Afganistan Collapse

BudmanTX said:

naw they didn't, they wanted to stay.......after the Doha Agreement was signed......ah hell broke loose.....

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We have always had ways to bend the rules where necessary or even convenient. The Doha agreement was not that inflexibly binding. To me that points to a fairly big policy miss by team Biden, assuming the news story is correct.

CatHedral said:

We have always had ways to bend the rules where necessary or even convenient. The Doha agreement was not that inflexibly binding. To me that points to a fairly big policy miss by team Biden, assuming the news story is correct.

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Do you think we should have stayed at war in Afghanistan?

hanimmal said:

That is nice. But that doesn't change the fact that you are trolling with Right wing talking point bullshit. And doing it pretty nonstop.

I don't mind criticism, are you such a snowflake that pointing out the trolling that you are doing is bullshit?

Did you read that link you posted before you decided what it said?

Because the conclusion of that title is slightly misleading.

Did the generals say that Biden should 'just keep 2500' troops in Afghanistan' like the interviewer asked Biden that he replied the interview 'no, not that he recalled'? Because that was not what I heard, it sounded ike they said that they would need to increase the troops if they were to stay and support the Afghan government forever, which Biden did not want to do.

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You know what sucks, I'm critical of Biden the same as I was obama...but I gotta just shut up so I don't get mistaken for one of those goofy Republicans. Tan suits and mustard choices, well I'm going to be silent there and just mock the shit out of Republicans because their agenda is dog shit with zero ideas on improving the nation so they make fake ass arguments. Fuck, just crib a Darth Vader speech about peace through violence/strength. Instead the clouds are green and the republicans are mad that a gay trans race theorist gets to teach a class at a community College.

*nonsensical rant donezo

hanimmal said:

Do you think we should have stayed in Afghanistan?

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I think we should have departed in a slower and more orderly manner, giving Afghani nationals who threw in with us a realistic option of leaving before the inevitable Taliban takeover.

Frankly I think we should have never walked in. But that is moot. Once in, it became our job to extricate ourselves with the least disruption to the lives of the people left in place.

hanimmal said:

That is nice. But that doesn't change the fact that you are trolling with Right wing talking point bullshit. And doing it pretty nonstop.

I don't mind criticism, are you such a snowflake that pointing out the trolling that you are doing is bullshit?

Did you read that link you posted before you decided what it said?

Because the conclusion of that title is slightly misleading.

Did the generals say that Biden should 'just keep 2500' troops in Afghanistan' like the interviewer asked Biden that he replied the interview 'no, not that he recalled'? Because that was not what I heard, it sounded ike they said that they would need to increase the troops if they were to stay and support the Afghan government forever, which Biden did not want to do.

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I think you're missing the point. I want my President to give me honest and accurate info. That isn't a right-wing talking point, or trolling. "Not that I recall" reminds me of Reagan back in the 80's, and is quite disingenuous.

Apparently you think these Generals are lying under oath? Interesting.

HGCC said:

You know what sucks, I'm critical of Biden the same as I was obama...but I gotta just shut up so I don't get mistaken for one of those goofy Republicans. Tan suits and mustard choices, well I'm going to be silent there and just mock the shit out of Republicans because their agenda is dog shit with zero ideas on improving the nation so they make fake ass arguments. Fuck, just crib a Darth Vader speech about peace through violence/strength. Instead the clouds are green and the republicans are mad that a gay trans race theorist gets to teach a class at a community College.

*nonsensical rant donezo

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But see that's what's stupid about the current world of politics.. You disagree with one action that your elected official(s) make, and you're suddenly thrown to the opposite side of the street. Apparently in 2021 you have to be all-in or all-out. Mob mentality at it's finest.

PJ Diaz said:

But see that's what's stupid about the current world of politics.. You disagree with one action that your elected official(s) make, and you're suddenly thrown to the opposite side of the street. Apparently in 2021 you have to be all-in or all-out. Mob mentality at it's finest.

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You realize how funny that is when you consider the articles you post..?

It's more that there is such a barrage of disingenuous criticism that I dont feel compelled to add my own.

I wouldn't say I am all in for anyone, but there is a growing percentage of the population and their representatives that I am absolutely all out for and don't give two shits to hear their point, I want nothing to do with the chucklefucks and am willing to put my views on the back burner to oppose those who advocate for things I despise.

HGCC said:

You know what sucks, I'm critical of Biden the same as I was obama...but I gotta just shut up so I don't get mistaken for one of those goofy Republicans. Tan suits and mustard choices, well I'm going to be silent there and just mock the shit out of Republicans because their agenda is dog shit with zero ideas on improving the nation so they make fake ass arguments. Fuck, just crib a Darth Vader speech about peace through violence/strength. Instead the clouds are green and the republicans are mad that a gay trans race theorist gets to teach a class at a community College.

*nonsensical rant donezo

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It really sucks that any actual issues that there are to bitch about Biden have to get drowned out by the right wing noise machine making them all seem quaint.

CatHedral said:

I think we should have departed in a slower and more orderly manner, giving Afghani nationals who threw in with us a realistic option of leaving before the inevitable Taliban takeover.

Frankly I think we should have never walked in. But that is moot. Once in, it became our job to extricate ourselves with the least disruption to the lives of the people left in place.

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That gets into the 11 days it took for the Afghan military/government to fold that nobody thought would be that fast based on the testimony of the generals. At that point would you have rather seen a continued withdraw or a redeployment and warfare or stick to the timeline?

PJ Diaz said:

I think you're missing the point. I want my President to give me honest and accurate info.

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Oh I think I get your point just fine. I just think that you are full of shit.

Did you miss the part that the generals said that they would need more support than just the 2500 troops if they were to stay there to keep the Afghan government propped up?

PJ Diaz said:

I think you're missing the point. I want my President to give me honest and accurate info. That isn't a right-wing talking point, or trolling. "Not that I recall" reminds me of Reagan back in the 80's, and is quite disingenuous.

Apparently you think these Generals are lying under oath? Interesting.

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No I think that the generals were very forthcoming and not lying at all. I do think though that you are incorrect in thinking that the question that was asked Biden included the extra support that the 2500 troops would have needed so that you can pretend like you have a valid argument using a Republican bullshit talking point to troll Biden with.

hanimmal said:

It really sucks that any actual issues that there are to bitch about Biden have to get drowned out by the right wing noise machine making them all seem quaint.


That gets into the 11 days it took for the Afghan military/government to fold that nobody thought would be that fast based on the testimony of the generals. At that point would you have rather seen a continued withdraw or a redeployment and warfare or stick to the timeline?


Oh I think I get your point just fine. I just think that you are full of shit.

Did you miss the part that the generals said that they would need more support than just the 2500 troops if they were to stay there to keep the Afghan government propped up?

No I think that the generals were very forthcoming and not lying at all. I do think though that you are incorrect in thinking that the question that was asked Biden included the extra support that the 2500 troops would have needed so that you can pretend like you have a valid argument using a Republican bullshit talking point to troll Biden with.

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Oh man. I don’t know. I have no access to raw intel. That is usually where the info is found to make such decisions. Like everyone else, I’m bound to interpreting the bits of data that make it to my little warren.

HGCC said:

It's more that there is such a barrage of disingenuous criticism that I dont feel compelled to add my own.

I wouldn't say I am all in for anyone, but there is a growing percentage of the population and their representatives that I am absolutely all out for and don't give two shits to hear their point, I want nothing to do with the chucklefucks and am willing to put my views on the back burner to oppose those who advocate for things I despise.

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This exactly. Picking out the nuance actual shit from the over exaggerated bullshit is overwhelming and like you said just gets lumped in and trolled from the other side.

here is the one line that screwed us:

The Doha Agreement also dealt with the withdrawal from Afghanistan of "all military forces of the United States, its allies, and Coalition partners, including all non-diplomatic civilian personnel, private security contractors, trainers, advisors, and supporting services personnel"

now if that was written differently.....eh who knows....

CatHedral said:

Oh man. I don’t know. I have no access to raw intel. That is usually where the info is found to make such decisions. Like everyone else, I’m bound to interpreting the bits of data that make it to my little warren.

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Right on man, this is exactly where I am with it too. I can't say that it wasn't a mistake, I am sure there are dozens that were made that is able to be looked at in hindsight as a fuck up, but it also would have been a better way to do it, there is not a real way to know, which is why it is so troll-able.

BudmanTX said:

here is the one line that screwed us:

The Doha Agreement also dealt with the withdrawal from Afghanistan of "all military forces of the United States, its allies, and Coalition partners, including all non-diplomatic civilian personnel, private security contractors, trainers, advisors, and supporting services personnel"

now if that was written differently.....eh who knows....

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Yeah that would do it.

hanimmal said:

Right on man, this is exactly where I am with it too. I can't say that it wasn't a mistake, I am sure there are dozens that were made that is able to be looked at in hindsight as a fuck up, but it also would have been a better way to do it, there is not a real way to know, which is why it is so troll-able.


Yeah that would do it.

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Bingo.
It hits me in that part of my gut where sentiment and info collide and arrange set-piece battles. They’re entertaining but of questionable long-term value.

Taliban say US drone flights violate Trump-era deal
The Taliban on Tuesday asked the U.S. to cease drone patrols in Afghan airspace, arguing they violate an agreement made last year between the group and the Trump administration, The Washington Post reported.

The deal between the Trump White House and the Taliban, also known as the Agreement for Bringing Peace to Afghanistan, was signed February 29, 2020 in Doha, Qatar, initiating the end of the nearly-20-year war.

Taliban spokesman Zabihullah Mujahid said in a statement to the Post that the “US is violating the Doha agreement and International laws. The US actions are contrary to it had committed in Doha, Qatar. We hope the US should review its actions, and stop intrusion into our space.”

“We call upon all the countries, especially the US, to respect Afghanistan sovereignty under the international laws. We expect mutual respect from all to avoid mishaps,” he reportedly continued.

“Under the international laws, every state is responsible for defending the sovereignty of its air and ground space,” Mujahid said.

The Post report came as top U.S. military leaders faced rough questions from senators on Capitol Hill on the handling of the withdrawal from Afghanistan, which was swiftly followed by the Taliban takeover.

"Did you get that in writing?"

if the Chinese needed to be re-assured that our instability won't lead to war..why would an unstable nation go to war when they are unstable?

schuylaar said:

if the Chinese needed to be re-assured that our instability won't lead to war..why would an unstable nation go to war when they are unstable?

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Unstable nations cannot control their warlike elements, especially those who hold the keys.

This was a pretty great moment from today.

CatHedral said:

I think we should have departed in a slower and more orderly manner

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here's what i don't understand:

signed in feb 2020. what did trump do during that time forward to extricate our shit and people? only thing i read was Goebels errr stephen miller's racism against the brown people led the trump gov't to do hardly anything. like our translators and "friends" that were sure to be executed by the taliban

you can't occupy a sovereign nation for 20 years and expect to pull out in a few months IMO

BudmanTX said:

here is the one line that screwed us:

The Doha Agreement also dealt with the withdrawal from Afghanistan of "all military forces of the United States, its allies, and Coalition partners, including all non-diplomatic civilian personnel, private security contractors, trainers, advisors, and supporting services personnel"

now if that was written differently.....eh who knows....

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aren't the repubs that always say you can't negotiate with terrorists? unless you are the mango moron?