TheOrganic
Well-Known Member
That sand will help distribute the water in that MG organic nice job on first grow. Just make sure you you use good water. That distilled should be great!
A test in progress.... Miracle Grow soil vs. Fox Farms soil. Is MG really that bad?
- Thread starter jawbrodt
- Start date
assasinofyouth420
Well-Known Member
Some good lst but you need to get those lights closer.
bigv1976
Well-Known Member
Actually I would use tap water only for that grow seeing how you are using no nutes. That will help you get some sulphur, iron and copper to your plants.
jawbrodt
Well-Known Member
^They don't look too bad, but, I'd like to suggest a transplant. All that sand in there is creating a really dense growing medium, and it looks to be having issues already.(yellowing leaves, slow growth, etc) Although you'd think the drainage would be excellent, I'm betting that it stays wet for a long time, and the center probably stays damp, constantly, due to lack of aeration. Perlite is the way to go, my friend. Even road gravel, would be better than using sand. I used sand to get rid of fungus gnats, and trust me, it severely clogged up the upper portion of my soil. I didn't expect it either, but it happened. Transplant to a medium with excellent drainage, and you'll be surprised at the difference in growth, in two weeks. Drainage, is what is going to put the MG soil, on par with the FF soil, in this test.
Just trying to help ya out, man. Otherwise, you'll likely be struggling with deficiencies/problems, for the rest of your grow.
I also agree that the lights need repositioned. They should always be as close as possible, and focused on the main grow tip first, then work your way downwards, towards the base. You're doing pretty good for a first time, though. Good work.
Just trying to help ya out, man. Otherwise, you'll likely be struggling with deficiencies/problems, for the rest of your grow.
I also agree that the lights need repositioned. They should always be as close as possible, and focused on the main grow tip first, then work your way downwards, towards the base. You're doing pretty good for a first time, though. Good work.
reggaerican
Well-Known Member
i threw 2 plants out in my yard this season and the soil was real sandy (about 50%).. now i dont know if that had anything to do with there slow growth, but i think yes..
after harvest i pulled the stock and there was hardly no roots.. so i believe jaw might be right about the soil bieng to dence...
after harvest i pulled the stock and there was hardly no roots.. so i believe jaw might be right about the soil bieng to dence...
Jack in the Bud
Active Member
Morn'n Folks,
I've been following this thread for about a week now and have found it very interesting. I've been growing in the standard MG potting soil mix for over 6 years now and can relate to a lot of what's being said here.
I've been adding extra perlite and vermiculite to it for some time now. I haven't measured it exactly but I'm guessing some where in the neighboorhood of 10 to 15 %. My current thinking is that it could use a little more and next time I'm going to measure exactly and shoot for 20% (10% perlite and 10% vermiculite). I've found 4 cubic foot bags of each of those things at a local nursery for under $30 each. I'd stay a way from the perlite that MG sells because it's also treated with their nutrients and it makes the mix a little to hot for young plants.
I'd also stay a way from mixing sand into it because it does seem to negatively affect the drainage properties. I also once tried putting a layer of fine play ground sand on top the soil to control fungus gnats and didn't like that and won't ever do it again. It plugs up the top layer of soil and keeps it from breathing. Every week or so I like to "till" up the top 1/2 to 1" layer of soil on the pots where they've been compacted from watering. I've noticed that adding molasses (at 1 teaspoon/gallon) to the occasional watering tends to "glue" the surface of the soil together pretty good. I like to keep that scratched up.
Fungus Gnats...I can sympathise, because you do seem to get a free batch of them with every bag of MG. A few of them don't bother me but in the past they've gotten so thick I had them literally every where in the house (and I really hate it when one of them flies up your nose when you're sleeping). My solution is to start trapping them from the get go. At the very start of a grow I put out a half dozen or more of those yellow sticky traps on stakes stuck into the soil next to the plant. A couple of small bowls of water that's had a drop or two of dish detergent added to it also seems to be a pretty effective trap for them.
Around week 3 of vegging my current crop I noticed some thrip damage and sprayed once with a mix of 1 teaspoon of Malathion/gallon. It took care of the thrips completely and for a while I didn't see any more fungus gnats but here lately I've begun to see a couple more. Of course since spraying I've done some up canning and introduced some fresh potting mix into the space. Once I'm more than 2 or 3 weeks into flowering I don't like spraying anything on my plants but I'm not adverse to spraying the soil surface it's self as long as I'm not with in 3 weeks of harvest. And not just the soil surface but also around the drain holes at the base of the containers because from observation it seems I've seen the fungus gnats coming out of there also.
Seed Starting... I've never done any cloning and always start each crop from seed. I think the MG is a little to hot for best starting seeds in. While it can be done I've come to prefer starting them in "Jiffy" organic seed starting mix. I soak the seeds between wet paper towels until they just split open and begin to show root and then transfer them to a 9 oz. plastic cup full of the Jiffy mix. They stay in that (under 20/4) for about two weeks (or until the lower leaves start to show yellowing from lack of nitrogen) and then get up canned to a one gallon pot with the MG mix (that's had extra perlite/vermiculite added). At that point the light goes to 18/6. I usually veg for 60 days before switching to 12/12. Usually with in 10 days of that I've got everything sexed and the males culled out. At that point the remaining females get up canned to bigger pots. By day 140 (from seed in dirt) the harvest is usually completed.
This time around I've been feeding with "Jack's Clasic" (20-20-20) at a rate of 1/4 teaspoon/gallon pretty much every time I've watered since week 4. Before that it was just straight water (once early on with a little Super Thrive added). About every 4th watering they get some molasses. I always water until it runs out the bottom of the pot good. I've drilled a lot of extra drain holes in the containers and have them blocked up a 1/2" off of a slightly sloped surface that drains to a catch basin. My well water is horrible so I only use rain water run off from the roof that I've rigged up to catch. It's around day 100 of the grow cycle and all the girls sure seem to be happy with this program so far.
As some one else mentioned earlier in the thread I also never go any where near a cannabis specific store. Nor do I order any thing on line from any of them. Everything I use comes from Home Depot (casa dePOT), Ace Hardware, WallyMart or one of the local commercial greenhouse/nursery places.
Jack
I've been following this thread for about a week now and have found it very interesting. I've been growing in the standard MG potting soil mix for over 6 years now and can relate to a lot of what's being said here.
I've been adding extra perlite and vermiculite to it for some time now. I haven't measured it exactly but I'm guessing some where in the neighboorhood of 10 to 15 %. My current thinking is that it could use a little more and next time I'm going to measure exactly and shoot for 20% (10% perlite and 10% vermiculite). I've found 4 cubic foot bags of each of those things at a local nursery for under $30 each. I'd stay a way from the perlite that MG sells because it's also treated with their nutrients and it makes the mix a little to hot for young plants.
I'd also stay a way from mixing sand into it because it does seem to negatively affect the drainage properties. I also once tried putting a layer of fine play ground sand on top the soil to control fungus gnats and didn't like that and won't ever do it again. It plugs up the top layer of soil and keeps it from breathing. Every week or so I like to "till" up the top 1/2 to 1" layer of soil on the pots where they've been compacted from watering. I've noticed that adding molasses (at 1 teaspoon/gallon) to the occasional watering tends to "glue" the surface of the soil together pretty good. I like to keep that scratched up.
Fungus Gnats...I can sympathise, because you do seem to get a free batch of them with every bag of MG. A few of them don't bother me but in the past they've gotten so thick I had them literally every where in the house (and I really hate it when one of them flies up your nose when you're sleeping). My solution is to start trapping them from the get go. At the very start of a grow I put out a half dozen or more of those yellow sticky traps on stakes stuck into the soil next to the plant. A couple of small bowls of water that's had a drop or two of dish detergent added to it also seems to be a pretty effective trap for them.
Around week 3 of vegging my current crop I noticed some thrip damage and sprayed once with a mix of 1 teaspoon of Malathion/gallon. It took care of the thrips completely and for a while I didn't see any more fungus gnats but here lately I've begun to see a couple more. Of course since spraying I've done some up canning and introduced some fresh potting mix into the space. Once I'm more than 2 or 3 weeks into flowering I don't like spraying anything on my plants but I'm not adverse to spraying the soil surface it's self as long as I'm not with in 3 weeks of harvest. And not just the soil surface but also around the drain holes at the base of the containers because from observation it seems I've seen the fungus gnats coming out of there also.
Seed Starting... I've never done any cloning and always start each crop from seed. I think the MG is a little to hot for best starting seeds in. While it can be done I've come to prefer starting them in "Jiffy" organic seed starting mix. I soak the seeds between wet paper towels until they just split open and begin to show root and then transfer them to a 9 oz. plastic cup full of the Jiffy mix. They stay in that (under 20/4) for about two weeks (or until the lower leaves start to show yellowing from lack of nitrogen) and then get up canned to a one gallon pot with the MG mix (that's had extra perlite/vermiculite added). At that point the light goes to 18/6. I usually veg for 60 days before switching to 12/12. Usually with in 10 days of that I've got everything sexed and the males culled out. At that point the remaining females get up canned to bigger pots. By day 140 (from seed in dirt) the harvest is usually completed.
This time around I've been feeding with "Jack's Clasic" (20-20-20) at a rate of 1/4 teaspoon/gallon pretty much every time I've watered since week 4. Before that it was just straight water (once early on with a little Super Thrive added). About every 4th watering they get some molasses. I always water until it runs out the bottom of the pot good. I've drilled a lot of extra drain holes in the containers and have them blocked up a 1/2" off of a slightly sloped surface that drains to a catch basin. My well water is horrible so I only use rain water run off from the roof that I've rigged up to catch. It's around day 100 of the grow cycle and all the girls sure seem to be happy with this program so far.
As some one else mentioned earlier in the thread I also never go any where near a cannabis specific store. Nor do I order any thing on line from any of them. Everything I use comes from Home Depot (casa dePOT), Ace Hardware, WallyMart or one of the local commercial greenhouse/nursery places.
Jack
jawbrodt
Well-Known Member
^Excellent post Jack, and welcome to the thread. I must admit, I'm a bit jealous of your runoff setup. Very nice. I've been wracking my brain, trying to come up with an easy way to do the same with my own room, but it's tough, to say the least. I'll come up with somethinmg, eventually.lol Ya know, you mentioned something else that I've been wanting to test....the MG perlite. I've been thinking about doing another test, this time, with MG soil, MG perlite, and MG nutes. The only other nute I'd be using, would be Calmag Plus, because I believe MG to be somewhat lacking the appropriate levels of those.(Ca and Mg) Hmm...... *scratches chin*
Anyway,...stay tuned, they're really starting to take off now. More pics, coming soon.
I must admit, I'm a bit jealous of your runoff setup. Very nice. I've been wracking my brain, trying to come up with an easy way to do the same with my own room, but it's tough, to say the least. I'll come up with somethinmg, eventually.lol Ya know, you mentioned something else that I've been wanting to test....the MG perlite. I've been thinking about doing another test, this time, with MG soil, MG perlite, and MG nutes. The only other nute I'd be using, would be Calmag Plus, because I believe MG to be somewhat lacking the appropriate levels of those.(Ca and Mg) Hmm...... *scratches chin*Anyway,...stay tuned, they're really starting to take off now. More pics, coming soon.
+rep for suky MG
NewClosetGrower
Well-Known Member
hey man, awesome thread your doing!!...i started my first grow in FFOF about a month ago and i mixed it with a whole bag of MG perlite. i forgot the amount but it was like 3 parts soil 1 part fert. and the only nutrients im giving it is the MG all purpose plant food...they were very slow at the beginning, but im sure i was over watering and i accidently foilage fed them with nutes at like 4 days old...they took about 2 weeks to recover, and just got there first real feeding about a week ago and have taken off! the mg perlite says it has something in it that is basically time release, i doubt that had anything to do with the stunting but you never know, i posted a thread once asking about it and a lot of people us the mg perlite and never had any problems...anyway good luck man, ill be watching
^Excellent post Jack, and welcome to the thread.
Anyway,...stay tuned, they're really starting to take off now. More pics, coming soon.
NewClosetGrower
Well-Known Member
+ rep for small dick yay!!!! you should see me spin....
TheOrganic
Well-Known Member
I stand corrected on mixing sand In soil. I imagine they already put some sand in soils anyway.
NewClosetGrower
Well-Known Member
Afghani420
Member
Thanks T.O. my only regrets are not researching more before I began. If I knew then what I know now, there would have been definetly a few things I'd have done different early on. I'm trying to make te best of this right now and I'm praying that one of them is female!
Afghani420
Member
I currently have the tops of each plant 3" away from the bulbs. Should I bring it in closer? I monitor the distance daily and adjust as needed. Thanks!
ink the world
Well-Known Member
Great post, love your approach, +rep.
Ive used MG soils on and off for years. A nice little grow shop opened up literally right around the corner from my place, so I went in and grabbed a bag of Foxfarm Ocean Forest, Ive wanted to try it but wasnt about to drive 2 hours to get some (that was the closest I could find until the new place opened.
I gotta say the OF is pretty pricey, like 3 times the price I pay for MG....in the long run if its as good as some say I dont mind the price. If I retain simplicity (I have a perpetual grow, its enough work without a nute schedules etc.) and get higher yields and so forth its worth a little extra $ up front.
I have some seedlings and clones that Ive rooted all in the OF, the seedlings are at 35 days and are pretty happy. I just had to give them some Alaskan Fish Emulsions, they were just starting to get some yellowing.
So far im pretty happy w/ the OF, my flowering clones seem to be a little ahead of where they would be w/ the MG....don now if its just me or now, i should have gone head to head like you.
No gnats in my 2 bags of OF so far. That alone is worth the price, Im sick of the gnats and having to get rid of them constantly w/ MG soils.
Ive used MG soils on and off for years. A nice little grow shop opened up literally right around the corner from my place, so I went in and grabbed a bag of Foxfarm Ocean Forest, Ive wanted to try it but wasnt about to drive 2 hours to get some (that was the closest I could find until the new place opened.
I gotta say the OF is pretty pricey, like 3 times the price I pay for MG....in the long run if its as good as some say I dont mind the price. If I retain simplicity (I have a perpetual grow, its enough work without a nute schedules etc.) and get higher yields and so forth its worth a little extra $ up front.
I have some seedlings and clones that Ive rooted all in the OF, the seedlings are at 35 days and are pretty happy. I just had to give them some Alaskan Fish Emulsions, they were just starting to get some yellowing.
So far im pretty happy w/ the OF, my flowering clones seem to be a little ahead of where they would be w/ the MG....don now if its just me or now, i should have gone head to head like you.
No gnats in my 2 bags of OF so far. That alone is worth the price, Im sick of the gnats and having to get rid of them constantly w/ MG soils.
Afghani420
Member
I switched from bottled spring water to bottled distilled a week or so ago. If I run tap water I need to let it sit for 3 days correct? What are the chances that I might lockout my root system? I'm probably going to pick up some Iguana Juice this weekend when I get paid... the only thing making me hesitate is that I don't know their sexes yet so I don't want to blow $50+ bucks on dude plants lol.
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