5 x 5 light set up

Or_Gro said:

Nice flowereing spectrum, here’s a great one for both veg and flowering:

View attachment 4269457

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Yes, pure flowering spectrum. I've had this argument . . . er, conversation before. If you're going to have one good light, make it a flowering light.

Prawn Connery said:

Yes, pure flowering spectrum. I've had this argument . . . er, conversation before. If you're going to have one good light, make it a flowering light.

Click to expand...

Exactly!

Bout any light will veg...

hybridway2 said:

Read through the thread. These guys r giving u solid advice. Prawn usually does. He Helped me save a grow last yr.
I too am happy with my 14w led bulb for cloning. I use 2 over the 32 site Sleezy-Cloner in 35k. Yup, the lower k temps promote root growth in clones & seedlings.
I suspected this would happen when I first found out I was getting the 96's. That is that I am NOT having the usual difficulties I'm used to having under pure white LEDs. I know some of you folks have the necessary changes dialed in but I do not & am still having issues with yellowing leaves & sometimes much worse with certain strains under all white LED sources.
Mine are the prefabs from the comp. They draw 330w, each bar of 2. So 660w, x4,96's over a 5x5. There's some stray HPS on 1 side so I added a 100w Horizon strip light in 24k to the other side recently to sort've match it.
BTW. Strips will give you the most for your watt in veg. Allowed me to replace the 8 bulb, 4' T-5's using only 100w of 6k strips surprisingly enough.
Wouldn't be a bad idea to add a 4' Hortri PowerVeg Bulb here n there just to broaden the spectrum & toughen up the plants. They're a safe, easy way to add some low amounts of UV w/o worrying about anything.
Plants are a little crammed together for pics but are set to 5x5.
View attachment 4264840 View attachment 4264842 View attachment 4264843 View attachment 4264845
4, 96's over a 5x5 is pushing it but will work if theres cross lighting or shiny tent walls. 660w fir 4 of them will do a 4x4 nicely.
Running a x4 Board QB (90cri white) too on the other side. Was doing pretty well there then one day she's getting pale fast. Upping the base nutes a little gives tip burn & worse on some, 3-5ml/g Cal-Mag ain't helping much either. Nor has the separate Mag. Will be trying some BatGuano Tee stuff I use in veg hoping some poo N might help tonight. But not on all. Just one plant incase it goes sideways.
Hope this helps! GoodLuck!

Click to expand...

When ever I have such issues and don't know from what it is its because of the VPD. It's not for nothing called 'the hidden force affecting your plants". You have a hell lot of light in your room and I expect the humidity is partwise below 50%. Because we need higher ambient temps with LED because of less leaf temps we need also higher humidity for healthy plant growth. Is the humidity too low and the plants take up and evaporate more water they also take up more nutes. Especially calcium!
This cause a magnesium deficit within a week or two if the VPD stays too high for the current plant stage.

There are two ways to deal with a too high VPD.
First one is lowering gas exchange to keep a higher humidity level. You want around 70% in veg and at least 60% in bloom with 27-30°C ambient temps!!! Only 5% less can cause a too high VPD. +1,6hpa in the first weeks of flower for instance is too high, I've already posted a chart to work with in the other thread. But here's another one with 1°C less leaf temps..


Second way is lowering the nutrient strength. If the VPD is 20% too high and there is no way to keep the humidity high enough(for instance in summer?) you should lower the nutrient strength by 20%. This way the plants can still take up more water but they don't use as much nutes like before. But this solution is more directed to hydro growers, with pre-fertilized soil its more difficult to lower the nute level because you need to flush each plant separately.

There are a few helpful videos on youtube btw.!

Since I have my VPD dialed in I have no more issues with yellowing leaves. Not a single bit!
VPD is IMO one of the most important thing when you switch to (white) LED's and needs at least as much attention like ambient temps.
With HPS you get your desired leaf temps (~28-30°C) already with 25°C ambient temps because of its 800nm IR radiation which heats up the surface more like CRI80 LED. With 25°C one need only 50-55% RH for healthy plant growth. But if you keep that humidity level and increase the ambient temps the VPD drives out of the healthy range even with HPS and force your plants to take up too much nutes(calcium). Result: Magnesium deficits that looks almost similar to bleaching at the beginning. But bleaching occurs on the upper leaves first and lower are not affected. Mg deficit caused by too high VPD occurs at first in the middle of the plant and than slowly goes upwards.

The good thing is there are ambient controllers available where you can set a certain VPD level according to the plant stage. You can add a small hunidifier and its turned on when the humidity get too low. You can also add exaust and inlet fans or an AC. I bet when you keep a higher RH level next round you'll not get any issues. Plants don't care much about nutes and which brand it is; keep the level within a sufficient range and your plants will stay healthy.

Randomblame said:

When ever I have such issues and don't know from what it is its because of the VPD. It's not for nothing called 'the hidden force affecting your plants". You have a hell lot of light in your room and I expect the humidity is partwise below 50%. Because we need higher ambient temps with LED because of less leaf temps we need also higher humidity for healthy plant growth. Is the humidity too low and the plants take up and evaporate more water they also take up more nutes. Especially calcium!
This cause a magnesium deficit within a week or two if the VPD stays too high for the current plant stage.

There are two ways to deal with a too high VPD.
First one is lowering gas exchange to keep a higher humidity level. You want around 70% in veg and at least 60% in bloom with 27-30°C ambient temps!!! Only 5% less can cause a too high VPD. +1,6hpa in the first weeks of flower for instance is too high, I've already posted a chart to work with in the other thread. But here's another one with 1°C less leaf temps..

View attachment 4269485
Second way is lowering the nutrient strength. If the VPD is 20% too high and there is no way to keep the humidity high enough(for instance in summer?) you should lower the nutrient strength by 20%. This way the plants can still take up more water but they don't use as much nutes like before. But this solution is more directed to hydro growers, with pre-fertilized soil its more difficult to lower the nute level because you need to flush each plant separately.

There are a few helpful videos on youtube btw.!

Since I have my VPD dialed in I have no more issues with yellowing leaves. Not a single bit!
VPD is IMO one of the most important thing when you switch to (white) LED's and needs at least as much attention like ambient temps.
With HPS you get your desired leaf temps (~28-30°C) already with 25°C ambient temps because of its 800nm IR radiation which heats up the surface more like CRI80 LED. With 25°C one need only 50-55% RH for healthy plant growth. But if you keep that humidity level and increase the ambient temps the VPD drives out of the healthy range even with HPS and force your plants to take up too much nutes(calcium). Result: Magnesium deficits that looks almost similar to bleaching at the beginning. But bleaching occurs on the upper leaves first and lower are not affected. Mg deficit caused by too high VPD occurs at first in the middle of the plant and than slowly goes upwards.

The good thing is there are ambient controllers available where you can set a certain VPD level according to the plant stage. You can add a small hunidifier and its turned on when the humidity get too low. You can also add exaust and inlet fans or an AC. I bet when you keep a higher RH level next round you'll not get any issues. Plants don't care much about nutes and which brand it is; keep the level within a sufficient range and your plants will stay healthy.

View attachment 4269483

Click to expand...

Oh yeah!

Randomblame said:

When ever I have such issues and don't know from what it is its because of the VPD. It's not for nothing called 'the hidden force affecting your plants". You have a hell lot of light in your room and I expect the humidity is partwise below 50%. Because we need higher ambient temps with LED because of less leaf temps we need also higher humidity for healthy plant growth. Is the humidity too low and the plants take up and evaporate more water they also take up more nutes. Especially calcium!
This cause a magnesium deficit within a week or two if the VPD stays too high for the current plant stage.

There are two ways to deal with a too high VPD.
First one is lowering gas exchange to keep a higher humidity level. You want around 70% in veg and at least 60% in bloom with 27-30°C ambient temps!!! Only 5% less can cause a too high VPD. +1,6hpa in the first weeks of flower for instance is too high, I've already posted a chart to work with in the other thread. But here's another one with 1°C less leaf temps..

View attachment 4269485
Second way is lowering the nutrient strength. If the VPD is 20% too high and there is no way to keep the humidity high enough(for instance in summer?) you should lower the nutrient strength by 20%. This way the plants can still take up more water but they don't use as much nutes like before. But this solution is more directed to hydro growers, with pre-fertilized soil its more difficult to lower the nute level because you need to flush each plant separately.

There are a few helpful videos on youtube btw.!

Since I have my VPD dialed in I have no more issues with yellowing leaves. Not a single bit!
VPD is IMO one of the most important thing when you switch to (white) LED's and needs at least as much attention like ambient temps.
With HPS you get your desired leaf temps (~28-30°C) already with 25°C ambient temps because of its 800nm IR radiation which heats up the surface more like CRI80 LED. With 25°C one need only 50-55% RH for healthy plant growth. But if you keep that humidity level and increase the ambient temps the VPD drives out of the healthy range even with HPS and force your plants to take up too much nutes(calcium). Result: Magnesium deficits that looks almost similar to bleaching at the beginning. But bleaching occurs on the upper leaves first and lower are not affected. Mg deficit caused by too high VPD occurs at first in the middle of the plant and than slowly goes upwards.

The good thing is there are ambient controllers available where you can set a certain VPD level according to the plant stage. You can add a small hunidifier and its turned on when the humidity get too low. You can also add exaust and inlet fans or an AC. I bet when you keep a higher RH level next round you'll not get any issues. Plants don't care much about nutes and which brand it is; keep the level within a sufficient range and your plants will stay healthy.

View attachment 4269483

Click to expand...

Great info Mate ! Thank You

Randomblame said:

When ever I have such issues and don't know from what it is its because of the VPD. It's not for nothing called 'the hidden force affecting your plants". You have a hell lot of light in your room and I expect the humidity is partwise below 50%. Because we need higher ambient temps with LED because of less leaf temps we need also higher humidity for healthy plant growth. Is the humidity too low and the plants take up and evaporate more water they also take up more nutes. Especially calcium!
This cause a magnesium deficit within a week or two if the VPD stays too high for the current plant stage.

There are two ways to deal with a too high VPD.
First one is lowering gas exchange to keep a higher humidity level. You want around 70% in veg and at least 60% in bloom with 27-30°C ambient temps!!! Only 5% less can cause a too high VPD. +1,6hpa in the first weeks of flower for instance is too high, I've already posted a chart to work with in the other thread. But here's another one with 1°C less leaf temps..

View attachment 4269485
Second way is lowering the nutrient strength. If the VPD is 20% too high and there is no way to keep the humidity high enough(for instance in summer?) you should lower the nutrient strength by 20%. This way the plants can still take up more water but they don't use as much nutes like before. But this solution is more directed to hydro growers, with pre-fertilized soil its more difficult to lower the nute level because you need to flush each plant separately.

There are a few helpful videos on youtube btw.!

Since I have my VPD dialed in I have no more issues with yellowing leaves. Not a single bit!
VPD is IMO one of the most important thing when you switch to (white) LED's and needs at least as much attention like ambient temps.
With HPS you get your desired leaf temps (~28-30°C) already with 25°C ambient temps because of its 800nm IR radiation which heats up the surface more like CRI80 LED. With 25°C one need only 50-55% RH for healthy plant growth. But if you keep that humidity level and increase the ambient temps the VPD drives out of the healthy range even with HPS and force your plants to take up too much nutes(calcium). Result: Magnesium deficits that looks almost similar to bleaching at the beginning. But bleaching occurs on the upper leaves first and lower are not affected. Mg deficit caused by too high VPD occurs at first in the middle of the plant and than slowly goes upwards.

The good thing is there are ambient controllers available where you can set a certain VPD level according to the plant stage. You can add a small hunidifier and its turned on when the humidity get too low. You can also add exaust and inlet fans or an AC. I bet when you keep a higher RH level next round you'll not get any issues. Plants don't care much about nutes and which brand it is; keep the level within a sufficient range and your plants will stay healthy.

View attachment 4269483

Click to expand...

Ok, ok, I'll trust you & try. See, never went fully automated on the environment cuz mu first few yrs growing I learned to keep my room w/I a certain range on average & that was just fine. Very happy girls. Granted I was under hps & prob had the easiest, most resilient strains. Maaan, had awesome genetics back then. I quickly learned what happens when I'm outside that range.
VDP has been suggested to me a few times now & it's due time I pay attention to those who have better success then me on this matter.
I will do it.
Thnx!

hybridway2 said:

Ok, ok, I'll trust you & try. See, never went fully automated on the environment cuz mu first few yrs growing I learned to keep my room w/I a certain range on average & that was just fine. Very happy girls. Granted I was under hps & prob had the easiest, most resilient strains. Maaan, had awesome genetics back then. I quickly learned what happens when I'm outside that range.
VDP has been suggested to me a few times now & it's due time I pay attention to those who have better success then me on this matter.
I will do it.
Thnx!

Click to expand...

Hey man, don’t feel bad; i’m a commercial grower of a diff and outdoor crop, i was even trained about vpd at university, but because i didn’t have the right tools (humidifier, dehumidifier, heater, a/c, proper controller) i resisted for a considerable time.

Once you bite the bullet and get the right tools for your setup, keeping temp & humidity balanced is relatively easy and the payoff is clear.

I particularly resisted the 70+% rh needed duting early veg, partly also due to pm concerns...i still have a hard time with that...but @Randomblame has given an alternative solution for that....

BCBLondesLEDGrowLights said:

also, whats the run off? I always ask this when there is a problem.... can you feed your plants so they are soaked and piss out the bottom, and then dry in 2-3 days? if not, you are using too big of a pot... I can soak mine every time I feed, every 2 days, and collect run off every time I feed. I also use fabric pots though. Makes it super easy to chart, and watch the ppms escalate and the ph drop, If im feeding too much....

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Btw, wasnt ignoring ur responses & appreciated ur trying to help. I also agree with what ur saying. Does look underfeed & very well may be or locked from food not water

Or_Gro said:

Hey man, don’t feel bad; i’m a commercial grower of a diff and outdoor crop, i was even trained about vpd at university, but because i didn’t have the right tools (humidifier, dehumidifier, heater, a/c, proper controller) i resisted for a considerable time.

Once you bite the bullet and get the right tools for your setup, keeping temp & humidity balanced is relatively easy and the payoff is clear.

I particularly resisted the 70+% rh needed duting early veg, partly also due to pm concerns...i still have a hard time with that...but @Randomblame has given an alternative solution for that....

Click to expand...

Yup. I have the basic equipment in use & stay 35-60% only cuz it's not fully automated & does what it does.
Need to get true environmental controls I guess. Should fir this size anyways. Just never needed it before is why ice resisted so much. But no more. I cant give solid feedback on comparisons until I dial it in for led better then i have. Including reducing par.

Or_Gro said:

Aren’t all you guys from down there aussies?

Like, isn’t NZ an aussie out-island?

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Hey you cheeky fucker, as your Supreme Leader would say:
"FAKE NEWS"

Thanks for the controller details I will have a look at their range. Not going to do humidity as too hard, but temp / odour control would be helpful for winter.

Frank Cannon said:

Hey you cheeky fucker, as your Supreme Leader would say:
"FAKE NEWS"

Thanks for the controller details I will have a look at their range. Not going to do humidity as too hard, but temp / odour control would be helpful for winter.

Click to expand...

Lol!

Oh sorry, Australia is a kiwi out-island.... always get that mixed up.... which one has the giant boxing bunnies?

Your welcome

We do. They have some silly bird that can't even fly . . .


Kiwis are pretty 'armless in the grand scheme of things

We also have like, nine out of 10 of the world's most venomous land snakes, deadly spiders, crocodiles, sea snakes, sharks, deadly jellyfish (no shit - they can kill you), and killer octopi (seriously, the venomous blue ringed octopus). And killer cone shells - even the molluscs in Australia can kill you.

That's why we're tough and Kiwis are soft. Especially at cricket.

OK, I'd better take that last one back . . . We're not so tough at cricket anymore

Or_Gro said:

Hey man, don’t feel bad; i’m a commercial grower of a diff and outdoor crop, i was even trained about vpd at university, but because i didn’t have the right tools (humidifier, dehumidifier, heater, a/c, proper controller) i resisted for a considerable time.

Once you bite the bullet and get the right tools for your setup, keeping temp & humidity balanced is relatively easy and the payoff is clear.

I particularly resisted the 70+% rh needed duting early veg, partly also due to pm concerns...i still have a hard time with that...but @Randomblame has given an alternative solution for that....

Click to expand...

Yeah, here is another chart. It's for seedlings, veg and flower. As you see, 70% in veg is only needed when you veg with up to 30°C ambient. But even with 25°C you would need 69-63%. Over the day its really not a big issues as long as you keep the RH lower at night... no PM. Maybe add a bit silica

Randomblame said:

Yeah, here is another chart. It's for seedlings, veg and flower. As you see, 70% in veg is only needed when you veg with up to 30°C ambient. But even with 25°C you would need 69-63%. Over the day its really not a big issues as long as you keep the RH lower at night... no PM. Maybe add a bit silica
View attachment 4269958

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Thanks.

You really need to write the book RB.

Prawn Connery said:

We also have like, nine out of 10 of the world's most venomous land snakes, deadly spiders, crocodiles, sea snakes, sharks, deadly jellyfish (no shit - they can kill you), and killer octopi (seriously, the venomous blue ringed octopus). And killer cone shells - even the molluscs in Australia can kill you.

That's why we're tough and Kiwis are soft. Especially at cricket.

OK, I'd better take that last one back . . . We're not so tough at cricket anymore

Click to expand...

Cricket? Lol! The laffing begins with the name, wtf kinda male sport is called the name of a disney character? And that flat bat, wtf kinda cheating shit is that?

Prawn Connery said:

We also have like, nine out of 10 of the world's most venomous land snakes, deadly spiders, crocodiles, sea snakes, sharks, deadly jellyfish (no shit - they can kill you), and killer octopi (seriously, the venomous blue ringed octopus). And killer cone shells - even the molluscs in Australia can kill you.

That's why we're tough and Kiwis are soft. Especially at cricket.

OK, I'd better take that last one back . . . We're not so tough at cricket anymore

Click to expand...

And you guys have this..


and this..

Or_Gro said:

Lol!

Oh sorry, Australia is a kiwi out-island.... always get that mixed up.... which one has the giant boxing bunnies?

Your welcome

Click to expand...

You know, Australia would be a fantastic place to live if it wasn't full of Aussies!

Frank Cannon said:

You know, Australia would be a fantastic place to live if it wasn't full of Aussies!

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LMFAO!

Rightio then, back on track now

@Randomblame & where is Tboneshuffle on RIU? Its nice that Prawn doesn't have to answer for a change too.

I have a new HLG-240h-48A - could you pls tell me how to adjust the driver I will need it about half power to start with and there are 2 trim pots I can fiddle with. It will be running my new 48V H-influx strips off it.

2ndly, thanks for the humidity / VPD chart, I actually think I am lucky and will get away without having to worry about things too much if I can keep my temps around 27 degrees i.e. night humidity is in the ball park. I'm still working on my controller options.

Also @Or_Gro are all Americans like the great Donald T?

I might shoot off for a wee while now.......

SMIRK