1st Grow: DP, HB, CFL

Rambunctious

Well-Known Member
Each plant accepted 3 cups of food/molasses/water this morning.

Having the lights on during the day allows me to leave the curtain ajar so as to improve ventilation and keep temps within acceptable ranges.
Since this is a sativa, I'm hoping that a 4" stretch of the branches is normal and that it will slow (if not stop) soon. I could raise the light a few more inches if I had to but I definitely prefer THAT space to be filled with bud!

I was reading about transplanting and sativas - something about how one has to keep them almost "bound" to ensure they stay managable. Any input on this theory/experience?

They appear to be doing all right in their 3/4 gallon containers so, I guess I'll leave them alone for now but, my buddy who manages a local restaurant gave me several square 5-gallon buckets a couple of days ago, just in case.

I gave each branch a good pinch so they'll be good and strong to hold up the big buds a'comin'. My fingers were nice and gooey when I was finished touching the branches.

Still no visible dingle-balls or 'naners. :leaf:

I'm really, REALLY looking forward to playing with the fruits of this labor. (water) curing, oils and butters, oh my! ;-)
 

Rambunctious

Well-Known Member
From motacos' "Ultimate Sativa Thread" revival at icmag, emphasis mine:

"The amount of nutes you feed your sativa is also going to effect how long it flowers to a pretty dramatic amount in some cases. This is another place people try to grow sativas like indicas. With a hybrid plant as we all know those last 3 weeks or so is when all the real weight is put on. And you don't wanna skimp on ferts at this time. If the plant runs out of N its not going to produce as big of buds as it could've. So people usually feed up until about a week or a lil longer then they quit feeding. Which is what you should do for most plants.

But sativas aren't most plants. The reason those hybrid buds get so big and resinous those last few weeks is they think winter is coming. They are secreting resin trying to catch pollen, and desperately trying to produce enough energy in the buds to take care of seeds before a frost ends their life over night. Since there are no seeds they produce bigger buds.

But alot of sativas are from places there is no real winter to speak of. Some places near the equator plants live for years. Most have no genetic background to be prepared for the concept of finishing for a frost. What determines finishing time for tropical sativas is nutrients. When they are in the wild there is no frost that forces them to try to make seeds. But if they run out of nutes they will die and so will their seeds. So when they start feeling nutrients running out in the ecosystem full of other nutrient thieves they know they need to put all energy into bud production for seeds and not growing more stem and leaves.

By keeping feeding your sativa N as fan leaves die during flower you are accidentally telling your plant that their ecosystem is thriving and they should compete to outgrow other canopy. Stem and leaves in other words which also extends the plants flower time dramatically. New growers often accidentally flower plants for nine months and stuff confused why new growth keeps coming out. Wondering when its going to end. This not only effects flower time but also the high. All those clear trichs aren't ready and produce anxious headache type stone mixed into your euphoric sativa.
As the plant yellows during the last month... good let it. Its natural. As long as it has P and K it will produce nice buds that are ready to finish in unison. Without all that new growth popping out of old growth. Sativas need very little N to produce growth; trust me. Let it finish you'll be happier with PROPERLY mature sativa buds for a change in a shorter period than you would have. This is the mistake so many growers make and why their weed is anxious and takes so long to flower.

Also leads to alot of negative opinons about sats.


Flushing is real simple. just don't drown them. Its just like getting rid of a hangover. coffee or a cold shower don't do anything. only time and detoxing. Just use plain old water that last month with that sativa and you'll be fine. And thats about it for the grow.

... without question the fastest way to get off a sativa harvest."

... more from motaco

"very few people realize this but how long sativas take to harvest is very closely linked to fertilizer regimen. during the end of mid flower leaves begin to yellow but the buds have more time to them. growers react the same way they do with hyrbids and touch it up with a tea heavy in N. when really the plant was getting ready to finish and its part of the sativas biological clock was kicking in; the grower inadvertently told his plant that death was not coming, to keep striving to live, and the plant takes much longer to finsih. let me get an exerpt from mj growers handbook to help me illustrate how and why this happens.

"Plants growing in the wild outdoors obtain their nutrients from
the breakdown of complex organic chemicals into simpler water-
soluble forms. The roots catch the chemicals using a combination
of electrical charges and chemical manipulation. The ecosystem is
generally self-supporting. For instance, in some tropical areas most
of the nutrients are actually held by living plants. As soon as the
vegetation dies, bacteria and other microlife feast and render the
nutrients water-soluble. They are absorbed into the soil and are
almost immediately taken up by higher living plants." - ed rosenthal

now in places like colombia or thailand where there are native strains that can take as long as 6 months (in extreme cases) it is not uncommon at all for a plant growing a hill side that catches runoff to grow gigantic plants of very old age. often there will be 2 weeks of flowering growth, 2 months of flowering growth, and buds that have BEEN dead all on the same plant. and every bud age inbetween.

so its a normal reaction to biological cycles. if it happens TOO early than go ahead and give it a lil N. but beware, sativas greatest joy in life is turning N into leafy elongated buds.

another determining factor to how long a plant grows is root space, which you will become well aware of if you grow sativas. if sativas have an unlimited root space they will want to flower longer, grow longer nodes, and ridiculous heights.

typically you will repot sativas many more times than other plants. you want them to feel their restrictions, before they get too tall. anyone who has flowered a true sativa from seed will attest to this. it is not uncommon for a sativa flowered from seed to reach 6ft in two months. it is also advised to bend your stems and keep high winds and all other tricks to promote healthy stems. not only does this make the stems capable of handling large buds, but also any energy you can detract from vertical stem growth and put into other positive attributes will help limit space between nodes, and thus give you bigger, denser buds. when you limit the roots your limiting allowed vertical growth which at the same time is making tighter internodes. so long as you don't get rootbound your doing a good thing.

you generally wait until it gets a good rootmass, where when you remove the pot you can see healthy rootmass from the outside all the way down and then repot. grazing the roots lightly during repot promotes new root growth.
when you repot remember your trying to keep the pots on the smaller side. once the real serious amounts of stretching are done a few weeks into flower you can give them much more rootspace for bud development.

IMHO sativas should be grown in a soil or soiless with slow release all organic mix. sativas often become quite unmanagable under aero or hydroponics and are well documented to usually prefering organics over chems."

Thank you, motaco.

In this thread, Hempy (originator of the Hempy Bucket) addresses sativas ... more studying for me! Like our buddy quazi says, "the more you read, the better the weed." I have to say, that is exactly the reason I'm doing as well as I am with this first grow - I read A LOT.

According to Hempy, since (from what I gather) DP is a near-pure Sativa, I shoulda thrown 'em into flower much earlier. With this in mind, I'm VERY happy I decided to practice LST.

The lights are off now or I'd take a pic of the lovely buds already developing. And still no dingle-balls or nanners! :bigjoint:
 

Rambunctious

Well-Known Member
I haven't fed/watered since day before yesterday but, I'll wait until tomorrow anyway. Took some pics, though. I don't see any balls or nanners, do you? I wish you'd look because I tend to see what I want to see. :hump: :hug:

I'm now on the prowl for a low "N" fert. After reading all I have about "perennial" sativa, I'm wondering if a partial harvest would work, like, forever?

:weed:
 

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Rambunctious

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1/2 gallon food/water/H2O2 between both girls, and more pics. They're so much prettier when I pull them out from under the light but, how long 'til harvest? :lol:

ETA: Since the stretch seems to have stopped, I'm thinking of transplanting this weekend. The question is, should I do a complete transplant to square 5-gallon buckets, or should I cut the buckets down by half and bog them over? Experienced input is invited! Thanks in advance.

ETA: Gradual harvest method - 3 effects from one plant.
 

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Rambunctious

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Well, for better or worse, they've been transplanted.

I cut square 5-gallon buckets down by about 3 inches (right below the rims and handle), carved a couple of grab-handle holes in each one as well as the requise Hempy holes (2 per bucket) and painted them black. I didn't have white paint to cover the black but, I can wrap them in white paper later.

So, I started by gently cutting down the sides of the vinegar jugs in several places. The roots were tight. Really tight. I'm pretty sure I got them transfered over to the larger buckets without disturbing the roots though - I thought perlite would go everywhere but there was only a little loose stuff on top, the rest was a solid clump. I transferred as gently as I could, filled with perlite around the sides and water/fed really well.

I still didnt' see any balls or nanners.

Assuming these plants survive this episode of torture, since I didn't make a serious effort at cloning, I'm thinking of mowing the best buds off of these 2 and re-vegging them with the goal of making a mother out of the healthier, hardier plant and re-flowering the other one.
 

Rambunctious

Well-Known Member
Well, hmmmm. The results of the transplant a couple of days ago (2.5 wks into flowering) doesn't seem to be the disaster I'd feared. Thinking about how tightly their roots were packed into those vinegar jugs, I'm kinda not surprised to see them looking at least content.

The under-HPS pics don't do them justice plus, you can see on the near side of the closest one, where one side-CFL got too close. I'm probably living proof that anyone who WANTS to do this, CAN do it. LOL
 

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Rambunctious

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Damn. Either, by transplanting late, I've reactivated the s -t -r -e -t -c -h OR, it was wishful-thinking to imagine that they'd slowed down in the first place. The budlets are getting bigger though, so there's that.

My nice even canopy is getting all uneven. :cry: Is this to be expected or is there a lesson here for me? :-| Because I do not like it. I can LST the tall ones out to the side to make a bowl shape but, just how long (tall) do sativa side branches get, anyway? Shopping list for next grow: Bushmaster.

Several dead/dying leaves daily - normal or, not so much?

Still no evidence of herms or boys.

The 4 little cuttings have had very, very little attention: weeeak grow FNG every other watering in their little Hempy cups, and they're sitting by a 24/7 aquarium. They're skinny but they're green. I'll have to set a CFL on 'em before I put them in the flowering chamber but, how much ferts do clones need? How much will they tolerate? Not that I want to push them.

I'm really liking the buckets. So easy and clean. Hey, I'm not lazy! I just like to work smart. :mrgreen: Thanks for any and all help.
 

Rambunctious

Well-Known Member
LOL Keep the light away from the plant! Funny guy.

They stretch no matter what I do. I will have to extend the grow chamber ceiling if this keeps up. I can do it in 10 minutes but, it's awkward and I hope I don't have to do it. Shut up, sciatica. Yes, thank you, I realize I'm growing Sativa. Next grow I will definitely spring for some Bushmaster. I wonder: am I moving the light because they're stretching or, are they stretching because I'm moving the light? That's enough of a question to procrastinate raising that ceiling. Will report test results at TBD time. :mrgreen: The more I look at these pics, the more it looks like the stretch has slowed - the top nodes are closer together. Thank you ganja gods!

Amazing to think that this grow could take another 2-3 months to mature. Durban Poison grows more like an Indica though, right? I'm pretty sure I read that somewhere. :hump: LOL Anyway, I hope it's true cuz I want Santa to bring me some nice stony stuff and some toys to make that stuff into even better stuff. I've been good, Santa. Please!

Anyway, I am very, very glad I LST'd from the start. I had to tie them back down again around the edges, again using cotton twine and clothes pins - easy with their new square bucket homes. It sorta looks like a SOG setup, right? But it's actually about 3 dozen side branches. Cool!

And, I don't see no dingle-balls, do you? How 'bout 'nanners? I don't see any. This means they're GIRLS, right? I'll assume so for now and hope like hell for the best.

1/2 gallon food and water for each GIRL, every 3 days. I noticed some very minor curling during this photo shoot so apparently, I've been pushing the nutes for all they're worth. I don't think it's heat stress because the heat has been pretty consistent and, the curling isn't - consistent. Day temp is 82, night temp is 65-70. Next watering I will err on the weaker side. I've never heard of anyone flushing a Hempy Bucket, except at The End. If it ain't broke, don't fix it, huh? LOL

I'm pissed! I just read that molasses doesn't do any good with chem nutes and, FN are chem based? And here I thought I was so sophisticated in my growing technique. LOL Again, I'm a living example of how anyone can do this if they want to badly enough.

Oh, and, I found my shiny auto window shield and, it worked even better then I could have hoped as the indent for the rearview mirror is perfect to fit under the flexduct. It wraps right around but, it only goes around 3 sides, so I've still got a CFL on one side.

Anyway, pics as of about 30 min. ago.
 

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Rambunctious

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One half gallon for each girl again this morning. Some branches are stretching, most are not. Look "buddy," though.
 

Rambunctious

Well-Known Member
Last night I had a nightmare that I'd double-nuted my babes. I looked this AM and they seem OK, though. Whew!

Still, the babes s t r e t c h. Not all of the branches, but definitely a bunch of 'em. So, LST continues gently as needed to maintain the bowl shape under (around) the light. I wonder, would one need a bigger ballast to use a bigger bulb? Probably so but, this will have to do for awhile.
 

Rambunctious

Well-Known Member
I am absolutely certain that I inadvertently "double-nuted" my babes but, now I know why it didn't make them sick: I've actually been under-nuting them @ 1tsp./gal. - a mistake I shall work to rectify over the next couple of weeks. I wondered about the yellowing leaves - there weren't many and the whole plant was green but, maybe there will be fewer yellow leaves now. The FLB label says 3 tsp./gal. for "fast-growing" plants. Yeah, that's what I want, especially since these chicks hatched 3.5 months ago - and are Sativa to boot. I shall nute them until I see brown tips, then back off.

Things are looking nice and "buddy" in there, especially for being so undernourished but, since I didn't take my digicam, you'll have to take my word for it. :hug:

Plus, if I posted a pic, you might wisely advise me to raise my light. I guess I've been fooling myself, thinking if I left it where it was (is), they would stop s- t- r- e- t- c- h- i- n- g. It has slowed somewhat but, it's still quite noticeable. Looking forward to next grow w/ Bushmaster (and "meanwhile smokables").

I'd get in there and raise that shelf/ceiling today but, it can wait until tomorrow - maybe even the weekend when my partner can help. With one increased feeding/watering before the weekend, I might get a chance to see if the upped nutes increase the stretch. Unless a helpful soul pops in and advises me.:joint:

I can hardly wait to really give this product a good med test. I hope it has that nice uplifting, motivating Sativa HIGH that I want so badly. Please and thanks, ganja-gods.
:weed::weed::weed::weed::weed:
 

Rambunctious

Well-Known Member
I pulled the girls out to the kitchen like I do every week or so. It gives me a chance to really look at them, to clean up their trunks and to snap some pics - I'd have taken more than I did but, sorry, low batteries.

Whoa. My girls have trunks! :hump: Approx. 4.5 weeks flowering now.

1+ gallon (an old vinegar jug full) of aerated tap water w/ 1 Tbsp. FNB divided between both girls today. I have never pH'd this water but, judging by the results and by the fact that it's very drinkable, I expect it's all right.

My decision was easy today regarding which one would become the Queen Mother Plant. Looking at the silouette pic reinforces my thoughts. Gladie is in the south window today so I can watch for brown tips; HRH Ruthie went back under the 150w. The second pic is one of her branches. Her TOP top was a casualty from when the CFLs came down. Drat! She's still purdier than her sister, though.

Gladie's so stretchy and puny I wonder if she's worth even keeping. Yeah, I know she is but, is there something I can do to would fatten her up? Maybe tripling the nutes will help, eh? :shock:
 

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Rambunctious

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The increased nutrients seem to be doing no damage, maybe they will even help! LOL

I still have fingers crossed for Christmas/NYE buddage, probably the result of an early harvest for poor, skimpy Gladys. Not that I'd give up on her but, I'd always planned to experiment with flowering times, eh? LOL I wonder how much BHO she would make? Having cured is not a prerequisite to making BHO, is it?

I wonder how long Ruthie will take to re-veg? I'm tempted to do a Hempy Sog. Hmmmmm, I've got a dairy crate; I wonder how many singles would fit in there? A guy could just dunk the whole crate when it came to watering.

LST fucking rocks, though. The ability to force a plant to produce dozens of tops is fascinating.

It all just makes me salivate. I had no idea it was so much fun! :weed:


:leaf:
 

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Rambunctious

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Another "triple-nuted" (1 Tbsp. FNB) gallon of aerated tap water between the 2 girls today.

I found a roll of old metal roofing, already white on one side. When the lights come on tomorrow, I'll make a more effective reflector inspired by tutorials here and there. The inside-out flex duct helped for awhile but, the girls need something bigger now. :hump:

Confession: I've been tasting Gladys. When a branch outgrows the light, I take it, dry in in the microwave, remove everything but the stem and stuff it in my pipe. Tastes like ass and not exactly potent but, I could swear there's a little sativa "up" there. I should try a water cure with the next one. Or, I should raise the shelf, and the light, and the other plant. Nah, Gladie needs pruning and Ruthie isn't stretching anymore. And I thought I'd have trouble smoking my babies! LOL :joint::joint::joint:

ETA: I found a place to put the little clones under 24/7 blue CFL 23w so they can ramp up to the flowering phase. This is where Ruthie can go to recover and make more babies. I'm thinking I'll sacrifice Gladie to experiment with some sort of oil.

If there's anything left of her. Bwha ha ha ha ha haaaaa...
 

Rambunctious

Well-Known Member
Making the reflector was easy and, as of yesterday, it has replaced the inside-out section of flexduct.

It wasn't as white on the underside as I'd have liked, so before I put it up, I took an appropriately sized piece of mylar and some strips of double-stick tape ... it ain't even close to purdy until you consider how much money and time I saved on it. :hug:
 

skizofrenik

Active Member
Wow....those are just two plants? I searched for Durban Poison because I have a seed of the same strain coming, and it seemed like the most interesting strain I have coming. Came across your journal...it's sad though, you type out these long lengthy detailed posts - and I haven't seen much of anyone even respond to much.

Regardless...if you look through my grow journal, I have a bunch of different plants going all at different stages of the game. I've only just begun trying some experiments on getting the LST down, and we've done some trials on topping plants as well. Either way, I'm interested in seeing how this poison turns out to see what I might just have ahead of me. I'm going to read through the rest of your posts, see if you got something a bit more detailed about your LST method...

Definitely looking BUSHED out though...and sexy ladies!! Good form!
 

Rambunctious

Well-Known Member
Hi, skizofrenik and thanks for stopping by. If you have any questions, fire away. It's fun to have someone to share my grow with because I've been very careful about the Rules (don't tell, don't sell, don't smell). I haven't even told other people who I know for a fact grow, too. So, welcome to the closet with me and the girls. ;-)

DP has been very good to me. Reports run from "easy to grow" to "hard to kill." Right up my alley. LOL I wondered why more people didn't grow it until I saw a journal in which it took, like, 6 months to finish. I hope it doesn't have to be that way but, we shall see. Maybe a DP vet will pop in and mentor us.

I'm totally sold on the LST method and, there's really nothing to it. My girls were only halfway 'round their pots at 7 weeks veg, but the branches filled in all the empty spaces quick! I'll stop by your journal and see what all kinda stuff you're up to.

I'm really looking forward to having completed the whole process from germinating, to harvest, to reveg, to growing from clones and learning to make odorless BHO.

Next, decriminalization and hemp industries. :wall:
 

skizofrenik

Active Member
If you don't mind...can you give me a breakdown of exactly how you went about doing the LST? It seems simple in theory, and I think I got it down pretty much...just a bit afraid I may have missed something along the way...I've had okay results thus far, but not sure I began it at the right time or really saw it through the entire way properly.

Needless to say, I haven't had the results your gals are showing!! I should be getting in all my seeds next week sometime, so believe me the DP will be going into sprout by next weekend at the latest!!! i think we're going to just maintain the same post for our journal for all growings we do in the room....just so when we're all said and done it can become somewhat of an encyclopedia of our experiences.

Again, looking fantastic!!!
 

Rambunctious

Well-Known Member
Hey thanks man for the kind words. I credit using the Hempy Buckets as much as anything. Fast, simple and clean. Me like.

Because of what I'd read about DP, I had 'em tied down as soon as I could get a good hold on 'em. To the side of the 12 oz. foam cups, I think. You counter-tie, too, don't you, skiz? And I always tied new growth as low as possible. They got so bushy I had to tie a red ribbon on the original top to keep track of it until I put them into flower. Then the focus became pulled the bases of the tops into a bowl shape so the light could get to them all better.

I'm so freaking pumped that Ruthie is just so bushy! Gladys will be a happy memory though. Oh! After I thinned a couple of her skinny little sticks, I stuck 'em in a jar of water. There will be enough for a joint. Hell, it's as good a time as any to experiment with water curing, eh? Don't worry, there'll be enough of her left for Christmas. Maybe. :weed:

I just remembered I need to run a couple of last minute errands. HAPPY THANKSGIVING, everyone! :joint::hump:


"The more you read, the better the weed." ~ quazi
 
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