Any tips on getting a patient card?

mayhem01

Member
I have my class A in MA. Every form I see only asks, If I have been convivted of drug offense or am I under the influence currently or do I have a drug addiction etc. Which you should not be on anything when signing any legal doc. (clear minded when signing?) I think you will be okay to get the class A. I THINK the problem would arise if you ever need to defend yourself with fatal force, After a shooting I heard they run a drug screening to make sure it was a legal shot...But in the end, I would rather be in jail than my family harmed.
 

Edgar9

Well-Known Member
I have my class A in MA. Every form I see only asks, If I have been convivted of drug offense or am I under the influence currently or do I have a drug addiction etc. Which you should not be on anything when signing any legal doc. (clear minded when signing?) I think you will be okay to get the class A. I THINK the problem would arise if you ever need to defend yourself with fatal force, After a shooting I heard they run a drug screening to make sure it was a legal shot...But in the end, I would rather be in jail than my family harmed.
There's a good thread in the CA patients section about this topic. The general concensus is that if you are a patient you can't have a firearm whether you are growing or not. In fact there are a couple of posts stating that there would even be MMS (mandatory minimum sentences). Keep in mind marijuana is still illegal on the federal level. That's where the problem really lies. The gun forms are federal forms and the feds aren't on board with the MMJ program. Check out the thread.
 

Snafu1236

Well-Known Member
You can have a card and have an LTC.

If you do not believe me, simply consult a lawyers office, or talk to your own.

And if you get denied for it, you can sue them and most likely win.

-Snafu

P.S. Please do not flame this post. Just call your lawyer and he/she will let you know your rights.
 

LBH

Well-Known Member
You can have a card and have an LTC.

If you do not believe me, simply consult a lawyers office, or talk to your own.

And if you get denied for it, you can sue them and most likely win.

-Snafu

P.S. Please do not flame this post. Just call your lawyer and he/she will let you know your rights.
I think most people are concerned with what happens if they come through the door. LTC or not, having a firearm present with a grow is a bad scene legally (here in RI anyway)
 

Snafu1236

Well-Known Member
I think most people are concerned with what happens if they come through the door. LTC or not, having a firearm present with a grow is a bad scene legally (here in RI anyway)
You are correct here. Not saying it is a good idea to have both, but legally my lawyer has stated that I am protected if I so decide to get my LTC. Protected, as in the sense that I would not actively state I am a card holder and would my background check will not include my medical privacy.

Snafu
 

Edgar9

Well-Known Member
You are correct here. Not saying it is a good idea to have both, but legally my lawyer has stated that I am protected if I so decide to get my LTC. Protected, as in the sense that I would not actively state I am a card holder and would my background check will not include my medical privacy.

Snafu

I glad to hear this but I wonder if your lawyer is correct. Sometimes lawyers are wrong in what they say. Especially when it comes to new laws or grey areas.

I say this because in the eyes of the feds cannabis is an illegal substance and If I remember correctly the LTC form asks if you use any illegal substances.

Like I said I hope your lawyer is correct, but your lawyer is definitely in the minority by saying it's okay to use cannabis or grow cannabis and have a LTC. I've been doing some research on the subject and everything points to it not being okay. The ATF has even made a statement that it's not okay.

I'd like a second opinion on the subject.
 

Snafu1236

Well-Known Member
....and If I remember correctly the LTC form asks if you use any illegal substances.
Since when do people subscribe so much to Big Brother? It is almost like this thread is saying: "Write down you are a MMJ patient on your LTC application so you can get denied".

I've never seen such a willingness to literally state something on a form that would negate you filling out the form in the first place.

OF COURSE you wouldn't put down you use any illegal substances. I am a CITIZEN OF A LEGAL MMJ STATE, I am not a citizen of the U.S. Federal Government. I do not live in the Federal Government. I live in Massachusetts where MMJ is legal, have a doctor's recommendation, therefore I do not use illegal substances.

I certainly wouldn't put down on my application: "Yes I use marijuana. Though it is legal in my state, it is illegal on teh federal level, so therefore YES, I do use illegal substances."


Do you guys not see what I am laying down here?

Please do not insult myself or my own lawyer, as he is not in the minority. He is in the majority of common sense working in a pseudo-grey area of the law.

Just have to use some common sense, people.


-Snafu
 

mayhem01

Member
Edgar9, I understand what your saying...My LTC was not issued from the federal govt. My LTC was issued by MA. Does this change anything? I wouldn't think I could get my FFL because thats fed. Where did you get your info.? Do you have a friend? or was it another reason for talking to a lawyer?
 

Snafu1236

Well-Known Member
Edgar9, I understand what your saying...My LTC was not issued from the federal govt. My LTC was issued by MA. Does this change anything? I wouldn't think I could get my FFL because thats fed. Where did you get your info.? Do you have a friend? or was it another reason for talking to a lawyer?
I give up. Do cancer patients get denied their 2nd amendment right because of the medications thy are given? NO. Do they lose their right to carry after they get prescribed into chemotherapy? NO. It is their own privacy, between them and their doctors, as to what medications they take for their ailment. And yes, they also have guns, legally!



WAKE UP people, stop being DRONES and begin THINKING FOR YOURSELF AND UNDERSTANDING THE LAWS.

-Snafu
 

Edgar9

Well-Known Member
Edgar9, I understand what your saying...My LTC was not issued from the federal govt. My LTC was issued by MA. Does this change anything? I wouldn't think I could get my FFL because thats fed. Where did you get your info.? Do you have a friend? or was it another reason for talking to a lawyer?

Memo from ATF:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/66834813/ATF-Letter-Regarding-Guns-and-Drugs



Medical marijuana patients face 5-to-10 years in prison for owning a gun, says ATF

By William BreathesThu., Sep. 29 2011 at 11:09 AM

The Federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives sent out a memo last week clarifying their stance that a sportsman with a shotgun and a medical marijuana card is no different than a cocaine dealer with a silenced TEC-9.The letter, sent to federal firearm licensees and gun shops in medical marijuana states on September 21, makes it clear that federal law prohibits someone who is an "unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance" to purchase or own a gun. And since state medical marijuana laws mean nothing to the federal government, any state-legal medical marijuana patient who owns a firearm is breaking federal law.
It is also illegal to sell a firearm to someone who is a "user" of illicit drugs, and things like firearm background checks and concealed handgun permits all have a check box on their forms asking if you use drugs. If a medical marijuana patient checks yes, then they aren't able to purchase or carry a gun. If they answer no, then they are lying in the eyes of the feds and could face prosecution.
Never mind that whole Second Amendment thing: Violating this law carries mandatory minimum sentences of five-to-ten years depending on the circumstances and mood of the judge and prosecuting attorneys
The idea behind the laws was originally to keep violent drug crimes down via harsh penalties. Whether or not that works is up for debate, but it's an easy argument that this law was never intended to keep otherwise law-abiding citizens from exercising their right to own a firearm. And in a western state like Colorado, we're bound to have a good number of legal medical marijuana patients who also enjoy blasting some wildlife with a 12-gauge and bringing it home for dinner.
Though the timing on the memo was surprising, the stance of the ATF isn't. Westword actually got clarification on the marijuana/gun ownership issue last year in a blog post by former staffer Joel Warner. At the time, the Colorado Bureau of Investigations, which processes the ATF gun applications, had no access to the medical marijuana registry. New state medical marijuana laws have changed that situation to some degree. Law enforcement still can't blindly cross reference the entire MMJ registry with gun registries and concealed handgun permits. But agents do have the ability to search on a case-by-case basis to see who may or may not have concealed permits in the state.
It's also interesting to note that there is no law against purchasing, possessing or firing a gun with a bottle of beer in your hand. You can't be drunk, but you can be drinking. Logic and the ATF don't always see eye to eye, however. Remember, this is the same group of people who thought arming Mexican drug cartels with automatic weapons would be a good idea.
 

Snafu1236

Well-Known Member
Awesome post, Edgar! Thank you.

Most important piece here for MMJ patients who have/want LTC:

" If a medical marijuana patient checks yes, then they aren't able to purchase or carry a gun. If they answer no, then they are lying in the eyes of the feds and could face prosecution.
"

-Snafu
 

Snafu1236

Well-Known Member
Scariest part:

At the time, the Colorado Bureau of Investigations, which processes the ATF gun applications, had no access to the medical marijuana registry. New state medical marijuana laws have changed that situation to some degree. Law enforcement still can't blindly cross reference the entire MMJ registry with gun registries and concealed handgun permits. But agents do have the ability to search on a case-by-case basis to see who may or may not have concealed permits in the state.
 

mayhem01

Member
I think we are all talking out our ass until we have proof...does anyone know of a case? It is my opinion that until someone can say Blank V. Blank did it, We don't REALLY know what we are talking about right? anyone agree? even if it's a law someone must test it before we know what happens. But I don't know WTF I'm talking about either...
 

mayhem01

Member
I agree Edgar, As it states "sent to federal firearm licensees and gun shops" Which is the same Liscence. I know were in a Grayish area, and It looks like you have done your homework. I need to ask Do you have an LTC or FID? I did NOT recieve this letter. It sounds illegal. My GUESS is it will come down to, What the police charge you with, How good of a lawyer and the judges outlook. I'm not saying it's right or anyone should do it. I am curious of the punishment though...(Don't want to find out the hard way either) Edgar are you opposed to guns?
 

Edgar9

Well-Known Member
I agree Edgar, As it states "sent to federal firearm licensees and gun shops" Which is the same Liscence. I know were in a Grayish area, and It looks like you have done your homework. I need to ask Do you have an LTC or FID? I did NOT recieve this letter. It sounds illegal. My GUESS is it will come down to, What the police charge you with, How good of a lawyer and the judges outlook. I'm not saying it's right or anyone should do it. I am curious of the punishment though...(Don't want to find out the hard way either) Edgar are you opposed to guns?
I found the memo from the ATF online because I heard it was out there. I currently do not have an FID card or LTC but I would like to get my class A unrestricted LTC. So as you can imagine I am not opposed to guns. The reason I've been doing my homework on this issue is because I feel that if I become a patient then I won't be able to get my LTC. Not only would I be committing a felony lying on the form but I would imagine they would cross check with the DPH and see if you have any mental issues and at that point they would see the MMJ recommendation.
If I don't become a patient and decide to use/grow under the radar my findings are scary. It seems like they can really fuck you if you get caught growing and have a gun around.
As you stated it's probably a case by case basis in terms of if they throw the book at you. Personally I will most likely not pursue my LTC and give up my 2nd amendment rights in order to become a patient and grow. That way I'll run zero risk of getting in big trouble.
Now I know a lot of people, such as snafu, would call this a "puss" out, but I just don't want to take the risk. I'll play by their rules. If they will let me be a patient and grow legally then I can go without a gun. We each have to make our own decisions based on our own tolerance level towards breaking the law.

If you already have an LTC and you become a patient it wouldn't surprise me that if when you have your annual renewal of your LTC that they nail you and take away your LTC. I heard some states are cross checking but I'm not sure about MA.
 

Kahdabber

Member
I posted the samething in a different forum but I have an appointment with cannamed 4/11 and I have my med records from my nuerologist and my primary care physician and also a 200 $money order my state Id and ss card I suffer from a seizure dissorder and CVS do I need anything else to obtian my lisence and also just wondering will RI dispensary be able to provide me with meds if so which one is best around my area I'm on the border of rhode island near tiverton ....thank you everyone ...if need be I can provide anyone with my email if that is an easier method of communication
 

Snafu1236

Well-Known Member
I posted the samething in a different forum but I have an appointment with cannamed 4/11 and I have my med records from my nuerologist and my primary care physician and also a 200 $money order my state Id and ss card I suffer from a seizure dissorder and CVS do I need anything else to obtian my lisence and also just wondering will RI dispensary be able to provide me with meds if so which one is best around my area I'm on the border of rhode island near tiverton ....thank you everyone ...if need be I can provide anyone with my email if that is an easier method of communication
Use periods.
 

Kahdabber

Member
Sorry I didn't intend to offend anybody with my poor use of writting skills. Just looking for some help/tips that's all.
 
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