240 Watts All White LED Grow Northern Lights

Slipon

Well-Known Member
well some clever person posted this ;)

LED_Tomato_Tabel3.jpg

a even more clever one saved it :D

and from what I have read numerous places, weed only need 10-20% Blue light doing flowering, IMO its a balance, as I now with my 20% white/blue Vs Red/farered see way better results then with my 2100K 600W HPS alone, but I still have a hugh majority of Red´s

I have been thinking about making a DIY fixture with all white`s for flowering
and I would probably go with 3/4 WW (2500-3000K) and 1/4 NW (5000-6000K)
 

PetFlora

Well-Known Member
^^ I have seen similar charts (plus good work of others on RIU) and have tailored both my led and HOT5 bulb arrangements accordingly
 

guod

Well-Known Member
well some clever person posted this ;)
...

I have been thinking about making a DIY fixture with all white`s for flowering
and I would probably go with 3/4 WW (2500-3000K) and 1/4 NW (5000-6000K)
with a combo of 3WW and 1NW your are able to get one of the number in that table?
 

Scotch089

Well-Known Member
Yep.. its about damn time guod came around!

Could anyone else support the theory that it is not ONLY whites that cause the extra trich production compared to HIDs? I have seen this under all of my led's, including straight R and B's
 

stardustsailor

Well-Known Member
Yep.. its about damn time guod came around!

Could anyone else support the theory that it is not ONLY whites that cause the extra trich production compared to HIDs? I have seen this under all of my led's, including straight R and B's
It's not the whites doing that .....
It's the blue dies underneath ,doing that ....
....Samewise as the blue leds in a R/B led panel....
 

guod

Well-Known Member
It's not the whites doing that .....
It's the blue dies underneath ,doing that ....
....Samewise as the blue leds in a R/B led panel....
the Z-scheme and the reaction centers of the Photosynthetic apparatus tells a complete other story
 

stardustsailor

Well-Known Member
the Z-scheme and the reaction centers of the Photosynthetic apparatus tells a complete other story
?

Yeah ......

But ...but ....

.....
Can you be more specific about what the Z-scheme and the reaction centers of the Photosynthetic apparatus tell
about trichome production and it's relation with blue wls ?

I do not seem to get it ....

Trichome production probably is the result of photoprotective mechanism(s) against high -energy photons ,
while the Z redox scheme and reaction centers ,have to do exclusively with the mechanism of turning light into chemical energy ....
( Known as photosynthesis ...)

Except If I'm missing something here ....

?

Could anyone else support the theory that it is not ONLY whites that cause the extra trich production compared to HIDs? I have seen this under all of my led's, including straight R and B's
 

guod

Well-Known Member
?

Yeah ......

But ...but ....

.....
Can you be more specific about what the Z-scheme and the reaction centers of the Photosynthetic apparatus tell
about trichome production and it's relation with blue wls ?

I do not seem to get it ....

Trichome production probably is the result of photoprotective mechanism(s) against high -energy photons ,
while the Z redox scheme and reaction centers ,have to do exclusively with the mechanism of turning light into chemical energy ....
( Known as photosynthesis ...)

Except If I'm missing something here ....

?
we are talking over white leds?
It's not the whites doing that .....
It's the blue dies underneath ,doing that ....
the blue emitters works at about 440-460nm. this is in the PAR range(400-700nm)
One peak of chlorophyll a sits also at ~430nm.

i don´t believe that a plant starts in this range with photoprotective mechanisms.

the energie overhead in the blue range (400-500nm) disappears in form of heat...don´t know if that helps?
 

Fonzarelli

Active Member
4x 2700k, 4x 6000k and 4x 6500k


Gave those type of buds .....

Resinous -Pungent Smell/Aroma (I'm sure about it ..) ..
But somewhat elongated and not "full" - "thick " ...

My opininon is that your led white light contains extreme levels of Blue & green wavelengths ,thus

"maintaining " vegetative procedures while during flowering ...

Flowering will take longer ,with new bud sites (flowers ) being constantly made .
But flowers do not proceed into maturing ( Swelling ) ....

So elongated and 'spindly' bud formation occurs ...

In case you want to remain to pure white led without adding any reds whatsoever, then I can advice you that :

Keep and increase the 2700 K ones .Aim for High CRI warm whites ....
Take out all the 6000-6500 K leds and replace them with some Neutral whites 4000-5000 K ...Some ...
'Incline " your spectrum towards Amber-red-Deep red light and not towards blue / green ..
That 's in order to improve yields ...
Or ......
If you aim for a high quality bud and do not care about yield quantity ,leave it as is ....
You gonna love those buds ,when dried and smoked ..
Trust me on that one ...
Couldn't you use only Cool White LEDs if you were to supplement the Amber, Orange, Red, Deep Red and Far red that is contained in WW? It's not like WW have anything magical about them, but they do have a lot of yellow which I think plants hate. Could be wrong, but that's the impression I've gotten over the last 20 years.
 

stardustsailor

Well-Known Member
we are talking over white leds?


the blue emitters works at about 440-460nm. this is in the PAR range(400-700nm)
One peak of chlorophyll a sits also at ~430nm.

i don´t believe that a plant starts in this range with photoprotective mechanisms.

the energie overhead in the blue range (400-500nm) disappears in form of heat...don´t know if that helps?
Probably you're right about it ....
Most probably is the wls under 400nm causing plants to protect themselves ....

Still ...Do you remember at one of your grows ,that a lot of trich production was evident ,
at one really resinous plant ?
With one panel having a 460 ( orwas it 470 nm ? ) nm led at the center ....

It might be true also ,that those high -energy blue photons -if maybe so in an increased flux ,
maybe do cause some photoprotection procedures in plants ...

The light absorption of non-intact leaves ( solution of chlorophyll )
do indeed present two main peaks ,one at blue wls -one at red wls ...
( different for each Ch type ) ....

That means that Ch as a chemical molecule
( not as a part of complete PS system inside living intact leaves ...),
"favors " absorption of certain photons ,instead of others .....

So now I ask .....

That means what exactly ?

Note : Both Ch types are same almost on all higher plants ....
No matter if perennial ,annual ,winter plants ,summer plants ,etc ....

All plants have to use light -no matter of season ,part of day ,weather ,etc -
at the most efficient way in order to live and produce energy ....

At summer ,there is no need for producing heat ....
Or open stomatas is not the best water preservation policy ....
I strongly think that Ch absorption is strongly "biased " towards one peak or another ,
by the rest of PS apparatus ....

A Ch molecule ,during noon at summer ,will benefit more the plant ,
by collecting/harvesting deep red photons than blue ones ...

At winter ,probably ,the opposite,will benefit a plant ,
as it needs the heat from the blue photons and already it's metabolism is rather "slow " ..
No need of plenty photons ...

Dunno ....

We do not have a solid indication in our hands ,that rules out ,blue wls as 'oxidising' ones ...
Wls that cause damage ....
Afterall almost all accessory photoprotective pigments do present peaks at blue wls ...
Favoring absorption of these blue photons .....
And they are many such pigments for few available blue photons
......
Maybe by regulating the amount of accessory pigments ,plants 'manipulate' main PS pigments absorption peaks ......

If ,for example there's a lot of Zeaxanthin ...
Most of the( few at sunlight ) blue photons ,are absorbed by it ....
What is left over for the two chlorophylls is the rest of the photons ....

While maybe at wintertime ,there's not a accessory pigment photoprotection mechanism (s) present ....
Or is (are ) diminished ....

Larger-Wider (than red ) blue absorption peaks of chlorophylls then ,do indicate the
inclination towards collection/harvesting of blue photons ,rather than reds ...
Or at least do ,indeed, favor the absorption of blue photons ..

" A bit of energy to convert into biomass at slow metabolic rates ...
Lots of heat produced ...Cause 'outside' has pretty cold weather ....
"

Pretty complex matter I guess ...

What is known ,is that when overall light power* increases equally-evenly ,
More & more green-yellow-amber photons are being used for PS
and more photoprotective accessory pigments are being made ..
.....
Which ,most of them ,do not PROTECT from red,
amber or even yellow /green photons but from blue ones ...
.
As most of them ,do absorb light at blue/violet ( or uv ) range .....

Though ,more or less ,through a variety of different mechanisms ,
all photons do aid at biomass/chemical energy production ..


Still the ones used least for PS -when light levels are high - are the blue photons .....
Their RQE is also rather low ,compared to the rest of photons ....

That's why I insist on that blue leds ,although most efficient at led technology world ...
Are kinda "too much " in horticulture world ....
At least in our case of a plant ....

Covering them with the 'right' phosphor or 'phosphor blend' ,
presents lots of improvements towards growing plants ....
Especially mj ....
A 'summer-loving' plant .....
A plant that needs lots of light power* ,to thrive ...


( ;-) ......Some, will understand the '*' " hidden " clue ......
Mj reveals by it's energy/light power needs ,what kind of spectrum she likes .....
More or less ....)

If it was to grow lettuce ,a winter 'greenie-leafie' ,I'd rather use just red & blue leds ....
They are enough for that kind of a plant....
And indeed ,those leds ,are going to grow some high quality ,super-nutritional lettuce ..
A plant ,where flowering is considered " unwanted " ....

Depending on the variety and time of year, lettuce generally lives 65–130 days from planting to harvesting. Because lettuce that flowers (through the process known as "bolting") becomes bitter and unsaleable, plants grown for consumption are rarely allowed to grow to maturity. Lettuce flowers more quickly in hot temperatures, while freezing temperatures cause slower growth and sometimes damage to outer leaves

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lettuce
Blue leds used for high nutrient content and producing internal heat ,
Red leds for PS and
Cold temps to prevent flowering ...

That in a large scale led-assisted greenhouse ...
Not in my mj grow-tent ....
There I need lots of light power per square meter -or as much as possible-
and thus ,a whole lotta wider 'availability' of different photons ...
Blue & reds ,will still do the job ,but not as great ...
Or quite far from what is expected ,in analogy to their "efficiency",at general** ....
They seldom reach up to their 'myth' ....
Proven ,plenty of times ,by now ...

**(Usual exceptions to the rule ,have all in common ,their low/mid light power output and high quality leds and/or top bins used )
 

stardustsailor

Well-Known Member
Couldn't you use only Cool White LEDs if you were to supplement the Amber, Orange, Red, Deep Red and Far red that is contained in WW? It's not like WW have anything magical about them, but they do have a lot of yellow which I think plants hate. Could be wrong, but that's the impression I've gotten over the last 20 years.
Not all warm white leds are same ...
Some have peaks ,well 'deep' enough in the red region ( i.e. 630-640 nm peak .... )

Edit :


".....but they do have a lot of yellow which I think plants hate. Could be wrong, but that's the impression I've gotten over the last 20 years....."


Hmmm ...So....
I guess that's why mj flowers like crazy,
when under HPS lights supplemented with Low Pressure Sodium (LPS ) ...?
(some growers do claim so ... )

An impression gotten over the last 20 years or so ,by ..plenty of people ......
I'm sure you've heard something about the "bloom-boost " effect of LPS ,during flowering of mj ....
Although, still more of an impression ....


.........
 

pepperdust

Well-Known Member
thanks for the test, and showing us..

I am a believer in the future, LED is going to lean towards 90% white with a couple led in 660 / violet range maybe..
 

trueg115

Well-Known Member
So I walked into the grow room about midway through dark cycle and saw the light on, found out I had a faulty timer. I'm not sure how long this has been going on but it sure explains a lot of the longer flowering time ive experienced. I fixed it and set it up with a working timer.
 

trueg115

Well-Known Member
Here is a nice cola that has been forming under the LED. It is really beginning to flower well now that darkness is fully underway. It is huge.





 

hyroot

Well-Known Member
How far along is it now? Looks like my NL at 2 1/2 weeks. But mine are no where near as frosty at that point.
 

trueg115

Well-Known Member
Well, if you saw, my lights had some trouble for a little with turning on at night, so the plants are a little behind. I would say still in the beginning weeks as well.
 

PetFlora

Well-Known Member
thanks for the test, and showing us..

I am a believer in the future, LED is going to lean towards 90% white with a couple led in 660 / violet range maybe..
That future is NOW. In high end audio, the most popular speakers get the mid-range right- forgoing the extremes. Attempts to incorporate the extremes, often results in questionable results (tradeoffs) at a much higher cost
 
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