest in Jorges bible, he has been posting in growing forums for over 14 years (though he said 10)

it is very ok not to like him, or his approach, it is however not ok to disrespect his contribution to the growing community

and once again desert I apologize for stepping on your thread
 
NLXSK1

NLXSK1

Well-Known Member
it is very ok not to like him, or his approach, it is however not ok to disrespect his contribution to the growing community
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Yeah, well I have seen him show disrespect to other growers too. Specifically growers that try new methods. If he did actually develop the topping technique? (Do you seriously believe this technique is only less than 20 years old? Started in 1990 sometime?) then he should be more understanding and supportive of other growers that try new things.
 
Gr33nCrack

Gr33nCrack

Active Member
I also said fuck lolli popping this year. It seems like you waste so much growth cutting the bottom branches, i don't see how you get a better yield. Personally i Topped, Super Cropped and LSTed my plant so it gets 100% light, I only cut the very bottom branches and saved the other 4, guarantee this yields more than just topping and lolli popping View attachment 1038701
 
Dr. Greenhorn

Dr. Greenhorn

Well-Known Member
Dr. Greenhorn said:
you came up with the double harvest ditty? you sure about that?? I seen it well over 10 years ago, that's for sure...... you gonna take credit for coming up with topping also??
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riddleme said:
UB does not need me to defend him, and there are a lot of folks that disagree with his common sense botanical approach to growing, but he has history and it deserves respect from those looking to learn how to properly grow MJ. He did in fact originate "his" topping method and was one of the persons that helped to write the original faq at the old overgrow site (I have a copy of the faq) he also appears as a guest in Jorges bible, he has been posting in growing forums for over 14 years (though he said 10)

it is very ok not to like him, or his approach, it is however not ok to disrespect his contribution to the growing community

and once again desert I apologize for stepping on your thread
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are you talking to me? if so, point out the disrespect. :neutral:...... 10 or 14 years, 20 yrs if you want it to be, I have never gotten my technique of topping off the internet, surely also not from a guy named uncle Ben.
 
desertrat

desertrat

Well-Known Member
Took me awhile to get back, but here's my response
Brick Top said:
The point is not what a light puts out in lumens or distance from plants/leaves/buds but instead that of a plant's ability to absorb and process the light it has access to, to create energy. If leaves are removed the ability to absorb and process light to create energy is reduced and nothing will ever change that fact.
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both amount of light delivered and the plant's ability to absorb light are important. To take it to the extreme, you are going to grow Jack shit with 100 lumens total no matter what you do with the fans leaves.

It is like having a home that is 100% solar and in an effort to increase the amount of energy the home's solar system can create someone removes their largest most efficient solar panels.
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your use of solar panels as an analogy highlights what you're not understanding about the physics of indoor grows. It doesN't matter where on the roof the panels were because they were all effectively the same distance from the sun. A better analogy is that you are taking apart the solar panels on earth and moving 90% of them to the planet mercury - you are going to have a lot more light absorbed with fewer solar panels.

Addition cannot be performed by subtraction. Redirection of energy will occur in plants when topping and or trimming is performed but what is then being redirected is redirected from a lesser total overall amount of energy. There cannot be an overall net gain of energy creation as a result of reducing a plant's ability to absorb light rays and create and store energy.
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formally speaking there is no energy creation at all. But as far as you mean the energy absorbed by the plant, then yes, there can be an increase in the energy absorbed by reducing plant mass - if you are by your actions providing more energy to the plant then the lower plant mass will be outweighed by the greater amount of energy made available for absorption.

A plant has a limited ability to absorb and process light regardless of the source of light or distance from the light. Call the total amount of energy a healthy complete/not trimmed plant can absorb and create for growth 'X.' When healthy leaves are removed that reduces the total amount of light able to be collected, processed and available for growth to say 'P.' So now rather than 'X' energy you have 'P' energy. From 'P' a certain amount will be directed to replace the lost healthy foliage leaving what might be called 'K' amount of energy for the remaining portion of a plant to rely on.

By removing healthy leaves you go from the total amount of energy 'X' to the total amount of energy reduced to 'P' and part of that goes to regain what was removed leaving only 'K' amount of energy for the rest of the plant.

Where is the true gain of energy supposed to be found in an overall amount that has to have been reduced through loss of collection and processing and storage?
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I really want to thank you for framing the question so well. One small change that's important - instead of taking the whole plant as one system, look at it as multiple collectors of energy at different distances from the light. The total energy absorbed by the plant is the sum of some parts that are getting the maximum amount of light that they can absorb and many other parts of the plant that are receiving much less than the max amount of light. The whole point of this technique is to increase the percentage of the plant that is getting max light delivered to it. The point of the experiment is to see if there is a net gain in plant mass at harvest - and so far the results say yes. There's a lot more testing to be done, especially trying this on clones, but the prelim results have been consistently positive. And unless you want to join the club of one who keeps questioning my ability to run an experiment, then you need to be able to explain my results away with some alternate logic, something no one has done.
 
desertrat

desertrat

Well-Known Member
Uncle Ben said:
Here's another thread that belongs in the Cannabis Hall of Fame of Quackery

...and another:

They're a dime a dozen.

UB
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See, the insults just keep coming but you continue to fail to address why I'm getting the results I am getting. Oh, that's right, I am a lying, incompetent, attention seeking nube. Or not.

Uncle Ben said:
I just get rubbed the wrong way when someone fishes for noobie interest in a forum by starting a thread with a dreamie title of "anybody want to double their yields?" as if they've found some new fangled method. Trust me, whatever you do, it's been done before in some form or fashion.
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thanks for the clarity on your point of view - that there is nothing new to learn about cannabis cultivation - Anyone who believes as I do that more will be learned as the years go by please stay tuned.

I presented my arguments, pointing out the fallacy that topping above the 4th node and you'll still have a "main branch". That's just not true, only noobs will fall for such crap. What's with the stair step drill, botanically? If removal of some fans is super duper, then it seems to me that removal of all is better. Every time someone starts another one of these boring "remove fan leaves" threads I tell 'em now to remove all of them.
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once again, the main branch would be that thing that's popping out of the ground and continues to the node you topped. Above that there's no main branch. The stair step pattern opens up the plant to expose the tips of the lower branches. And, I hope for the last time, there is such a thing as too much of a good thing. Your "cut all the fan leaves if cutting a few is good" is really sophomoric. Do you cut off all of your hair because getting a hair trim is a good thing?

Ub, I have come to the unfortunate conclusion that your mind is so closed you will never see the benefit of a technique that runs counter to your preconceived notions. That's a shame because you otherwise seem to be pretty talented. I fear you will find as weed becomes more legal and growing becomes less clandestine that there will be an explosion of new knowledge about marijuana cultivation, and some of that new knowledge is going to contradict things you are absolutely convinced of and you will be left behind.
 
crusty420

crusty420

Active Member
Well I tried your method Just before the switch to 12/12 with one plant and left one alone. The results are so obvious....IMG_0020.jpgThe one on the right is the one i pulled about 8 leaves offIMG_0016.jpg
 

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DaveCoulier

DaveCoulier

Well-Known Member
Your results are not as obvious as you may think..

You also have the reflector mostly positioned over the plant on the right..
 
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