stumpjumper
Well-Known Member
Cannabis doesn't require a dark time during veg, those 6 hours of darkness is just wasted hours of growth that get spent on stretching instead.
18/6 never again
- Thread starter stumpjumper
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tomcatjones
Active Member
just because it isn't required in a C3 plant. doesnt mean it isn't beneficial.
and growth occurs AT night. not while the lights are on. this is true for most living creatures. plants for sure and this is true for the buds as well, they plump at night, not during the day when the plant is focusing on gathering energy.
Light is kinda like nutes - it may be present but the plant can only use so much at one time. all photosynthesis stops at night and the plant has the energy to focus all on growth.
...stumperjumper i feel you are focusing on the plant above ground a bit too much.
at night your roots will be still growing like crazy if not faster here... btw this is why i tend to stay with a dark period. this is also one of the contributing factors as to why your yield will have increased. plants may stay bushier and there may be less growth, but growth occurs faster and healthier. thus increasing your yield again.
turn over rate isn't everything.
oh.. and i might have to experiment with this one..
any thoughts?
"14 hours of night and 14 hours of day
The 14 hours of night gives you 2 extra hours of high concentration cannabinol acid production (which is changed in the different THC components we are looking for , size of buds and quality). the cannabinol acid is only produced at night and starts very slowly, increases with the hours of night so with a 12/12 you're ending the process when it begins to be very productive.... Add 2 more hours and you will notice the reaction very quickly!
Then and to make it simple, the cannabinol acid we are playing with is getting changed into THC thanks to UV during day time. The UV still have to penetrate the plant to change the loads of cannabinol acid you have been creating so the day time should be about the same as night time.
With this 28 hours cycle, you are going to get real better results than any 24 hours cycle, faster (you will notice it the first week), higher yield, same quality if not better... in fact everything!"
st0wandgrow
Well-Known Member
If growth occurs at night, how do you explain the fact that my plants grow the entire time they are in vegative growth, with absolutely no dark (night) periods?
Again I give 8 hrs of dark stretching has not been a factor what so ever. I also have experience with salt water coral and the like. I learned that intense light over a shorter period is better than a dim light over a longer period. I also learned that blue light will penatrate deeper than red. I feel stretching is an energy recieved factor not a hours of light factor.
gladstoned
Well-Known Member
I recently read an article in Skunks 50th issue that says both are wrong. I have stated before that the average grower doesn't even veg that long to begin with and then flip to 12/12 so it's a much to do about nothing, but I am going to copy from this article just like in school. And see what you guys think about it. It's an article in Skunk w/ Joe Pietri. He says:
I am discredited by canna industry for my exposure of an industry created by fraud, lies, and deception. A prime example is 12-1 photoperiodic control short night duration. To put it in simple terms, if the flower industry went by cannabis grow books, your Mother's Day bouquet would cost you over a thousand bucks. 18-6/12-12 light schedule of 24 hours on in veg. are fraudulent thoeries that have artificially inflated the price of cannabis. If you tally the amount of money paid to the status quo, which owns the power companies, it would amount to billions. They taxed growers and the growers did not realize it until they saw 12-1 work. All the books state that you need at least fourteen hours of light to stay in veg. using only seven hours of light, or by using a strobe light, while still getting outstanding growth.
If there is any truth to this, I am much more interested in this than 18/6 or 24/0 or 20/4 or 23/1.
Has anyone tried 12-1? It may be confusing at first, but I had a little trouble learning to roll a joint, and that paid off pretty good.
I am discredited by canna industry for my exposure of an industry created by fraud, lies, and deception. A prime example is 12-1 photoperiodic control short night duration. To put it in simple terms, if the flower industry went by cannabis grow books, your Mother's Day bouquet would cost you over a thousand bucks. 18-6/12-12 light schedule of 24 hours on in veg. are fraudulent thoeries that have artificially inflated the price of cannabis. If you tally the amount of money paid to the status quo, which owns the power companies, it would amount to billions. They taxed growers and the growers did not realize it until they saw 12-1 work. All the books state that you need at least fourteen hours of light to stay in veg. using only seven hours of light, or by using a strobe light, while still getting outstanding growth.
If there is any truth to this, I am much more interested in this than 18/6 or 24/0 or 20/4 or 23/1.
Has anyone tried 12-1? It may be confusing at first, but I had a little trouble learning to roll a joint, and that paid off pretty good.
stumpjumper
Well-Known Member
You get more stretch with 18/6 than you would under 24/0. It might not be substantial, but it is what it is.
tomcatjones
Active Member
stumper... what what the difference in temps between your night and day?
-this among many other factors contribute more before the light itself causing any stretching. since i figure low light isn't your issue *which would cause stretching. just a dark period, wont cause your plant to stretch.. if anything, most articles i have read all tend to say that with dark period your plants will stay bushier, larger root balls and healthier because of it
"Plant internodal length is directly related to the difference between day and night temperatures – the warmer your day cycle is as compared to your night cycle, the greater your internode length will be. The opposite also holds true; the closer your day and night temperatures, the shorter your internodes will be."
once again the hormonal shift from dark to day doesn't determine the stretching.. it is all other environmental factors to take into account once the LIGHTS GO OUT.
..so yeah maybe your plants stretched at night.. but not solely because of the dark period.
-this among many other factors contribute more before the light itself causing any stretching. since i figure low light isn't your issue *which would cause stretching. just a dark period, wont cause your plant to stretch.. if anything, most articles i have read all tend to say that with dark period your plants will stay bushier, larger root balls and healthier because of it
"Plant internodal length is directly related to the difference between day and night temperatures – the warmer your day cycle is as compared to your night cycle, the greater your internode length will be. The opposite also holds true; the closer your day and night temperatures, the shorter your internodes will be."
once again the hormonal shift from dark to day doesn't determine the stretching.. it is all other environmental factors to take into account once the LIGHTS GO OUT.
..so yeah maybe your plants stretched at night.. but not solely because of the dark period.
st0wandgrow
Well-Known Member
Can you explain further the 12/1 schedule? I'm a little confused over this.
Do I need to smoke a bowl first?
stumpjumper
Well-Known Member
Maybe, my days run mid 70's night's mid-low 60's
Timmahh
Well-Known Member
to give you an idea of my statement that light makes a HUGE differance. Here is a pic of a girl (PE) i have in veg...
Take note of the node spacing from the top of my hand, and go up, and compare with the nodal spacing from the top of my hand (just above where i have held the limb) and down.
only differance between the top and bottom is light type.
the bottom areas was all grown under a 400w CMH. the upper area is new growth under a 2 bulb 4 ft shop light with 2 grow lights in it, and a 3 CFLs (2 6500s and a 5400).
you can see the new upper growth has quite a bit more spaceing between the nodes than it has down lower. the CMH has way more penetration power. the plants then dont need to work to get to the light, as the light is getting to them.
this is where many get stretch from.... when i flip (under all CMH ) from 18/6 to 12/12 for bloom, i do see a small bit of stretch but its totally inline with the plants natural change to flower production..... as far as any stretch in veg. it has a lot to do with penetration, light spectrum, and conditions.
Take note of the node spacing from the top of my hand, and go up, and compare with the nodal spacing from the top of my hand (just above where i have held the limb) and down.
only differance between the top and bottom is light type.
the bottom areas was all grown under a 400w CMH. the upper area is new growth under a 2 bulb 4 ft shop light with 2 grow lights in it, and a 3 CFLs (2 6500s and a 5400).
you can see the new upper growth has quite a bit more spaceing between the nodes than it has down lower. the CMH has way more penetration power. the plants then dont need to work to get to the light, as the light is getting to them.
this is where many get stretch from.... when i flip (under all CMH ) from 18/6 to 12/12 for bloom, i do see a small bit of stretch but its totally inline with the plants natural change to flower production..... as far as any stretch in veg. it has a lot to do with penetration, light spectrum, and conditions.
gladstoned
Well-Known Member
I saw enough to take note to look into this further. I am in the middle of 1,000 things and I want to set these tents up and try it. It is basically manipulating light schedules but you need to constantly alter your timer. Maybe you are actually manipulating your dark cycles? Fuck, I don't know yet. But I will try it real real soon and I will post it for sure. Hopefully by the end of next week I can take a few days and dive into it. I don't want to tell you a bunch of bullshit.Can you explain further the 12/1 schedule? I'm a little confused over this.
Do I need to smoke a bowl first?
To be perfectly honest with you, someone was supposed to jump in and explain it by now. lol. I was hoping. I will type the other paragraph from him talking about it, while I burn one and we'll see what anyone says.
tomcatjones
Active Member
to give you an idea of my statement that light makes a HUGE differance. Here is a pic of a girl (PE) i have in veg...
Take note of the node spacing from the top of my hand, and go up, and compare with the nodal spacing from the top of my hand (just above where i have held the limb) and down.
only differance between the top and bottom is light type.
the bottom areas was all grown under a 400w CMH. the upper area is new growth under a 2 bulb 4 ft shop light with 2 grow lights in it, and a 3 CFLs (2 6500s and a 5400).
you can see the new upper growth has quite a bit more spaceing between the nodes than it has down lower. the CMH has way more penetration power. the plants then dont need to work to get to the light, as the light is getting to them.
this is where many get stretch from.... when i flip (under all CMH ) from 18/6 to 12/12 for bloom, i do see a small bit of stretch but its totally inline with the plants natural change to flower production..... as far as any stretch in veg. it has a lot to do with penetration, light spectrum, and conditions.
plausible. but i have many girls under 6 t8's both sides of the specturm (4 daylight and then 2 reds)
-and most of my node spacing is very close together save for the power kushes which tend to be on the spindlier side.
ZebsMeds13
Member
I personally like a 24/0 lighting for clones cause the girls really like it, but when growing from seed, 18/6 is the preferred light cycle. Through reading and my own experience, I get preflowers sooner on a 18/6 cycle.... Which in return allows you to flower sooner.... But this is all personal preferrence.
gladstoned
Well-Known Member
2nd paragraph from Skunk article on 12/1 light schedule:
Grow books written in the past twenty-five years are flawed, all you need to do to see it yourself is switch to 12-1, or buy Paul V. Nelson book, Greenhouse Management and Operation Fooling the circadian rhythm of flowering plants is a standard procedure in the flower industry; it's how your mother's day bouquet is ready on time. 18-6, 12-12 or twenty-four hours on make no botanical sense, no farming sense, and the cost of production would be too high. A tomato would cost you a hundred dollars to produce. The fact is that cannabis, like all flowering plants does the growing in veg. when resting in the dark period. The minute you switch to 12-1 the plants tell you themselves they are happier, and you save 50% on your production costs. I have taken 12-1 to seven hours of light only to keep in veg., which cuts the production costs to 75%. This information isn't in grow books, and flower industry standards are kept out, replaced by cockamamie light schedules that only make the power companies and the ones in the canna industry who supply the equipment, rich.
Then he goes on about crazy bullshit rumors from a few decades ago or something like that. Anyway, I am not down fucking up my whole garden, but I think this deserves a second look. I didn't edit this so if I have like ten words in a row that don't make sense, sorry. lol
Grow books written in the past twenty-five years are flawed, all you need to do to see it yourself is switch to 12-1, or buy Paul V. Nelson book, Greenhouse Management and Operation Fooling the circadian rhythm of flowering plants is a standard procedure in the flower industry; it's how your mother's day bouquet is ready on time. 18-6, 12-12 or twenty-four hours on make no botanical sense, no farming sense, and the cost of production would be too high. A tomato would cost you a hundred dollars to produce. The fact is that cannabis, like all flowering plants does the growing in veg. when resting in the dark period. The minute you switch to 12-1 the plants tell you themselves they are happier, and you save 50% on your production costs. I have taken 12-1 to seven hours of light only to keep in veg., which cuts the production costs to 75%. This information isn't in grow books, and flower industry standards are kept out, replaced by cockamamie light schedules that only make the power companies and the ones in the canna industry who supply the equipment, rich.
Then he goes on about crazy bullshit rumors from a few decades ago or something like that. Anyway, I am not down fucking up my whole garden, but I think this deserves a second look. I didn't edit this so if I have like ten words in a row that don't make sense, sorry. lol
gladstoned
Well-Known Member
- The 12-1 lighting schedule is as follows 12 hours lights on, 5.5 lights off, 1-hour lights on, 5.5 lights off, and repeat schedule. The 1 hour on in between off period fools the plants that stay in vegetative growth state! Your immediate savings are 5 hours in energy costs daily, as well as your bulbs and equipment lasting longer. But how do the plants react to this lighting schedule?
You see immediate growth response from your plants, they are happy from the added rest time. By day 14 the plants tripled in size. The plants are bushy with twice as many bud sites without topping or bending, In fact when you top and stretch your plants out, you get many more bud sites than you would have had under 18-6 using same procedure of topping and stretching plant, your growing bigger and better and faster.
So your saving 5 hours daily in energy costs, as well as your excellerated growth pattern which also saves you time and energy and equipment use.
In the flowering stage, never use 12-12, start your flowering period at 11 hours on 13 hours off. When your are growing outdoors each day you get less and less sun light, you should copy the way the sun acts naturally in your indoor grow. So first 2 weeks of flower you go 11 on 13 off, the next 2 weeks you go down to 10.5 on 13.5 off, next 2 weeks 10 on 14 off, next two weeks 9.5 on 14.5 off and the last weeks of flower you should be at 9 hours on and 15 hours off. You’ll get bigger and better buds by copying the way the sun light works on cannabis outdoors.
Cannabis is an outdoor plant and you should copy the way it grows outdoors indoors. The only thing that 18-6, and then 12-12 lighting schedule's do is make the energy companies rich as well as the people who sell lights and equipment, the more you use the more you spend. 12-1 lighting schedule is a more natural way to grow indoors and you well have the best results you have ever had and save as much as 50% in energy costs
str8upmenace420
Active Member
every day i cut the lights 30 minutes less so by the time they go into flowering theyll be at 12/12 plus it replicates the sun more