sparki
Active Member
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3absFPTdXuk this is what turned me to AN
advanced nutrients vs. fox farm
- Thread starter davemoney
- Start date
jberry
Well-Known Member
the video was classic... all the AN marketing video's are.
ive talked to their reps in person a few times and they are some real car salesman conmen imo.
but i say we give in and let the AN users be in peace, ive got in so many debates about AN being broken down into 20 parts and way overpriced ect. ect., but im finally realizing its a worthless battle, i why should i care what these randoms are doing??...
After all, it is their money to spend how ever they want, and ive never once seen a AN lover change his mind about how great AN is unless they come to the conclusion on their own from their own experiences...
anyways, peaceout players.
ive talked to their reps in person a few times and they are some real car salesman conmen imo.
but i say we give in and let the AN users be in peace, ive got in so many debates about AN being broken down into 20 parts and way overpriced ect. ect., but im finally realizing its a worthless battle, i why should i care what these randoms are doing??...
After all, it is their money to spend how ever they want, and ive never once seen a AN lover change his mind about how great AN is unless they come to the conclusion on their own from their own experiences...
anyways, peaceout players.
laserbrn
Well-Known Member
Never once huh? Figure it out guy.
jberry
Well-Known Member
not sure what ur problem is, but thanks for the killer advise !
what did i say that offended you?
im on your side for the most part, i even gave u +rep for one of the posts u made in this thread about making your own toothpaste because it made me laugh... i like it when you are funny more then when you are a dick
laserbrn
Well-Known Member
I actually just took your post wrong. I thought you were being snotty about AN users. I'm still pretty sure you were trying to be.
You called their reps conmen and used care salesman. You basically came off as saying you are anti-AN and have given up on arguing with people because they simply refuse to listen. (I didn't quote exactly because I want you to understand how I read it). I was just pointing out that if ALL of the users of AN products refuse to listen to you or anyone else who is anti-AN, maybe that customer loyalty isn't unfounded.
Sorry if you found that offensive.
jberry
Well-Known Member
ok, thats a fair enough answer for me.
everything u said is pretty close to the truth, but i got no beef with the users of AN, but i am a bit anti AN when it comes to the company itself.... no biggie. i actually think AN gives pretty good results, i just have my reasons that i dont like them (im not going to list those reasons because i dont want to start the drama up)
anyhow, no hard feelings, i wasnt trying to insult anyone here.
everything u said is pretty close to the truth, but i got no beef with the users of AN, but i am a bit anti AN when it comes to the company itself.... no biggie. i actually think AN gives pretty good results, i just have my reasons that i dont like them (im not going to list those reasons because i dont want to start the drama up)
anyhow, no hard feelings, i wasnt trying to insult anyone here.
Uncle Ben
Well-Known Member
Of course. It's all about the money. Advertisements work on many, reason why the world is full of ads. Me? Mama didn't raise no fool.
Any one can grow plants like those (the ones being mangled in the YouTube video) with a dollar's worth of Walmart plant food and some indica dom beans. It's a weed but ironically it's the folks that buy such products that screw up their plants the worst, and for very good reason - they focus on gimmicks and not what makes a plant tick. Some of the worst gardens and pathetic plants I've ever seen are from folks who have pissed off a $1,000 on beans, equipment, supplies, and rocket fuels.
AN's (and others) goal is to offer so many products, with so many instructions, with so many detailed timelines, with so many kiddie names and colorful labels "that you just HAVE to try 'em all!"
Funny stuff.
BonusAgricola
Member
Sorry to hijack the post but I'm new here and have to give some background info...I'm currently in the middle of my 4th grow. The first 3 were in a home-made box under 4-foot flourescents, and this time we're doing it right with MH and HPS lights. Before I ever started I did a ton of research on the web (thanks, Erowid) and figured out the lowest budget best way I could. I used 2 different kinds of lights in a 4x2 space and ended up with about 3000 lumens/sq ft. and a halfway decent spectrum, at least for flourescents.
Under the flourescents I ran the first two rounds with Miracle Gro Veg and Bloom ferts with some espom salt toward the end of flowering. The 3rd time I used Advanced Nutrients Iguana Juice, Voodoo Juice, and Piranha during the vegetative period. I added Carbo Load and Big Bud during flowering, and I topped all the plants at about the 5th split.
I have to say that my largest plant came from the first Miracle Gro round, but my grow box was also in the best environment of the three. However, the Advanced Nutrients made my plants' lower branches grow much better, and the buds were much juicier and covered with crystals.
This time we went higher budget and are using more nutes in a 4x4 Sun tent with a 400w MH for veg and HPS for flowering. We we are using the AN Iguana, Voodoo, Piranha, Nirvana, and Kushie Kush, with half the plants getting Bud Candy and half getting Humboldt Honey for a sweetener. We are also adding a drop or two per gallon SUPERthrive. The lights definitely had an impact; the plants grew twice as fast during the vegetative state, and we're sitting 17 days into the 12/12 cycle with 4 1/2 ft tall, twice-topped and bended plants with about 20+ splits.
The three things I would say that actually have shown marked results are the Piranha, Voodoo Juice, and SUPERthrive. The first two make your roots absolutely explode, and the SUPERthrive made our seedlings grow amazingly fast.
Anyways, IMHO almost everyone on this thread has a point. You definitely need to research the primary and secondary nutrient needs and choose fertilizers which fit your opinion of what is right. The more expensive brands all have their own ways of providing the nutrients and trace minerals plants need. In my experience, there wasn't a whole lot of difference between the cheap stuff and the expensive stuff as far as yield, but my buds were way sweeter.
I would also say that spending a lot of time with your plants and monitoring their growth with a journal is just as, if not more, important than which brand of fertilizer you use, as long as you understand their basic needs. And thanks Uncle Ben for all your posts in this and other threads. Lots of great info.
Under the flourescents I ran the first two rounds with Miracle Gro Veg and Bloom ferts with some espom salt toward the end of flowering. The 3rd time I used Advanced Nutrients Iguana Juice, Voodoo Juice, and Piranha during the vegetative period. I added Carbo Load and Big Bud during flowering, and I topped all the plants at about the 5th split.
I have to say that my largest plant came from the first Miracle Gro round, but my grow box was also in the best environment of the three. However, the Advanced Nutrients made my plants' lower branches grow much better, and the buds were much juicier and covered with crystals.
This time we went higher budget and are using more nutes in a 4x4 Sun tent with a 400w MH for veg and HPS for flowering. We we are using the AN Iguana, Voodoo, Piranha, Nirvana, and Kushie Kush, with half the plants getting Bud Candy and half getting Humboldt Honey for a sweetener. We are also adding a drop or two per gallon SUPERthrive. The lights definitely had an impact; the plants grew twice as fast during the vegetative state, and we're sitting 17 days into the 12/12 cycle with 4 1/2 ft tall, twice-topped and bended plants with about 20+ splits.
The three things I would say that actually have shown marked results are the Piranha, Voodoo Juice, and SUPERthrive. The first two make your roots absolutely explode, and the SUPERthrive made our seedlings grow amazingly fast.
Anyways, IMHO almost everyone on this thread has a point. You definitely need to research the primary and secondary nutrient needs and choose fertilizers which fit your opinion of what is right. The more expensive brands all have their own ways of providing the nutrients and trace minerals plants need. In my experience, there wasn't a whole lot of difference between the cheap stuff and the expensive stuff as far as yield, but my buds were way sweeter.
I would also say that spending a lot of time with your plants and monitoring their growth with a journal is just as, if not more, important than which brand of fertilizer you use, as long as you understand their basic needs. And thanks Uncle Ben for all your posts in this and other threads. Lots of great info.
RickWhite
Well-Known Member
I've used Peter's 20-20-20 with fantastic results but assumed the higher end stuff must be better. I'm starting to see that sometimes experience and reputation beats the latest greatest.
Uncle Ben
Well-Known Member
Of course, that's part of the marketing design. If I had a clothing store and on one rack I had a shirt priced at a discount of $9.95 and on another rack the same shirt was priced at $19.95, most people would think the value priced item was somehow inferior.
AN bases its marketing approaches on feelings, not facts. (There is NO WAY you can confirm what they represent.) They know their markets' psychology, they understand that their customers are dreamers. They put themselves into the position of fulfilling customers' dreams and hopes, psychologically.....telling their target group what they think they want to hear. They further their marketing design with tools like application charts and such, furthering stoners' affinity for a certain ideology, which further puts their target group under their control. If your plants looks like shit after following their advice for 12 weeks, you the grower will succomb to self-flagellation rather than analyzing the company's "advice". A grower's self empowerment is the last thing they want - it's all about the money.
I'm a business man. Difference between me and a group like AN is with me, you'll not get ripped off and will always receive a quality product at a fair price.
UB
Just look at the label.. Peters, while good, is only good as a soil nutrient. It's missing a lot of micros. All hydro food can be used in soil but not all soil food can be used in hydro. 90% of this is genitics. Your job is to make everything the plant might need available.
If you were doing a grow big vs 20-20-20 then my money would be on the tripple 20. BUT, what about flower? Tiger Bloom plus Big Bloom is pretty sweet and I know peat don't make a tea like that.
As for AN they have some good products that FF has no match for. Big Bud, Bud Blood, Bud Candy to name a few. Those are good products that really work.
If you were doing a grow big vs 20-20-20 then my money would be on the tripple 20. BUT, what about flower? Tiger Bloom plus Big Bloom is pretty sweet and I know peat don't make a tea like that.
As for AN they have some good products that FF has no match for. Big Bud, Bud Blood, Bud Candy to name a few. Those are good products that really work.
What was your experience with AN when you used it and what did they represent that is not true? You live in America right? Isn't everything in marketing misrepresenting something to some extent? Beer companies will have to believe that if you drink there beer you'll have the best time of your life, chicks will dig you and men will respect you. "(There is NO WAY you can confirm what they represent.)"... welcome to the 21st century.
Uncle Ben
Well-Known Member
It is designed for potting soil. This looks pretty damn complete to me regarding micros, 7 of the most common, plus Mg. http://petersabc.com/PDFs/Peters%20Pro/99720ppro24-8-16FPL.pdf
http://petersabc.com/PDFs/Peters Pro/99290ppro20-20-20FPL.pdf
http://petersabc.com/PDFs/Peters Pro/99350ppro10-30-20FPL.pdf
Not necessarily. If you have too much Ca and your water source or your potting soil already has plenty of Ca, you can induce a lockout of other nutrients by applying a food that is rich in Ca. Soil-less is another treatment and should be treated like water culture. GH is not complete, Dyna-Gro is.
Those products do not support good flowering production, because they do not support leaf maintenance and health. Learn what makes a plant tick, it isn't catchy product names.
They better work! Questions you should be asking is "what is in them" and "are they a good value."
UB
Why should I be asking a question I already know the answer to? Whoa.. this is getting deep? How about, why aren't you answering the questions you don't think I have the answer to?
In your words, What IS in them? Do you know? If not then how can you tell me they are or are not a good value. While were at it let's get into a little critical thinking. What IS "a good value"? I'd assume that what you think is a good value is based on your own value system. I have a feeling that your value system is vastly different then most people here. Vastly..
laserbrn
Well-Known Member
UB,
I just decided I'm going to split my current veg space (8'x3') into two sides and I'm going to grow side by side w/ 600w lamps. One side will be soil, one side will be hydro. As I'm no expert on organics or soil I'm hoping you can be my guide. I've been a hydro guy a long time and I've done 2 soil grows, but for this comparison I'm looking for assistance and some expertise to try to make it fair.
I'm hoping that you can help me out and while I don't know that it will be AN vs Foxfarms, I do know that it will be AN vs organic/soil and I want it to be fair. I've grown (too many times to count, sheesh, you'd think I could at least remember) numerous times w/ hydro using AN so I have it down pretty well. Being this will be my first run in years with soil, I'd like to keep it fair by having the guidance of some of the great soil growers on this forum.
I have about 30-45 days before this comparison goes underway and it will all be performed using clones and started on the same day. I may pick up clones from a dispensary, but more than likely it will be the Fucking Incredible strain used in this comparison.
Be my mentor, I've got 4-6 weeks to procure my equipment, debate the best methods and plan a course of action.
Thanks for any help! (that goes to everyone).
And in the interest of not jacking this thread, here's a link to a new one just for this project....
https://www.rollitup.org/indoor-growing/282095-soil-vs-hydro-soil-experts.html
I just decided I'm going to split my current veg space (8'x3') into two sides and I'm going to grow side by side w/ 600w lamps. One side will be soil, one side will be hydro. As I'm no expert on organics or soil I'm hoping you can be my guide. I've been a hydro guy a long time and I've done 2 soil grows, but for this comparison I'm looking for assistance and some expertise to try to make it fair.
I'm hoping that you can help me out and while I don't know that it will be AN vs Foxfarms, I do know that it will be AN vs organic/soil and I want it to be fair. I've grown (too many times to count, sheesh, you'd think I could at least remember) numerous times w/ hydro using AN so I have it down pretty well. Being this will be my first run in years with soil, I'd like to keep it fair by having the guidance of some of the great soil growers on this forum.
I have about 30-45 days before this comparison goes underway and it will all be performed using clones and started on the same day. I may pick up clones from a dispensary, but more than likely it will be the Fucking Incredible strain used in this comparison.
Be my mentor, I've got 4-6 weeks to procure my equipment, debate the best methods and plan a course of action.
Thanks for any help! (that goes to everyone).
And in the interest of not jacking this thread, here's a link to a new one just for this project....
https://www.rollitup.org/indoor-growing/282095-soil-vs-hydro-soil-experts.html
RickWhite
Well-Known Member
JR Peters also has a professional line called Jack's professional. I started a thread on it if I can find it.
Anyway, the folks as JR Peters certainly have been in the business of making fertalizer a lot longer than any of the other guys and they are a lot bigger and have a lot more resources for R&D. They also make a hydroponic blend which I will be using from now on.
Using the 20-20-20 with a drip & Rocwool and Ionic with DWC, I'd have to say the Peters did better.
Anyway, the folks as JR Peters certainly have been in the business of making fertalizer a lot longer than any of the other guys and they are a lot bigger and have a lot more resources for R&D. They also make a hydroponic blend which I will be using from now on.
Using the 20-20-20 with a drip & Rocwool and Ionic with DWC, I'd have to say the Peters did better.
Wavels
Well-Known Member
I think you are referring to Jack's Classic.
This stuff is my preferred fertilizer.
I use it on not only my cannabis but on literally dozens of other types of plants that I have grown from seed over the years.
Veggies, flowers and herbs love this stuff.
I have been growing Cannabis for almost as long as UB and he most assuredly knows whereof he speaks!
He gives some of the best advice I have seen on any cannabis site.
