a god is as likely as a unicorn.

Chief Walkin Eagle

Well-Known Member
Yes, those demons you have experienced do seem pretty evil, I wonder why they are attracted to you, or why you are subconsciously attracted to them, I dont see anything good coming from it. Perhaps you need to do some more self searching and find the inner conflict that guides you to these hectic beings. Or keep favoring the idea that these are apart of your imagination and say nothing about reality because that brings you comfort. And keep pretending that is impossible to know 'god' without the scientific process.
 

Seedling

Well-Known Member
I find it extremely humorous when listening to someone try to describe what god is...lol, i want to shout out "dude, stop making shit up!"
Everything is made up. We make it up as we go.

God is a spirit that resides in people that believe. This can have positive real world results. People believe, they feel better about having god in their heart and soul, and in turn makes their life better in the real world. They may feel good about themselves and help other people in need, as churches often do.

If you want to work on your body you go to a gym.
If you want to work on your mind you go to school.
If you want to work on your spirit you go to a church.
 

Chief Walkin Eagle

Well-Known Member
I disagree with the last one, even Jesus said that the body is the temple. You are constantly in gods house, no matter where you are, you are gods house.
 

Seedling

Well-Known Member
I disagree with the last one, even Jesus said that the body is the temple. You are constantly in gods house, no matter where you are, you are gods house.
Yeah, you can get home schooled too, and you can use the twist-o-flex in your living room, but if you want professional help you go to those places.
 

Chief Walkin Eagle

Well-Known Member
Yeah, you can get home schooled too, and you can use the twist-o-flex in your living room, but if you want professional help you go to those places.
If you are religious, I guess, but those that think theres truth in everything would rather educate themselves on what 'god' is. I think I am much more of a man of god than a priest is.
 

Zaehet Strife

Well-Known Member
Yes, those demons you have experienced do seem pretty evil, I wonder why they are attracted to you, or why you are subconsciously attracted to them, I dont see anything good coming from it. Perhaps you need to do some more self searching and find the inner conflict that guides you to these hectic beings. Or keep favoring the idea that these are apart of your imagination and say nothing about reality because that brings you comfort. And keep pretending that is impossible to know 'god' without the scientific process.
Yet again, you fail to realize the implications of what you, yourself are saying.


Unless you can accept the fact that your ideas about reality, existence, and death have the possibility of being wrong, then we have nothing else further that need be discussed.

You know you are right, and everyone else is wrong unless they agree with your ideas.

I am merely saying... bro, dude, you could be wrong...lol, you know that right?

And the only way you reply to that is... "La, la, la, i can't heeearr yoouuu!!"

It's funny, how our ideas of reality, existence and death all correlate within the grounds of what we desire isn't it?
 

Chief Walkin Eagle

Well-Known Member
Yet again, you fail to realize the implications of what you, yourself are saying.


Unless you can accept the fact that your ideas about reality, existence, and death have the possibility of being wrong, then we have nothing else further that need be discussed.

You know you are right, and everyone else is wrong unless they agree with your ideas.

I am merely saying... bro, dude, you could be wrong...lol, you know that right?

And the only way you reply to that is... "La, la, la, i can't heeearr yoouuu!!"

It's funny, how our ideas of reality, existence and death all correlate within the grounds of what we desire isn't it?
Sure, some things could be wrong. The main things I am confident in though like god, souls, the afterlife. To say that no one knows weather souls or god exists is most definitely a lie, dont you agree? How could you possible know such a thing? Why is this an exception to your fundamental rule of not knowing? Because of science? lol! You said so yourself that even if god were to be proven with evidence, you still wouldnt believe because this all could be a illusion, simulation, or a dream. To me, that paints a picture of someone saying "Lalala I cant hear you!"
 

Zaehet Strife

Well-Known Member
Things that we can know of with any degree of certainty are things we can sense, things we can measure... so no, no one in the history of the human animal has come forth with such a degree of evidence or proof readily available to show everyone in the world that souls exist... which is why there is still a debate...

Regardless of your tact to avoid confronting the truth about certainty, it makes no difference.

You could still, be wrong... just as i could be wrong about my beliefs about reality, existence and death.

This is why we all poke fun at you when you claim certainty that god exists, and aliens etc. etc. because no matter how hard you tell yourself or how hard you try, you still cant be certain, because you have no proof... all you have to base these ideas on are emotions and hearsay.

The truth is, deep down, you really aren't sure whether or not god exists... but, you sure as hell won't admit that to yourself... then you sure as hell aren't going to admit it to anybody else.
 

Chief Walkin Eagle

Well-Known Member
See, this is the conflict that is at the base of your beliefs, this is why you here, this is why you lashed out at me when I pointed it out to you. Admitting that if god/souls exist, it might be possible to know them through consistent experience, will only make you grow as a person and you will be humbled. Lets say god/souls exist, but its impossible to experience those things even if they exist? Dont you see how silly that sounds? That is just pure stubbornness. You WANT no one to know, because that makes you more comfortable with your greatest fear. You ignore all mystical, yet real, explanations of dreams, lucid dreams, astral projection, OBE's and NDE's, ghostly and ET encounters, because it makes you more comfortable to favor the more simple side of the argument, that is all only in our heads. Even though theres many people out there who shared the same psychedelic trip and communicated with the same magical being, one of these experiences was even under the observation of science. People astral project and visit friends and are very accurate on describing what their friends were doing at the time, and they meet other astral travelers and later confirm in the physical world that they both met each other. This information scares you because it threatens your belief system that you are so passionate about. To this you will say "No matter what experience, no matter how consistent, they still dont know, this could be an illusion!" <-- Does that fall under special pleading? I could be wrong. It is kinda sad though. That even if 'god' made his presence known somehow, you still wouldnt believe based on the excuse of life being an illusion or simulation. I think you've learned all that you can learn, Z, unless you rid yourself of this psychological loophole you have made for yourself.
 

tyler.durden

Well-Known Member
See, this is the conflict that is at the base of your beliefs, this is why you here, this is why you lashed out at me when I pointed it out to you. Admitting that if god/souls exist, it might be possible to know them through consistent experience, will only make you grow as a person and you will be humbled. Lets say god/souls exist, but its impossible to experience those things even if they exist? Dont you see how silly that sounds? That is just pure stubbornness. You WANT no one to know, because that makes you more comfortable with your greatest fear. You ignore all mystical, yet real, explanations of dreams, lucid dreams, astral projection, OBE's and NDE's, ghostly and ET encounters, because it makes you more comfortable to favor the more simple side of the argument, that is all only in our heads. Even though theres many people out there who shared the same psychedelic trip and communicated with the same magical being, one of these experiences was even under the observation of science. People astral project and visit friends and are very accurate on describing what their friends were doing at the time, and they meet other astral travelers and later confirm in the physical world that they both met each other. This information scares you because it threatens your belief system that you are so passionate about. To this you will say "No matter what experience, no matter how consistent, they still dont know, this could be an illusion!" <-- Does that fall under special pleading? I could be wrong. It is kinda sad though. That even if 'god' made his presence known somehow, you still wouldnt believe based on the excuse of life being an illusion or simulation. I think you've learned all that you can learn, Z, unless you rid yourself of this psychological loophole you have made for yourself.
Links from a credible source for the bolded, please...
 

Zaehet Strife

Well-Known Member
You talk as if you think i have never tried to seek enlightenment, as if i haven't tried with all of everything i am to experience god. Months of solitude, months of meditation, countless days spent in thought and in prayer. I probably know more about every cultures religion than you could even imagine, and i have tried many different ways to assert my faith in the supernatural. I have tried more ways than you could ever think of to achieve this certain attainment of a knowledge of god, or reality, existence and death.

You misunderstand. I've tried faith for years, it made me feel great. But the truth kept slowly crawling back to me, every single time i found a belief system i could find comfort in, the doubt started to creep in. The part of me that dearly relies on honesty within myself will not allow me to give myself the comforts of false truths or certainties in the absence of them.

Yes, i have had an experience that many would call "enlightenment" but you must understand, and i just got done explaining this to Neer. That the experience of enlightenment is just that, an experience. That once we give it meaning we change it from what it was, an unexplainable overpowering experience... into exactly what we want it to be, into exactly what we perceive it to be (which is exactly what it is not). When we do this, we change that experience into what we want instead of leaving it as it is.

Depending on what culture we were brought up in, dictates how we describe and define our enlightenment. Almost everyone is different, but only because of the meanings we give it. If we are to leave it as it is, we understand that we don't really know what the fuck just happened when we experienced it, but all we can know is that it fucking happened, and it was super crazy. But as soon as you try to define it, you change it.

Yet i still assert the fact that no matter how hard you try, or how much dmt or mushrooms you ingest, no matter how much faith you have... you still cannot be certain whether or not your (mine, and everyone's) beliefs about what reality really is, existence, and death are true, or false.

You do know that it is possible to think that god is real, and live your life as if it is real, while still being courageous enough to accept the fact that you do not know right?

All of us fallible human animals could be wrong, or right about our beliefs. Your certainty in god, only points out your desperation of it's existence.

I merely have uncertainties, because i understand that my beliefs have the possibility of being wrong. You are too scared to accept that fact.
 

Chief Walkin Eagle

Well-Known Member
Links from a credible source for the bolded, please...
Only one was under the observation of science, because its probably the only scientific study of such things. It was Dr. Strassman who studied DMT. It may or may not be in the documentary The Spirit Molecule, I dont know, definitely in the book though. I think this was the experiment that ended his study because he was too spooked to continue, I also could be wrong about that. Too lazy to find links though, Im watching the season premier of one of my favorite TV shows. I heard it from Joe Rogan who hosted the The Spirit Molecule documentary, he also talked about it on his podcast.
 

Chief Walkin Eagle

Well-Known Member
You talk as if you think i have never tried to seek enlightenment, as if i haven't tried with all of everything i am to experience god. Months of solitude, months of meditation, countless days spent in thought and in prayer. I probably know more about every cultures religion than you could even imagine, and i have tried many different ways to assert my faith in the supernatural. I have tried more ways than you could ever think of to achieve this certain attainment of a knowledge of god, or reality, existence and death.

You misunderstand. I've tried faith for years, it made me feel great. But the truth kept slowly crawling back to me, every single time i found a belief system i could find comfort in, the doubt started to creep in. The part of me that dearly relies on honesty within myself will not allow me to give myself the comforts of false truths or certainties in the absence of them.

Yes, i have had an experience that many would call "enlightenment" but you must understand, and i just got done explaining this to Neer. That the experience of enlightenment is just that, an experience. That once we give it meaning we change it from what it was, an unexplainable overpowering experience... into exactly what we want it to be, into exactly what we perceive it to be (which is exactly what it is not). When we do this, we change that experience into what we want instead of leaving it as it is.

Depending on what culture we were brought up in, dictates how we describe and define our enlightenment. Almost everyone is different, but only because of the meanings we give it. If we are to leave it as it is, we understand that we don't really know what the fuck just happened when we experienced it, but all we can know is that it fucking happened, and it was super crazy. But as soon as you try to define it, you change it.

Yet i still assert the fact that no matter how hard you try, or how much dmt or mushrooms you ingest, no matter how much faith you have... you still cannot be certain whether or not your (mine, and everyone's) beliefs about what reality really is, existence, and death are true, or false.

All of us fallible human animals could be wrong, or right about our beliefs. Your certainty in god, only points out your desperation of it's existence.

I merely have uncertainties, because i understand that my beliefs have the possibility of being wrong. You are too scared to accept that fact.
Thats just proving my point even more. You were so desperate for truth, you looked in every EXTERNAL nook and cranny. Looked at many religions and beliefs at face value and were not satisfied with any of them (Judging by your shallow descriptions of those beliefs that I previously seen from you, I doubt you know much about them). You were obsessed with what the world has to offer, and payed little attention to what you had to offer yourself, because you are your world, your reality is subjective because you only see from one perspective, like everyone else does, everyone is experiencing reality subjectively.

It is you who was (and perhaps still is) desperate. I was never desperate through the evolution of my beliefs. Was a Christian till the age of 11 or 12. Thought "Jesus is cool, I better be cool so Jesus likes me, but w.e". I didnt put much importance on it at all and kept being a kid. Then I seen the hateful side of Christianity and thought "Theres a good chance that god doesnt exist, but w.e", didnt care too much about that either. Then as I matured I started seeing the amazing beauty and complexities and mysteries in the world and thought theres a good chance that god does exist. Though it had a little more importance than my previous beliefs, it was not something that I cared to argue about. I started getting more passionate about such things by listening to Joe Rogan youtube videos and podcasts. Shortly after that I met my infamous spiritual friend that I continue to have spiritual experiences with.

I was not looking for truth, I let truth come to me. I felt no need to fill this whole of uncertainty, the whole filled itself. You dont know if I dont know, Z, and I will never get tired of explaining this to you lol.
 

timeout

Well-Known Member
"An historical" is traditional, a remnant from when an "h" was pronounced in some situations as an "i".
 

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
Thats just proving my point even more. You were so desperate for truth, you looked in every EXTERNAL nook and cranny. Looked at many religions and beliefs at face value and were not satisfied with any of them (Judging by your shallow descriptions of those beliefs that I previously seen from you, I doubt you know much about them). You were obsessed with what the world has to offer, and payed little attention to what you had to offer yourself, because you are your world, your reality is subjective because you only see from one perspective, like everyone else does, everyone is experiencing reality subjectively.

It is you who was (and perhaps still is) desperate. I was never desperate through the evolution of my beliefs. Was a Christian till the age of 11 or 12. Thought "Jesus is cool, I better be cool so Jesus likes me, but w.e". I didnt put much importance on it at all and kept being a kid. Then I seen the hateful side of Christianity and thought "Theres a good chance that god doesnt exist, but w.e", didnt care too much about that either. Then as I matured I started seeing the amazing beauty and complexities and mysteries in the world and thought theres a good chance that god does exist. Though it had a little more importance than my previous beliefs, it was not something that I cared to argue about. I started getting more passionate about such things by listening to Joe Rogan youtube videos and podcasts. Shortly after that I met my infamous spiritual friend that I continue to have spiritual experiences with.

I was not looking for truth, I let truth come to me. I felt no need to fill this whole of uncertainty, the whole filled itself. You dont know if I dont know, Z, and I will never get tired of explaining this to you lol.
Chief, my quest was different from Zaehets, but not very.
I would have discarded the suggestion to look inside myself for the godpowerprinciple ... as laughable. When I've explored my deeper parts, the one impression that stays with me is a tendency toward (and capacity for) bottomless self-deception.

I think the real difference between you and me is that I do not trust the plates of noise my inners serve up for me. I have reason to mistrust mine. cn
 

Zaehet Strife

Well-Known Member
Chief, my quest was different from Zaehets, but not very.
I would have discarded the suggestion to look inside myself for the godpowerprinciple ... as laughable. When I've explored my deeper parts, the one impression that stays with me is a tendency toward (and capacity for) bottomless self-deception.

I think the real difference between you and me is that I do not trust the plates of noise my inners serve up for me. I have reason to mistrust mine. cn
I couldn't have said it any better myself even if i had tried.
 

Shannon Alexander

Well-Known Member
Can you please provide more evidence that you're truly posting this? Not saying i don't believe you but i'd rather wait till science proves you truly are. ;) lol
Science can never prove that anything is real... what is to say that everything isn't part of an elaborate fabricated reality inside my head... you can't prove to me that I'm not the only being in existence...
 

Zaehet Strife

Well-Known Member
Science can never prove that anything is real... what is to say that everything isn't part of an elaborate fabricated reality inside my head... you can't prove to me that I'm not the only being in existence...
You are absolutely right. Science can prove what is real within the limits of the reality we are experiencing right now, yet just as, reality could be illusion, simulation or a dream, and not real at all.
 
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