3 days on jack's 5-12-26 and the plants are loving it! Bye bye General Hydroponics forever

Applesauceisgood

Well-Known Member
no they don't. mine get plenty. never had a P or K deficiency. sounds like your base nutes aren't up to par.

if you have 50ppm or 5000 ppm of P , if they only need 30ppm, you're still an ignorant dumb shite .

aloha means good-bye. i remember you now: youre' the guy saying that chlorine and peroxide don't work.
I think you have a fragile ego, you're defensive, and lack knowledge. Initially, I didn't speak down to you. Individuals running min/max setups with optimal conditions often enjoy pushing the envelope. You come at me like an angry child because you recall me breaking the news to your pool shock is converting into chloramine, and the oxidizing power of free chlorine is eaten up when added to a reservoir with feed concentrations of fertilizer. You don't know what VPD is but became triggered when I mentioned people flower with RH into the 70s with great success.

Your world was apparently shattered by these revelations. You can buy an ORP meter or a basic Hanna HI701 and monitor your free chlorine in res to see if it maintains appropriate levels for pathogen control. I think calcium sulfate hydrate (or flowering cal-mag, though the mg isn't needed) and MKP is good to use on top of the base (note: it's called base), in small amounts, at appropriate stages of development. Nothing more, nothing less.
 
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jonnynobody

Well-Known Member
Excessive nutrients don't "build up in plant tissues" that cause oddly burning flowers
Plants don't absorb elements? Could it be heavy metal contamination? Jack's advertises that their fertilizers are free of heavy metals. I'm wondering if GH maxi line contains high levels of heavy metals that's caused the issue?

This is an interesting read on the topic:
https://manicbotanix.com/contaminants-in-cannabis/
 
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p0opstlnksal0t

Well-Known Member
The plants absorb what they need from the soil. If you ionically bond cantaminants like heavy metals to macro or micro nutrients and the roots uptake it you can cantaminante the plant cells. This much is true. But if you feed your plants a higher ratio of P or N the plant won't uptake the higher levels of P or N and deposit the "excess" in the plant cells and it won't cause a buildup of those higher nutrient ratios in the flowers.



Plants don't absorb elements? Could it be heavy metal contamination? Jack's advertises that their fertilizers are free of heavy metals. I'm wondering if GH maxi line contains high levels of heavy metals that's caused the issue?

This is an interesting read on the topic:
https://manicbotanix.com/contaminants-in-cannabis/
 

jonnynobody

Well-Known Member
The plants absorb what they need from the soil. If you ionically bond cantaminants like heavy metals to macro or micro nutrients and the roots uptake it you can cantaminante the plant cells. This much is true. But if you feed your plants a higher ratio of P or N the plant won't uptake the higher levels of P or N and deposit the "excess" in the plant cells and it won't cause a buildup of those higher nutrient ratios in the flowers.
I'm specifically talking about hydroponic applications. Thank you for the great insight. Help me out here man. I am observing a remarkable difference in both flavor, burn qualities, and the aroma of developing flowers after switching fertilizers. I switched from jack's 5-12-26 to maxi bloom. I run RO water. The jack's flowers burned clean and tasted fantastic. For lack of a better description the maxi bloom flowers just don't taste right. They also burn to a dark ash whether smoking a joint or a bowl. Never a clean gray ash finish. That's a contaminant of some kind. After doing a bit of reading it appears there is an industry problem with heavy metal contamination in technical grade phosphorous that is used in the fertilizer industry. With your insight as to how plants use and absorb fertilizer I'd like to ask you another question, because I really want to get to the bottom of this and I genuinely appreciate your assistance.

What if it's not the addition of P that's causing a nasty flavor or poor burn qualities, but rather heavy metal contamination that's piggy backing on the phosphorous in the bloom mix?

Jack's advertises no heavy metals in their fertilizer. Could this be the culprit?
Just to add a little more salt to this statement my first hydroponic flower cycle was with the GH flora series. I added kool bloom throughout flower which is loaded with phosphate. The flowers were amazingly beautiful. When I smoked the flowers it literally hurt the fillings in my teeth as if I chewed on a piece of aluminum foil. It was nearly unusable, and it burned to a hard charcoal. It literally had to be picked out of the bowl. I suspect heavy metal contamination as the culprit.

My theory is the fertilizer we use on the plants we are going to ultimately dry and smoke is more important than any of us may have realized simply due to the presence of heavy metal contamination in some fertilizers. It costs more money to test for heavy metals like jack's does. I suspect some companies take the short cut to increase profits, and as a result heavy metals are present in their fertilizers.

That jive with you?
 

jonnynobody

Well-Known Member
I think you have a fragile ego, you're defensive, and lack knowledge. Initially, I didn't speak down to you. Individuals running min/max setups with optimal conditions often enjoy pushing the envelope. You come at me like an angry child because you recall me breaking the news to your pool shock is converting into chloramine, and the oxidizing power of free chlorine is eaten up when added to a reservoir with feed concentrations of fertilizer. You don't know what VPD is but became triggered when I mentioned people flower with RH into the 70s with great success.

Your world was apparently shattered by these revelations. You can buy an ORP meter or a basic Hanna HI701 and monitor your free chlorine in res to see if it maintains appropriate levels for pathogen control. I think calcium sulfate hydrate (or flowering cal-mag, though the mg isn't needed) and MKP is good to use on top of the base (note: it's called base), in small amounts, at appropriate stages of development. Nothing more, nothing less.
Can't we all just get along :)

 

rkymtnman

Well-Known Member
I think you have a fragile ego, you're defensive, and lack knowledge
you still haven't proven this statement wrong:
if you have 50ppm or 5000 ppm of P , if they only need 30ppm, they only use 30ppm.
i've said something similar 3 times now. so prove it wrong and i'll retract calling you a dumb shite. until then, you still are.
and by the way, i'm defensive b/c you called me ignorant.
 
Harley Smith of NPK industries has a video were he talks about the 2 times it is appropriate to briefly boost phosphates. Early veg and early flowering. Early veg to stimulate faster root growth and early in flowering to turn on genes for more flowering sites and earlier flowering. The study he sites was on peppers though. Pretty different from most who use it late in flowering for long periods. Probably gonna do a side by side in flowering to test it out.
 

jonnynobody

Well-Known Member
i'm surprised you haven't called him out: he made a sly comment about your growing skills. (i guess he didn't look at your pics?)
I pick my battles more carefully the older I get. Why? Yesterday for instance I'm working in the flower room tying off branches to spread the canopy and I hear my light controller relay throw and all of my ventilation shut down. I felt my heart fall right through my asshole. I can't properly communicate just how horrible a feeling that was that ripped through me in that very moment as I'm rolling my butt around on a dolly cart underneath the canopy with no light of any kind and my entire house just lost power. I thought maybe I was drawing too much power and my main breaker tripped. Checked it. Nope. The plot thickens. Look out my windows and no lights in the whole neighborhood. Off to the garage. Fire the generator. Turn off the main breaker. Disconnect light controller. Disassemble a receptacle in my garage. Clip the cord on a spare extension cord and hard wire it to my receptacle in the garage. Plug into a 15 amp 110v receptacle on my generator to back feed power which only provides 1 phase of power so every other breaker was active. I got lucky and all the breakers that control my ventilation were on.

Then I had to run 2 50' 10 gauge whips from the fucking generator to the fucking flower room to fire a couple HID lights so the flower room could limp through until power was restored. Power comes back on. I disconnect the whips. Disconnect the back feed. Fucking power goes out again 5 minutes after I turn off the generator. Reconnect everything. Go get fuel from the gas station. Wait for power to restore again. Then disconnect everything again after power is restored. Reset all my timers. Reconnect my lights to the proper port on the controller. I worked until 3am getting everything back on track. And you know what? I fucking forgot to reset the light timer. I woke up at 7am. Lights off is at 5am. The fucking lights had just turned off and my room had reached 86 degrees.

Yeah, so I pick and choose my battles these days. I got enough bullshit to shovel in a day's time without adding unnecessary wastes of time :)
 
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jonnynobody

Well-Known Member
Harley Smith of NPK industries has a video were he talks about the 2 times it is appropriate to briefly boost phosphates. Early veg and early flowering. Early veg to stimulate faster root growth and early in flowering to turn on genes for more flowering sites and earlier flowering. The study he sites was on peppers though. Pretty different from most who use it late in flowering for long periods. Probably gonna do a side by side in flowering to test it out.
Harley Smith is an employee of NPK industries. Do you really feel his opinions are objective? That's a rhetorical question :)
At this point I'm focused on heavy metal contaminants as the possible culprit here regarding the difference in flavor and burn qualities when using 1 brand of fertilizer versus another. I also believe a balanced fertilizer is the best approach from start to finish. If you're unsure talk to Uncle Ben over at ICMAG. Bring everything you got, because he's good :)
 

rkymtnman

Well-Known Member
I got enough bullshit to shovel in a day's time
sounds like it! that sux about your power situation.

that's how it works for me too: ours goes out in the summer mainly. as soon as i go to the garage to get the gennie, get her hooked up and shit, the power comes back on. only luck i have is bad. lol!!
 

jonnynobody

Well-Known Member
if you do a search, there is an awesome thread here with both uncle ben and fatman. those 2 dudes know more about nutes than probably anybody.
I remember Uncle Ben trying to set people straight 10 years ago. His plants always looked amazing. Lush and green all the way to harvest day. Beautiful thick colas. You ever wanna know what's what about something you find some gray hair. You'll quickly get to the bottom of the bullshit. They ain't got no patience for it :)
 

jonnynobody

Well-Known Member
sounds like it! that sux about your power situation.

that's how it works for me too: ours goes out in the summer mainly. as soon as i go to the garage to get the gennie, get her hooked up and shit, the power comes back on. only luck i have is bad. lol!!
It actually makes me feel better I'm not the only one. Thank you for that :)
 

rkymtnman

Well-Known Member
I remember Uncle Ben trying to set people straight 10 years ago. His plants always looked amazing. Lush and green all the way to harvest day. Beautiful thick colas. You ever wanna know what's what about something you find some gray hair. You'll quickly get to the bottom of the bullshit. They ain't got no patience for it :)
i remember one of his nutes that he likes is the 20-20-20 from jacks. that and dyna gro foliage pro.
 

jonnynobody

Well-Known Member
i remember one of his nutes that he likes is the 20-20-20 from jacks. that and dyna gro foliage pro.
I have a container of 20-20-20 in my garage right now thanks to UB. I just found this while searching for information regarding heavy metal contamination in the non-organic fertilizer industry. Kind of mind blowing and nauseating at the same time:

The presence of heavy metals in inorganic fertilizers is well established. Analytical testing of a wide range of fertilizer products shows that some phosphate and micronutrient fertilizers, and liming materials contain elevated levels of arsenic, cadmium, and lead compared to other fertilizer types (e.g., nitrogen, potash, gypsum). A few waste-derived fertilizer products also have been shown to contain elevated (parts per trillion) levels of dioxins.


More than 54 million tons (110 billion pounds) of commercial fertilizers and liming materials were consumed in the US in 1996, with over 2 million tons consumed on farms in Minnesota. The bulk of these fertilizers are applied in agricultural settings (croplands); however, some commercial fertilizers are used by consumers around the home (e.g., micronutrient and phosphate fertilizers applied on lawns and gardens).


Heavy metals occur naturally in soils and in source materials used to manufacture fertilizers. In addition, heavy metals (and other hazardous constituents) occur in products as a result of blending fertilizers with recycled industrial wastes (e.g., steel mill flue dust, mine tailings). Federal statutes allow reclassified industrial wastes to be used in the manufacture of fertilizers, provided that such use constitutes “beneficial recycling,” and that the concentrations of hazardous constituents in the resulting fertilizers do not exceed the treatment standards specified for wastes (40 CFR 266.20).

Source: https://www.health.state.mn.us/communities/environment/risk/studies/metals.html
 
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