24 hour light vs. 18/6.

Bangaman

Active Member
We know that the ability to anticipate light/dark cycles gives organisms a fitness advantage. It is common sense that most organisms have the innate ability to measure time. In fact, most organisms us included do not only for instance react to sunrise but, rather, our bodies anticipate the dawn and adjust their biology accordingly.

This is because organisms including plants have environmental time cues, called zeitgebers (German for time givers). These little buggers are "hard-wired" via DNA to the earth's 24 hour rotation and they have the ability to reset the 'clock' as a function of the time of day, position of the sun /angle of light(external or environmental cues, think jet-lag ). For example, If the zeitgebers for light intensity along with a specie specific percent of other zeitgebers read change, the others follow suite after a moment of adjustment. The specie specific percent for plants is relatively low. Therefore you set the plant's rhythms with just length of light intensity
 

Bangaman

Active Member
Not sure if i read it right, but i assure you no one on this site would even consider harvesting their plants 3 weeks early. like week 6 on a 63 day day strain? I run 24 hours of light in veg and I've never experienced that.
Yes you read it wrong. I meant
1) Total time from seed to harvest as a function of target plant size before switching to flower. Unless your cue to switch is the age of the plant in which case would you switch a stunted and unhealthy plant just because it's "breeder" recommended time is up?
 

Bangaman

Active Member
People talk about the energy saved under 18 hour vs 24, but fail to realize that people under 24 hours need less light intensity to get the same amount of DLI.
Totally agree, also, my 1000 Watts cost $50 a month each to operate, about $1.67 a day (30 day cycle), or $0.069 an hour. If you I opted for only 6 hours night on an 18/6, I would be saving $0.42 a day, $12.50 a month. The real question is "feeding" the plants 25% less worth a monthly production cost cut of $12.5.

We can look at many other ways to figure this out but it will always boil down to 25% less feeding because being in the dark does nothing for the plant (apart from setting it's flower biological clock). See my posting on biological clock and on the cellular biology of C3 versus c4 versus CAM plants further up in this thread.
 

Olive Drab Green

Well-Known Member
Totally agree, also, my 1000 Watts cost $50 a month each to operate, about $1.67 a day (30 day cycle), or $0.069 an hour. If you I opted for only 6 hours night on an 18/6, I would be saving $0.42 a day, $12.50 a month. The real question is "feeding" the plants 25% less worth a monthly production cost cut of $12.5.

We can look at many other ways to figure this out but it will always boil down to 25% less feeding because being in the dark does nothing for the plant (apart from setting it's flower biological clock). See my posting on biological clock and on the cellular biology of C3 versus c4 versus CAM plants further up in this thread.
.069 is your kWh rating. Other places, it would be much higher. Here, for instance, it's like .08-.11 kWh.
 

Bangaman

Active Member
.069 is your kWh rating. Other places, it would be much higher. Here, for instance, it's like .08-.11 kWh.
Like I said above,in the end, you are saving 25% by shutting off the lights 25% (6 hours) of the day. No matter the cost per KW per hour, we are back to 25% less feeding as a factor of cost cuts. Is the cost cut worth less feeding? Plants will grow continuously without negative effects if kept at decent feeding condition ranges or even less than optimum feeding conditions ranges (light intensity, availability of water, temperature ranges, humidity ranges, PH ranges and decent nutes) .

All you are achieving by shutting lights off is feeding less and cutting your cost of production by 25%. If that 25% extra cost (under $20 a month) will break you, then you probably should rethink the whole weed growing because there are potentially more hidden and unforeseeable cost that come with growing that are much more than that.
 
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Olive Drab Green

Well-Known Member
Light isn't part of feeding, it's part of its figurative pulmonary/circulatory/digestive system. Light causes circulation and is what causes the negative pressure needed to bring the nutrients up into it from the root zone. Think of the light as the exterior heart.
 
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Bangaman

Active Member
Plot a mental Graph, With "Time to Switch to 12/12" is a factor of plant height or plant size i.e. the Y-Axis, and Time Spent Feeding (exposure time to light) in the X-Axis. All other growing factors held constant and knowing that Plants grow continuously under uninterrupted feeding.

Say your target time to switch to 12/12 to trigger flowering is say 1/3 of target genetic height of mature plant. You will see that the Y-Axis Goes up quicker with longer, more exposure to light light.

For those who like Math, DY/DX or the gradient (slope) is steeper with more light exposure, meaning Growth Rate increases or decreases depending on quantity available food, in this case the time exposed to light energy.

Now Plot another graph with Time To reach Target Height in the X-Axis and Monthly electric Bill in the Y-Axis. Because overall KWh Expense on the Y-Axis is directly proportional to Time Spent growing, i.e. your overall KWh expense goes up with time spent growing.

So if you increase your time spent growing, by reducing feeding and therefore reducing your growth rate using a 18/6 light cycle, you will increase your overall KHh Expense.

You save money by feeding 24/hours a day. Unlike C4 Plants like corn that can take an unlimited amount of light intensity and grow Record heights in record time, Hence the saying to grow like corn or something like that, C3 Plants like Cannabis have a light intensity threshold that if you stay under this threshold and do not go too far bellow it, the plant will keep growing uninterrupted with uninterrupted exposure to light. Only CAM plants need an actual "Dark" phase to fix carbon.

Like I said earlier, the actual Dark phase of photosynthesis does not require darkness but takes place without the use of light energy whether the light energy is there or not, the process goes on.

For science buffs, remember the two stages of photosynthesis in C3 plants and the three stages of photosynthesis in C4 plants. Apparently this is not common knowledge that Photosynthesis takes place in two or 3 stages: light-dependent reactions and the Calvin cycle (light-independent reactions). Light-dependent reactions, which take place in the thylakoid membrane, use light energy to make ATP and NADPH. The Calving cycle or light-independent reactions still take place 24/7 365 as long as light is present to replenish the Enzymes for the reactions in the light-independent reactions. The first phase needs light as will go on as long as there is light because. Like I said earlier, the enzymes of the Calvin Cycle need light and therefore by starving the plants by six hours, the plant has to rebuild this enzyme reservoir when the lights come back on. Whereas under uninterrupted light, the Enzyme reservoir for the Calvin Cycle is never depleted.

The difference in C4 plants like corn and why they can take unlimited amounts of light intensities (Watt per square foot) is that they have evolved a second light dependent process that protects the Calvin cycle from the effects of photorespiration which happens if you feed the plants too much light intensity it shuts the stomata and starts respiration instead of the Calvin Cycle. C4 plants do this and also continue to the Calvin Cycle so they cannot suffer photorespiration at high light intensities.

Remember light intensity refers to the Watt per square foot and not the length of exposure to wattage

Happy Gardening!
 
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Bangaman

Active Member
Light isn't part of feeding, it's part of its figurative pulmonary/circulatory/digestive system. Light causes circulation and is what causes the negative pressure needed to bring the nutrients up into it from the root zone. Think of the light as the exterior heart.
Awesome! This type of illiterate response is why you should take everything you read on here with a HUGE grain of salt.
 

a mongo frog

Well-Known Member
Awesome! This type of illiterate response is why you should take everything you read on here with a HUGE grain of salt.
You shouldn't respond like that. Simply tell the member he/she is wrong and why. Most of us know light plays a huge factor in feeding, some may not so explain why. You obviously have have vast botany education. Don't be a dick about it though.
 

Bangaman

Active Member
You shouldn't respond like that. Simply tell the member he/she is wrong and why. Most of us know light plays a huge factor in feeding, some may not so explain why. You obviously have have vast botany education. Don't be a dick about it though.
I stand corrected.

In my defense however, you must appreciated the whole thing about

"Light isn't part of feeding, it's part "figurative pulmonary/circulatory/digestive system. Light causes circulation and is what causes the negative pressure needed to bring the nutrients up into it from the root zone. Think of the light as the exterior heart."

Its a classic, You cannot make that up. There has to be an option to vote a comment as "Best of Rollitop.org"

Light is part of a Plant's "figurative pulmonary/circulatory/digestive system

Dude.... WTF How could I in all good sense pass on that?

In his defense, although not accurate, it is not very inaccurate either. Because light energy does start the process and dictates phloem flow tempo
 
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Olive Drab Green

Well-Known Member
I
I stand corrected.

In my defense however, you must appreciated the whole thing about

"Light isn't part of feeding, it's part "figurative pulmonary/circulatory/digestive system. Light causes circulation and is what causes the negative pressure needed to bring the nutrients up into it from the root zone. Think of the light as the exterior heart."

Its a classic, You cannot make that up. There has to be an option to vote a comment as "Best of Rollitop.org"

Light is part of a Plant's "figurative pulmonary/circulatory/digestive system

Dude.... WTF How could I in all good sense pass on that?

In his defense, although not accurate, it is not very inaccurate either. Because light energy does start the process and dictates phloem flow tempo
I think you misunderstand. I just meant light is not food. It helps utilize the food via photosynthesis. Or am I wrong?
 

Olive Drab Green

Well-Known Member
I can take Ranger games. Way too used to that. I'm just asking that if I have misinformation or disinformation and you're gonna spot check me, at least tell me why my information is incorrect so I can store the right information in my head.
 

Bangaman

Active Member
I

I think you misunderstand. I just meant light is not food. It helps utilize the food via photosynthesis. Or am I wrong?
You are very correct. And your "external heart and the pulmonary stuff analogy was correct in "context" to the subject. It was just very colorful. Hence my suggestion to the "big grain" of salt. The same Colors can be interpreted differently and you were very colorful.

I loved it and it will be my go-to "watered" down description of photosynthesis for a while
 

Olive Drab Green

Well-Known Member
You are very correct. And your "external heart and the pulmonary stuff analogy was correct in "context" to the subject. It was just very colorful. Hence my suggestion to the "big grain" of salt. The same Colors can be interpreted differently and you were very colorful.

I loved it and it will be my go-to "watered" down description of photosynthesis for a while
Appreciated, thank you.
 

ky man

Well-Known Member
I always heard that plants took in feed and stuff in day time and used it up at night and grew onley at night.I have never grew a plant indoores in my life.I would like to try this comeing winter and just grow 4 plants to start with.I have many friends that grow indoors and they tell me that 18 houres is great and any thing longer is a waist of light.me I don't have a clue.I always woundered it those auto plants would grow better with 24 houres of light but my friends say no..I have always grown outdoors for over 40 years.ky
 

Bangaman

Active Member
I always heard that plants took in feed and stuff in day time and used it up at night and grew onley at night.I have never grew a plant indoores in my life.I would like to try this comeing winter and just grow 4 plants to start with.I have many friends that grow indoors and they tell me that 18 houres is great and any thing longer is a waist of light.me I don't have a clue.I always woundered it those auto plants would grow better with 24 houres of light but my friends say no..I have always grown outdoors for over 40 years.ky
Just because everyone thinks something is correct...

You should grow with your plants and use your own research. Up above I went in good detail why dark does nothing for cannabis but sets time to flower. I also gave a crash explanation why some plants do not need dark and grow continuously in the presence of light.

Do not take my word or anyone's but follow the science. There is too much anecdotal wisdom in the grow community most of it wasteful junk layman misinterpretation . The 18/6 and pre flower flushing being 2 big farces that some just do not want to admit they have been setting themselves back all those years so they rather swear the junk wisdom works
 
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