A Bored Electrician to Answer Your Questions

LeeroySlim said:

i live on a really remote rural property, im currently using about 2 1000watt and 6 600watt lights, i am running them from diff power outlets through the house. if i turn on another large appliance in the house the electricity cuts out no matter what power piont i used. this doesnt seem like a lot of wattage for a 2 beroom house to be allocated to. i dont know much about electricity but basically my question is i want to add a few more 1000watt lights,is there anything i can do to increase the available power? or is a diesel generator my best option?

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Danielsgb said:

While ALL baked and following a pretty new Honda for way too far I noticed it had a LED third brake light that would be perfect for the door. I went to Radio Shack and got lights that I think might work. I was on my way to my last stop at the Rescue Mission to get the power adapter. I passed a salvage yard and thought "Fuck it,might as well check". The guy said to go look and I asked the price range he said $35-50. he told me an area to check out and I found one on a Hyundai Tiburon. I went back to see a price. He said $25 and gave me a screwdriver and a wire cutter. I had to cut the fiberglass apart to get to the screws. It would have been much easier with the right socket set. Oh, well. I won and took the tools back. He saw what I had and said $10. Gotta love that. Now I just have to figure out if I can use it. It's 12V 3.5W. Could I use it and a different green light? I could ditch the green and just go with this if it's possible. The other lights I got are 272-0712 and 272-0708View attachment 923868
another ? for ya.
I have a 12V 1.25A power adapter and wanted to make sure I can use it to run two 120mm comp fans. they are 12V .6A (both the same fans) That will be fine right? Only.05A over so it's OK right? Thanks again
Daniels

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HornedFishy said:

Sorry if this has been asked before. This thread is huge and I couldn't find it. If built correctly, is this safe? http://www.hydroponics.net/learn/grow-light-controller.asp Thanks.

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IAm5toned said:

the power supply for your fans, is big enough to make them run, but is not big enough to make it last.... power supplies have to be rated @ 120% of the required load, minimum. the one you have, will work, but it wont last very long. might last weeks or months, hard to tell. ambeint temps have alot to do with it. the higher the temp, the shorter the power supply life. (.6 x 2= 1.2 x 120%= 1.44 amps) if you got a 12v supply that was good for 1.75 amps or 20 watts or so, you could run both the fans and the led's on it with no issue whatsover.
as far as the LED's go, shit man, a lamp is a lamp... it doesnt matter if it came out of a car, a boat, a robot, top of a cell phone tower automotive LED's are great, they last a long time. i just didnt think you would be able to find some for so cheap

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HornedFishy said:

*phew* I had been running two of these for a while and your answer worried me at first, but it looks like I did exactly what you suggested and replaced the relay with a contactor. Sweet, thanks.

EDIT: While I have the privilege of talking to an electrician I guess ill ask my other question. Are wire nuts the best/safest way to secure two wires? Especially if it has to be able to be removed. How much voltage and amperage can they be used with? Are there specifications for different types of nuts? Thanks in advance.

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IAm5toned said:

coolness. let me know if u need any help

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Murfy said:

hey stoned i've got some questions concerning this controller-
1: so concerning the controller, to run more lights, just add another contactor with the coil wired to the original control(110V to timer) wire, to make say a 12 light controller, i have (2)1000,and (4) 400 so 36 amps, but i also want to run fans and things as well, which would put me over the 40 amps, but then i would need bigger wire and breakers, i just answered my own question, i think -so i could wire this up 220V with 14-2 but i would only have 15 amps per line so even though the contactor is 40A i would only be able to carry 30A or 3 lights(1000W)


2: i have a remote location(outside) that i want too make disconnectable, i am going to run the big gray wire like runs into the box from the meter OUT of the main to a PLUG on the side of my house and then i was gonna use triplex?(nonsheathed 3 wire like what runs from the street) sheathed in sump pump hose to make a giant extension cord (permanently attached to grow) in order to achieve 100 amp service in the grow ( i have this material on hand, which is why i am using it if it's overkill)- anyway i can't find a plug that is rated for more than 50A, and was wondering if a four wire 50A plug would handle the 85A that i could come close too sometimes(air conditioner), also how does the rest of this setup sound?

3: so i like the idea of being able to use 14G wire( it's already installed, and i don't have the money for new 12-2), could i use 220V with my already installed 14-2w/ground to run my lights, and what if i just wired regular sockets for the 220V (i don't have the money for upgrade power cords) or should i use the 220V plugs(one prong horizontal) repair ends to convert the 110V cables i have and buy the corresponding outlet ( my ballasts are 110/220 convertible and multi tap)

thanks stoned

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IAm5toned said:

well the way it works is for any equipment that is to be energized for a period greater than 6 hours shall be rated @ 120% of the maximum ampacity... 6 hours or greater of operation is considered a continuous duty cycle, so this is done to protect the thermal element inside the breaker/fuse. not only can it cause premature tripping or nuiscance tripping, but it can also fuse/weld the breaker shut and cause a failure to trip in a short circuit condition., if you run it @ its maximum rated load with a continuous duty cycle, especially over extended periods of time. the danger is not on the first run, but maybe on the 5th.... by rating your breakers @ 80%, you prevent that.
with a 100 amp breaker, just because the numbers are simple to demonstrate-

100 amp breaker = 100% load = 100 amp

80% load = 80 amps.

80 amps x 120% = 100 amps

you can see you the 120% works now. by rating your breakers @ 80%, your rating your equipment for 120% ampacity, as required by code
multiplying the max amperage by .8 on a breaker, gives you the exact number of amps you can safely run. or watts. the equation works either way. i always use amps myself just because thats just easier for me, ive been doing it long enough i tend to have all the wattages memorized anyway...

so to size a breaker for a grow op- multiply the max wattage of all connected equipment by 120%. then convert the wattage into amperage by dividing by the voltage.

heres an example: (im ust inventing the wattages, bear with me if there not dead on)

3 600 hid lights. max input power = 660w per ballast.
2 fans 45w each
2 pumps, 75w each
timer/contacter 20w

660 x 3
45 x 2
75 x 2
+ 20
2240w
x 120%
2688w

2688w/240v= 11.2 amps @ 240v. you always round up to the nearest size so for our examples sake it would be a 15 amp breaker.

to find what you can run on an existing breaker-

multiply the amperage by the voltage by 80%

20 amp breaker, @ 120v... how many lamps can i run on it??

20 x 120 x 80% = 1920w of lighting goodness for your baby girls.

1920w x 120% = 19.2 (always round up, remember?? so its 20 amps.)

and thats how it works. for any power equation.

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IAm5toned said:

any HID lamp requires a ballast. the ballasts power factor will tell you what wattage it pulls in addition to the lamp. thats right, a ballast also consumes electrical energy. you multiply the power factor by the lamp wattage to get the maximum input power. sometimes the ballast manufacturer is nice and on the nameplate rating of theballast they will put the maximum input power. this is what the ballast lamp combo consumes. sometimes it is in amps,and sometimes it is in watts. sometimes its not there at all, and all there is is an efficincy rating/power factor.

for examples sake, lets pretend the maximum input power of your light fixture is 1075 watts.

1075w @ 120vac = 8.96 amps
8.96 amps @ 120vac x 120% (continuous duty cycle demand factor) = 10.76 amps.
1075w @ 240vac = 4.48 amps
4.48 amps @ 240vac x 120% (continuous duty cycle demand factor) = 5.38 amps

note how the wattage never changes in relation to the voltage, but the amperage is inversely proportionate to the voltage. the higher the voltage, the lower the amperage. the lower the voltage, the higher the amperage.......

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common continuous duty grow operation wattages based on voltage, with breaker and wire sizes. all wire sizes are based on thwn-2/thhn Cu conductors with a max run of 300'

• 15 amp breaker @ 120v = 1440w(12 amps actual) max = #14 awg Cu wire, min
• 20 amp breaker @ 120v = 1920w(16 amps actual) max = #12 awg Cu wire, min
• 30 amp breaker @ 120v = 2880w(24 amps actual) max = #10 awg Cu wire, min
• 40 amp breaker @ 120v = 3840w(32 amps actual) max = #8 awg Cu wire, min
• 60 amp breaker @ 120v = 5760w(48 amps actual) max = #6 awg Cu wire, min
• 100 amp breaker @ 120v = 9600w(80 amps actual) max = #3 awg Cu wire, min

• 15 amp breaker @ 240v = 2880w(12 amps actual) max = #14 awg Cu wire, min
• 20 amp breaker @ 240v = 3840w(16 amps actual) max = #12 awg Cu wire, min
• 30 amp breaker @ 240v = 5760w(24 amps actual) max = #10 awg Cu wire, min
• 40 amp breaker @ 240v = 7680w(32 amps actual) max = #8 awg Cu wire, min
• 60 amp breaker @ 240v = 11520w(48 amps actual) max = #6 awg Cu wire, min
• 100 amp breaker @ 240v= 19200w(80 amps actual) max = #3 awg Cu wire, min

2.

absolutely not... you can never for any reason, exceed the ampacity of a device, unless you want to start a fire. the rating of a device is how many amps the device can allow to pass through without heating up and burning. however, now by using the chart above, you may find that if your running 240v, you might not need as many amps as you think, to run what you want. hopefully not, because if not your going to have to find a subpanel and a main breaker and then some 50 amp breakers and more outlets, to split the load up. hate to say it, but you cant fuck around when dealing with larger electrical loads, if your engineering is not spot on, your shit will burn.


3.

i answered the question about the wire size already above, just not directly. look at the chart, it really is sticky worthy
but as far as the receptacle goes, ill tell you right now you should not run 240v through a 120v outlet and cord. i didnt say it wouldnt work just fine... but i cant tell you to do it because that is illegal as fuck, and here's why:
its all good you wired up the 240v to the 120v receptacle, as long as you never make the mistake of seeing a 120v cord plugged into a 120v receptacle, and forget that its 240v, and plug something else (a 120v device, like a fan or something) in it, then you get to watch whatever you just plugged in start burning.... its very easy to forget that one 'special outlet', and thats what gets people hurt. like i said, didnt say it wouldnt work just fine though.


well i hope that is enough info to help you out and resolve your questions. sorry about all the math, but hey, seriously, thats what dealing with electricity is all about. lots of math.... and it has to be right.


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LeeroySlim said:

hey mate just 1 last question, i have 20amps allocated to my electric hot water system can i some how disconect the hot water and use that as available amps for my lights if i hired an electrican to do this for me? sorry if it seems like a stupid question i dont no much about the electric side of things.

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Murfy said:

cool-
o.k. 5toned you've taught me alot, but i still have some questions, and the math is good keep it coming, i should sit down one day and read this whole thread, i'm sure it's loaded with tech goodies
math-

2-1000w, 4-400w = 3600W / 240 = 15A X 120% = 18A is this correct, if it is cool that gets my amperage way down, i could split this into (2) 10 amp runs and use my 14G existing wiring?

then on the extension cord, do these wire types sound o.k.? and what type of plug could i use just too ensure that if i did ever need 80A i would be covered, having a hard time finding something, do they even make this part, the problem will be the air con and the fans as they are 120V, i may be able to wire the con 240V if it's compatible, have to check on that

and after thinking i over i will need a sub panel with breakers to safe up the plug won't i?

EDIT: another thing i was thinking over, how do you feel about using 2 homeruns on a breaker, say putting the (2) 10a-240v-14g onto one (1) 20A breaker

EDIT 2: i found pin and sleeve connectors rated for my needs, BUT, they are 400$ apiece (male and female) got any of these layin around?
EDIT 3: then i got to thinking about the triplex i want to use, i have one that is a quarter in on a tape so it's either 2 or 3, SOLID aluminum, your chart is for copper wire, are the ratings the same?
if this won't work i have what measures 3/8 7 strand aluminum so (00) i think, which should be overkill
thanks 5toned

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mygirls said:

can i run a 400wtt mh bulbs in a 1000wtt hps ballast none switchable..

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