Afganistan Collapse

xtsho said:

Many of the Afghanis didn't lay down their weapons. They just changed into Taliban garb. They only joined the Afghan army for a paycheck. They were always Taliban.

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xtsho said:

Many of the Afghanis didn't lay down their weapons. They just changed into Taliban garb. They only joined the Afghan army for a paycheck. They were always Taliban.

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printer said:

Germany was done, Japan was not. Whole different case.

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Lucky Luke said:

Japan was just about done. You guys keep forgetting Russia.

"The impact of the Soviet declaration of war and invasion of Manchuria and Sakhalin Island was quite different, however. Once the Soviet Union had declared war, Stalin could no longer act as a mediator — he was now a belligerent. So the diplomatic option was wiped out by the Soviet move. The effect on the military situation was equally dramatic. Most of Japan’s best troops had been shifted to the southern part of the home islands. Japan’s military had correctly guessed that the likely first target of an American invasion would be the southernmost island of Kyushu. The once proud Kwangtung army in Manchuria, for example, was a shell of its former self because its best units had been shifted away to defend Japan itself. When the Russians invaded Manchuria, they sliced through what had once been an elite army and many Russian units only stopped when they ran out of gas. The Soviet 16th Army — 100,000 strong — launched an invasion of the southern half of Sakhalin Island. Their orders were to mop up Japanese resistance there, and then — within 10 to 14 days — be prepared to invade Hokkaido, the northernmost of Japan’s home islands. The Japanese force tasked with defending Hokkaido, the 5th Area Army, was under strength at two divisions and two brigades, and was in fortified positions on the east side of the island. The Soviet plan of attack called for an invasion of Hokkaido from the west. " - https://foreignpolicy.com/2013/05/30/the-bomb-didnt-beat-japan-stalin-did/

And lets not forget that America then created the Cold War due to the dropping of weapons of mass destruction on a country with only a few small "cities" left standing.

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CANBERRA, Australia (AP) — Australia has canceled a contract with France for conventional submarines and instead will build nuclear-powered submarines using U.S. technology because of changing strategic conditions in the region, Prime Minister Scott Morrison said Thursday.

President Joe Biden announced on Wednesday a new U.S. security alliance with Australia and Britain that will help equip Australia with a nuclear submarine fleet.

The agreement would make Australia the first country without nuclear weapons to obtain nuclear-powered submarines.

Morrison said U.S. nuclear submarine technology wasn’t available to Australia in 2016 when it entered a 56 billion Australian dollar ($43 billion) deal with France to build 12 of the world’s largest conventional diesel-electric submarines. The United States has previously only shared the technology with Britain.

Biden did not mention China by name in announcing the new security alliance, but it is likely to be seen as a provocative move by Beijing, whose military strength and influence have grown rapidly.

Peter Jennings, head of the Australian Strategic Policy Institute think tank, said Australia’s decision to acquire nuclear submarines was a response to China’s increasing military might, aggressive bullying of Australia and intimidation of Japan and Taiwan.

“We should call the first submarine in this new category the ‘Xi Jinping,’ because no person is more responsible for Australia going down this track than the current leader of the Chinese Communist Party,” Jennings said.

Australia notified France that it will end its contract with DCNS, a majority state-owned company, to build the conventional submarines. Australia has spent AU$2.4 billion ($1.8 billion) on the project since 2016. The first of the French-designed submarines was to have been delivered in 2027.

French Foreign Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian expressed “total incomprehension” at the decision and criticized both Australia and the United States.

“It was really a stab in the back. We built a relationship of trust with Australia, and this trust was betrayed,” Le Drian said Thursday on France-Info radio.

Morrison said he told French President Emanuel Macron in June that there were “very real issues about whether a conventional submarine capability” would address Australia’s strategic security needs in the Indo-Pacific.

“Of course they’re disappointed,” Morrison said. “They’ve been good partners. This is about our strategic interest, our strategic capability requirements and a changed strategic environment and we’ve had to take that decision.”

Unlike nuclear-powered submarines, conventional subs that are traveling long distances must spend time on the surface, where they are most vulnerable, using their diesel engines while they recharge their batteries. The batteries propel them underwater.

Morrison said he expects the first of the nuclear subs, which are to be constructed in the Australian city of Adelaide, will be built by 2040.

He said Australia hasn’t decided which class of nuclear submarines it will select and does not know how much the fleet of at least eight submarines will cost. But the country’s defense budget will grow above the current 2.2% of gross domestic product, he said.

British Prime Minister Boris Johnson told Parliament on Thursday that the alliance with Australia and the U.S. is a “new pillar of a strategy demonstrating Britain’s generational commitment to the security of the Indo-Pacific.”

Stressing Britain’s long-standing close relationship with Australia, he said the alliance also shows “how we can help one of our oldest friends to preserve regional stability.”

Paul Keating, a former Australian prime minister from the opposition Labor Party and an adviser to the state-owned China Development Bank, slammed the new nuclear alliance, saying “materiel dependency on the United States robbed Australia of any freedom or choice in any engagement Australia may deem appropriate.”

Left out of the new alliance is Australia’s South Pacific neighbor New Zealand, which enacted policies in the 1980s to ensure it remains nuclear-free. That includes a ban on nuclear-powered ships entering New Zealand ports, a stance which has seen it clash at times with the U.S.

Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern said Thursday that New Zealand wasn’t asked to be part of the alliance and wouldn’t have expected an invitation.

“The centerpiece, the anchor of this arrangement are nuclear-powered submarines,” Ardern said. “And it will be very clear to all New Zealanders, and to Australia, why New Zealand would not wish to be a part of that project.”

Ardern said the new alliance doesn’t diminish its close ties to the U.S., Britain and Australia.

Morrison said Ardern was the first foreign leader he called to explain the new alliance. He later called the leaders of Japan and India, which together with the United States and Australia form the Quad security dialogue.

“She was my first call because of the strength of our relationship and the relationship between our countries,” Morrison said. “All in the region will benefit from the peace and the stability and security that this partnership will add to our region.”

The Chinese government has long suspended minister-to-minister contact with Australia because of soured bilateral relations. But Morrison said he was willing to discuss the new alliance with President Xi Jinping.

“There’s an open invitation for President Xi to discuss these and many other matters,” Morrison said.

“I believe and hope we would both share the same objective of a peaceful Indo-Pacific where the sovereignty and independence of nations is understood and respected and that enables their own citizens to flourish,” he said.

Chinese Ministry of Foreign Affairs spokesperson Zhao Lijian said it was “highly irresponsible” for the U.S. and Britain to export the nuclear technology, and that Australia was to blame for a breakdown in bilateral relations.

“The most urgent task is for Australia to correctly recognize the reasons for the setbacks in the relations between the two countries, and think carefully whether to treat China as a partner or a threat,” Zhao said.

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hanimmal said:

What is your take on the subs we are working together to get you all down under?

https://apnews.com/article/joe-biden-business-france-europe-united-states-96f95120345a56d950961b41a74d9355View attachment 4991259

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Lucky Luke said:

Crazy. We pissed off the French who has been fantastic ally of the States since your world or Indepence. So you issed them off a heap to..lol. French will have to suck it up with a 2 Billion plus (lot of $ for Australia defence budget) cancelation fee. In 20 years when we will get them..maybe longer if it's like the jets we ordered off the US......
I think they are as good as a fart in a fair breeze compared to what China could bring to the party. Australia is making itself the No Man Lands of a future war. A few Prime Ministers ago we had a Labor Prime Minister by the name of Kevin Rudd who did a much better political and more importantly Diplomatic job with China.

We cannot crew the Diesel electric subs we have.
Electric is quieter and thats been proven over and over again against fleet warfare games.
Australia is not in the nuclear weapons club and this puts us a step closer.
They are to be built in South Australia and the residences are very happy to build more ships but don't want to be the target so dont want Nuclear
Not many countries in our region it can dock being nuke, so less good will with Pacific and South Pacific islands.
Why is Australia doing this deal PLUS leasing US subs with a country that has dragged us into every single one of their wars since WW2, most questionable at best and lost.

We will now be a potential nuclear target.

Love subs. Not a fan of nukes for a defence fleet. We will get walked over like a fly over yesterday's roast If push comes to shove.

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CANBERRA, Australia (AP) — France would have known Australia had “deep and grave concerns” that a submarine fleet the French were building would not meet Australian needs, Prime Minister Scott Morrison said Sunday after the contract’s cancellation set off a diplomatic crisis.

France accused Australia of concealing its intentions to back out of the 90 billion Australian dollar ($66 billion) contract for French majority state-owned Naval Group to build 12 conventional diesel-electric submarines.

President Joe Biden revealed last week a new alliance including Australia and Britain that would deliver an Australian fleet of at least eight nuclear-powered submarines.

Morrison blamed the switch on a deteriorating strategic environment in the Indo-Pacific. He has not specifically referred to China’s massive military buildup, which has gained pace in recent years.

“The capability that the Attack class submarines were going to provide was not what Australia needed to protect our sovereign interests,” Morrison said.

“They would have had every reason to know that we have deep and grave concerns that the capability being delivered by the Attack class submarine was not going to meet our strategic interests and we have made very clear that we would be making a decision based on our strategic national interest,” he added, referring to the French government.

France responded to the contract cancellation, which Morrison has said will cost his government at least AU$2.4 billion ($1.7 billion), by recalling its ambassadors from Australia and the United States.

French Foreign Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian on Saturday denounced what he called the “duplicity, disdain and lies” surrounding the sudden end of the contract and said France was now questioning the strength of the alliance.

On Sunday, the French government spokesman said President Emmanuel Macron will speak in the coming days with Biden in what will be their first contact since the crisis erupted.

The phone call is at the request of Biden, spokesman Gabriel Attal said, adding that there was “shock” and “anger” at first. But now it’s time to try to move forward, he said.

China has denounced the sharing of such U.S. and British nuclear technology as irresponsible.

France won the contract in 2016 over offers from Germany and Japan. The Shortfin Barracuda was to be a nuclear submarine design adapted to be powered by diesel on the surface and battery underwater.

Japan was particularly disappointed because then-Prime Minister Tony Abbott had promised the close defense ally the contract before he was deposed by his own party in 2015.

The government has talked down media reports of ructions between the partners in the French submarine project and delays on the original delivery date of 2027.

There have been concerns of a defense capability gap emerging that the aging Australia-made Collins class conventional submarines could not fill.

Australia’s first nuclear submarines are not expected to be delivered until close to 2040.

Defense Minister Peter Dutton said his government was prepared to lease nuclear submarines from the United States while Australia’s fleet was being built.

Dutton and Foreign Minister Marise Payne are in the United States for annual meetings with their U.S. counterparts and their first with the Biden administration.

Morrison flies to the United States on Monday for a meeting with Biden and the leaders of India and Japan that make up the Quad security forum.

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hanimmal said:

It looks like they might have been concerned that the French subs were not going to get the job done. That might just be after decision noise, but I guess time will tell.
https://apnews.com/article/joe-biden-business-china-europe-australia-391ff990f7eba2b16070c8399aea73aa
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Lucky Luke said:

French subs were meant to be built nuclear and we asked them to change the propulsion.
What large scale defence contract doesn't have concerns..Strike Fighter anyone.
But they were fine when we signed the contract....
I'm not a fan of our current Prime Minister. he is a Pentecostal (Hillsong).

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CANBERRA, Australia (AP) —

French and Australian officials said Monday that France’s anger over a canceled submarine contract will not derail negotiations on an Australia-European Union free trade deal.

France withdrew its ambassadors to the United States and Australia after President Joe Biden revealed last week a new alliance including Australia and Britain that would deliver an Australian fleet of at least eight nuclear-powered submarines.

The deal sunk a 90 billion Australian dollar ($66 billion) contract for French majority state-owned Naval Group to build 12 conventional diesel-electric submarines for Australia. The money would have been spent over 35 years.

French Ambassador to Australia Jean-Pierre Thebault denied media reports that France was lobbying the European Union not to sign the trade deal with Australia that has been under negotiation since 2018.

“At this stage, negotiations do continue and there is a strong interest ... for Australia to have a free trade agreement with the EU,” Thebault told Australian Broadcasting Corp. from Paris.

Such a deal “has the potential to deliver a huge amount of benefits for Australia,” Thebault added.

Australian Trade Minister Dan Tehan said he would travel to Paris within weeks for trade negations and was “very keen to touch base with my French counterpart,” Franck Riester.

“There’s a strong understanding from my recent trip to Europe to discuss the EU free trade agreement this is in the mutual interests of both Australia and of Europe,” Tehan said, referring to an April visit.

“I see no reason why those discussions won’t continue,” Tehan added.

French President Emmanuel Macron will speak in the coming days with Biden in their first contact since the diplomatic crisis erupted.

Australian Prime Minister Scott Morrison flew to the United States on Monday for a meeting with Biden and the leaders of India and Japan that make up the Quad security forum.

“This is all about, always about ensuring that Australia’s sovereign interests will be put first to ensure that Australians here can live peacefully with the many others in our region, because that’s what we desire as a peaceful and free nation,” Morrison said before departing Sydney.

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hanimmal said:

It doesn't look like this really changes anything with you guys and France anyways.

https://apnews.com/article/joe-biden-business-france-australia-united-states-9f9c52535911636834b0f5f464379681
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sonnyjim said:

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https://www.rollitup.org/t/ap-us-terrorism-alert-warns-of-politically-motivated-violence.1044390/post-16559319

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schuylaar said:

so Tom Cotton is complaining about leaving Afghans behind?

isn't he from the party that supports immigration ban specifically of Muslims?

didn't they close our borders and BAN Muslims..but he's concerned NOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW?

he RAN on BANNING them.

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