1st Grow 9x Euforia DP Recirculating DWC *PICS* Criticize and Advise PLEASE!

+rep please!

PLEASE do not say "Nute Burn"
Please do not say "Light is too close"

-My light far from the plants (22 inches) and it averages 74 degrees.
-I fed them twice during the feed, I do believe it was a little much so I want to state clearly that I KNOW I OVERFED THEM.

PPM: 510
PH: 6.0
Water temp: 58 F

3 plants have these symptoms, the 3 plants with the leaves curling inward and the black stain all have developed root systems in the water inside the buckets, the other 5 plants do not have root systems and/or very little roots in the water, I believe the root system plays a significant role in the symptoms these plants are showing.

I just want to see if there are any other reasons as to why the plants could look like this, PH problems? humidity?

I have no idea what the problem is, my first assumptions were nute burn and/or light too close, maybe lockout or ph problems? cuz only the plants with the roots in this water have this problem so it must have to deal with the water itself.

The water PH is either off

OR

The nutrients are too much or too concentrated for this strain

Hopefully other knowledgable people will comment on this thread as for I am not too certain what exactly the problem is.

Goodluck

Not sure exactly. Looks like possibly Potassium or Magnesium deficiency maybe. I agree all those nutes may be necessary, but I have always been told to keep it simple. If you start overthinking everything into such fine detail, then you start to overlook the simple obvious things. They do seem to look better in those pics than in the earlier pics IMO. Good Luck!

what kind of light is that? the diamond plate hood is fucking sweet!

Great looking setup man, sorry to hear the plants are suffering slightly. I think the problem is exactly what you thought, over watered and a little hi on the nutes. The ones that are looking wilty just leave alone. sitting in their bucket is all they need. Also 500 ppm might be too hi for your plants. All strains are different and require a different amount of nutes so i can't speak of your strain specifically, but i have 5 different varieties growing at the moment both indica and sativa all of which are around 1 foot in height. My ppm was around 480 previously and i had to drop it to about 320-340 cuz my girls were getting a bit of nute burn. So ya, cut back on any topfeeding, just let them soak up what they need from their bucket, and try to lower your ppm. then just wait a few days and see what the new growth is doing. I would also recommend going with a simpler nute mix. Good luck and keep us updated!

The diamond reflector was made custom, its a 450 W digital ballast runs either MH/HPS, I'm actually looking to sell it because I want only 600W, PM if your interested I'll give you the rollitup member deal.

Otherexacerbater said:

Great looking setup man, sorry to hear the plants are suffering slightly. I think the problem is exactly what you thought, over watered and a little hi on the nutes. The ones that are looking wilty just leave alone. sitting in their bucket is all they need. Also 500 ppm might be too hi for your plants. All strains are different and require a different amount of nutes so i can't speak of your strain specifically, but i have 5 different varieties growing at the moment both indica and sativa all of which are around 1 foot in height. My ppm was around 480 previously and i had to drop it to about 320-340 cuz my girls were getting a bit of nute burn. So ya, cut back on any topfeeding, just let them soak up what they need from their bucket, and try to lower your ppm. then just wait a few days and see what the new growth is doing. I would also recommend going with a simpler nute mix. Good luck and keep us updated!

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I lowered ppm to 400, I've grown once before using DWC and I had the plants at 1800ppm when they were this size and they loved it, its because this strain is predominately sativa that it does not feed as much nor does it like high ppm's. Hopefully they pull through. I've just been top feeding RO water and hygrozyme because hygrozyme doesnt raise EC. Still they seem to be doing worse, maybe its the water?

Only the plants with developed root systems seem to be plagued by the twisting curling leaves and black spots

Walmart water is RO and starts with a ppm of 90, maybe there water sucks, I dont know.

have u checked temps at the reservoir, did u ever get that wand? check ec in buckets and at the res jst sum suggestions

Here's a little tip to tell if you are overfeeding or under feeding. If your PPMs raise over time (like yours, 470 to 500) you are over feeding, the plants are taking out more water than nutes causing PPMs to climb. If your PPMs drop over time you are underfeeding, the plants are taking out more nutes than water causing the PPMs to drop. If your PPM stay constant over time you are at the sweet spot, the plants are taking out the same amount of water and nutes.

Those curled leaves looks like heat stress to me, but it's obviously not if your room only gets to 74 F at the canopy. I don't know what plants look like when they are forced to endure water that is too cold, as I've never had that problem (I always have the inverse problem, water that is too hot). But that may be your problem, because your water is quite a bit too cold, like 10 degrees. You want a water temp of 68 F, plus or minus 2 degrees. 58 F is way too cold, and honestly I am surprised your sativas haven't keeled over dead from such cold water. Or maybe that 58 was just a typo and you meant 68.

Mate, you said you were using black plastic sheeting to block light or something? Do some research into offgassing, I had a tent with white plastic inside that killed anything green put inside it. I wasted lord knows how much time before I stumbled on the explanation.

Basically certain types of plastic when heated give off toxic gases. You may want to make sure your area is free of anything PVC.

I use tons of PVC in my grow and I have no problems with 'toxic gas'. My day time ambient temps in the veg room are 90 degrees. PVC is made for use with drinking water. You can stockpile PVC next to your grow and have no problems. Now wet PVC glue is a different story.

Stoner Smurf said:

Here's a little tip to tell if you are overfeeding or under feeding. If your PPMs raise over time (like yours, 470 to 500) you are over feeding, the plants are taking out more water than nutes causing PPMs to climb. If your PPMs drop over time you are underfeeding, the plants are taking out more nutes than water causing the PPMs to drop. If your PPM stay constant over time you are at the sweet spot, the plants are taking out the same amount of water and nutes.

Those curled leaves looks like heat stress to me, but it's obviously not if your room only gets to 74 F at the canopy. I don't know what plants look like when they are forced to endure water that is too cold, as I've never had that problem (I always have the inverse problem, water that is too hot). But that may be your problem, because your water is quite a bit too cold, like 10 degrees. You want a water temp of 68 F, plus or minus 2 degrees. 58 F is way too cold, and honestly I am surprised your sativas haven't keeled over dead from such cold water. Or maybe that 58 was just a typo and you meant 68.

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58*F-62*F is about the average temp in the controller, but this may not be 100% accurate because I am using one of those shitty pool temperature bobber thingys, and the thermometer inside has already dislodged from the glue on the inside! Anyways I am waiting for the nutradip trimeter to come into the mail so I can get better readings..ontop of all this shit going on my PH meter also broke when i accidentally dipped it to far in to take a reading! So now I have to guesstimate my PH Ive read around and seem to come to the conclusion that if i start with about 7.0PH RO water and add 18 drops if GH Down it should put me at around 5.8PH now another question is 5.8 the number to always be at for Veg and Flower? I also set up a little comparison by taking out the middle plant which is the most affected and put her into an entirely seperate DWC 5 gallon w/ airstone and just RO water, hopefully this will give her a chance to clean up! The extra kick in the nuts is I got BUGS! Im thinking they are gnats? i put up some fly tape to help control them, im not sure how much this will affect the bugs, Also I took noticed that the bugs seem to be coming from the hydroton, I dint see them at all on the plants. The bugs mainly hang out in the hydroton, i noticed alot of dead bugs on the top lids as well. +Rep for all, thank you for helping me in this situation I appreciate all the compliments as well as criticism!

Is there a hydro store near, or somewhere you can get pH drops. That's what I use. Cost like $5 for a seeming lifetime supply. Who know's how many drops it take to lower things. Plus oxygen from the bubblers will raise pH.

I read you used 1800 ppms once... wow man, that's high. Not saying it wasn't working for you, but my personal opinion on nutes is the least amount to keep the plants happy is what I use. I think my ppms didn't get above 900 last grow and it turned out great. Check my journals if you want to see the final product. Never had any deficiencies and saved a lot of money not using so many nutes all the time. More is not better in my book. Less is better. Hope things work out. SOrry I couldn't be of more help.

peace

Stoner Smurf said:

I use tons of PVC in my grow and I have no problems with 'toxic gas'. My day time ambient temps in the veg room are 90 degrees. PVC is made for use with drinking water. You can stockpile PVC next to your grow and have no problems. Now wet PVC glue is a different story.

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I wouldn't quote me on it being PVC. There's lots of different types of plastic. I believe its the softeners they use that cause issues.

Fingers crossed it is a Ph issue.

Bump...Anyone got any opinions on what the BUGS could be? Also I will post some more pictures of the girls on Friday!

Oh BTW nice setup ^^

So I posted earlier that I noticed that I had these little black flying BUGS! Anyways I lifted the pots open only to find what look like dirt along the sides above the water level, I stick my figure and scrap some off and I get these tiny green and black 6 legged looking tick like! I cleaned them all of but also noticed that some along with babies were hanging in the root system! I believe that they are going through the roots up into the hydroton and flying out....I also believe the source is when i took a clone that my dad made me put in the backyard soil and replanted it to the RDWC system...I pulled out the backyard plant from the system as it was already dying and also noticed some rotting towards the base of the stem...Could this be contributing to the problems my girls are going through? Also what kind of bugs are these? Are they harmful to the plants?

Im not gonna be much help to you but it i will bump the thread again and maybe you will get some help. But my suggestion would be to flush and clean the buckets really good with bleachy water. I actually use bleach in my res instead of h2o2. In small amount of course. If you try a small amount of bleach, it MAY kill them off. IDK. Put covers over the top of the net pots. Its letting light get thru into the water. Not saying that is your problem but it could give them breeding grounds. Not sure as to why you took a soil plant and put it in hydro, but as long as it has been ok til now? And res temps should be between 65-70. Try to keep it above 65 and below 70. Anything over 75 promotes algae growth. I know algae is not your problem but every little minor thing could contribute to other problems. Maybe someone with more experience with those creatures will give you some better advice. Good Luck

I don't know how sold you are on your beneficial bacteria, but I am pretty sure zone will do a lot more to combat bugs like that. Dutch Master Zone will zap larva so I hear. Now I haven't tried it first hand because I've never had bugs in hydro yet, but I do use Zone and I have had no problem in my root balls even with terrible temps in my rez.

I am no bug expert, but I think those may be thripes (not positive). They're definitely not gnats, if they were gnats there would be larva on the roots, not fully mature bugs. Fungus gnats are one bug I do know quasi-well. Adult gnats lay eggs in your medium. The eggs hatch and the larva chow down on your roots. Once the larva turn into adult gnats they live another 13 days, this is the time they lay more eggs in your larva. Adult gnats do not eat, so the only damage adult gnats can do is lay more eggs and make more larva. But whatever they are Azamax should take care of it. I've only used Azamax in soil (for both spider mites and fungus gnats) and it worked wonderful. I've heard of people using Azamax in hydro, but you may want to double check before investing in a bottle of Azamax, it's not super cheap.