First Grow with 300W Advanced Platinum LED Grow Light
- Thread starter Edge7
- Start date
daveroller
Well-Known Member
I haven't been keeping up with your journal too well, but those leaves look severely starved of nutrients. If you don't focus on bringing your plants back, they're going to die. Here's some advice I can offer:
I hope this helps. We're all ambitious at first, but then we soon realize how much we need to focus on raising our first healthy plant.
- Change your res water once every week. And when you do, try to wash out the sediment on the bottom of the res with soap and water. Flush your roots with plain water (tap is probably ok). I flush them for a few hours with RO-filtered water, sometimes overnight, then replace that water with fresh water and nutes. You might need a much longer flush this time to make sure that any nutes clogging up your roots are flushed out. And remember, even while flushing you need to make sure to allow your roots to breathe. (See number 4 below.)
- When you do add nutes, start with under 500 ppm and GRADUALLY work up from there.
- Put an airstone in your res attached to an aquarium air pump. DWC won't work without it, because the roots hanging underwater need oxygen. The more airstones the better, especially if you have a big res.
- Personally, I'd set the timer on your sprayer to only spray once every half hour, not every few minutes like you're doing. Same reason as number 3. Those roots need to breathe oxygen. If they're always covered with water, they'll drown. So that would be 45 seconds on, 1800 seconds (40 units) off. I'm no expert at this type of feeding, but I do think that spraying every 5 minutes is probably too much.
- And if I were you, I'd buy some pH UP and DOWN from a hydroponics store, rather than using 20 Mule Team or whatever it's called.
I hope this helps. We're all ambitious at first, but then we soon realize how much we need to focus on raising our first healthy plant.
scarecrow99
Well-Known Member
if you have enough space you can try to tranplant a plant (the worst one)in a soil mix and see if it gets better.
Good luck
Good luck
daveroller
Well-Known Member
I might have missed something, but do you have an airstone in your res, Edge? I think your res is really big, so you probably need multiple air stones in there to make enough bubbles to oxygenate the water. Otherwise it looks like you're doing good. I can't guarantee that your plants will survive, but it's worth trying. You'd be amazed at some of the plants I've brought back from the dead, from root rot to dropping a light panel on one. Weeds are pretty resilient. Good luck, bud.
No, I'm not using any air stones. I've read that air stones really don't add to the oxygenation of the water supply which is more dependent on agitation of the tub surface area as the water droplets hit the surface and colder water temperature carrying more oxygen. 20 Mule Team Borax is chemically identical to pH up in Hydro stores at a fraction of the cost. I do have hydro pH down albeit in powder form. I also think the drifting up of the nutrient ppms may be the settling of the nutrients in the tub?
daveroller
Well-Known Member
Ok, I don't know anything about 20 Mule Team Borax, but I'll take your word for that. But I think you got a bum steer about oxygenation of your res water. Droplets of water hitting the surface won't be enough. When you do DWC, the roots are going to hang down deep in the water. They'll need lots of oxygen deep in there. There's no way that the splashing on the surface will get much oxygen down where your roots will need it. So you really can't do DWC without an air pump and airstone(s). The good thing is that they aren't too expensive. I think I only paid $30 for mine at a pet store. Your plants will be much happier with more O2 in their root zones.
I'm not only doing a DWC. My sprayers are oxygenating the water more than air stones ever could. I'm looking into a wave maker to stir up the nutrients and keeping the reservoir water moving...but I appreciate your input.
http://www.uk420.com/boards/index.php?showtopic=263773
http://www.uk420.com/boards/index.php?showtopic=263773
All better now. All the new growth is nice and green. pH is at 5.8 with nutes at 535 ppm. I will be gradually increasing to 700 ppm as my target . i think I should be FIMing now. I'm going to see if my clones establish roots and in a couple of weeks go into 12/12 while keeping the 3 healthiest plant strains as mothers. Thanks for the advice, guys.
daveroller
Well-Known Member
Ok, I was just trying to think of everything I could that might help. It's possible that your method could work... I just haven't seen any growers attempt DWC without using an air pump somehow... so I'm still very skeptical. I hope you're not depending solely on that blog post for your information. A better source to put your money on would be a journal on this site by someone who uses the same technique successfully.
Anyway, they are looking better, but you'll have to keep babying them for a while. I still wouldn't touch them until they start looking healthy. They're on the right track now, but I don't think they're fit to be cutting away at yet.
Scotch089
Well-Known Member
Theres a huge misunderstanding, that I dont quite understand either, but oxygenating the solution can be as simple as a waterfall effect in NFT, depending on the EXTENT of aeration is where limitations come in. Edge is misting, at any size micron- I think thats pretty good O2'ing,
That being said, I still think a pump/stones in your res (or in recirc. or ebb/flow in your MAIN res) O2'ing things is important.
Anyways, I have read, and talked to shop owners, who are currently testing this, and they have said the science behind O2'ing is in the agitation of the SURFACE AREA of the Solution... where O2 releases from the bubbles created from stones/pumps and agitates under the surface, and usually under the roots.
They decided to test this with a standard water pump you would use for feed lines, stuck it on the side of the res/tote and created a kind of current that circulated the solution completely around, and across two airstones on the long sides of the Res. O2'ing on the way around. Seeing if results improve.
I tried it with an extra pump I had lying around and my temps went through the roof and said fuck it, my O2 is just fine..
NOW the huge debate comes in to whether which is more important: The Slash, or The Agitation.
Basically what it comes back to is implementing both methods (if not all of them- Topfeed, aero, dwc=badass) as best you can for your desgin..
Things are looking brighter Edge but I would keep that ppm low for now. <500, even under 300. I promise they wont shrivel up. ha
And they are not in the mood to be FIM'd, you want to wait to get past all this lockout.
Good luck.
That being said, I still think a pump/stones in your res (or in recirc. or ebb/flow in your MAIN res) O2'ing things is important.
Anyways, I have read, and talked to shop owners, who are currently testing this, and they have said the science behind O2'ing is in the agitation of the SURFACE AREA of the Solution... where O2 releases from the bubbles created from stones/pumps and agitates under the surface, and usually under the roots.
They decided to test this with a standard water pump you would use for feed lines, stuck it on the side of the res/tote and created a kind of current that circulated the solution completely around, and across two airstones on the long sides of the Res. O2'ing on the way around. Seeing if results improve.
I tried it with an extra pump I had lying around and my temps went through the roof and said fuck it, my O2 is just fine..
NOW the huge debate comes in to whether which is more important: The Slash, or The Agitation.
Basically what it comes back to is implementing both methods (if not all of them- Topfeed, aero, dwc=badass) as best you can for your desgin..
Things are looking brighter Edge but I would keep that ppm low for now. <500, even under 300. I promise they wont shrivel up. ha
And they are not in the mood to be FIM'd, you want to wait to get past all this lockout.
Good luck.
daveroller
Well-Known Member
Thanks for shedding light on this aeration issue, Scotch. I don't think I've heard of this before and I haven't personally seen any DWC grows that don't include an air pump. It's entirely possible that they exist and I just haven't seen them, though. (I'm not a big reader.) So a Waterfarm, a recirculating Hempy Bucket, an aeroponic system like Edge's and my system all cause some splashing on the surface of the res water, which apparently is very good. And an airstone adds to the oxygenation beyond what's caused by surface agitation? Is that what you were saying?
One other thing I'm not clear about is why did adding a water pump inside your res cause your temps to climb???
By the way, Edge, this isn't anything terrible, but I noticed that your temp is 78 degrees. That's just a tad high in case you don't already know, especially for Indica-dominant plants, which it looks like you have. I think the ideal temp for them is around 70-75°. No biggie, but I'd feel remiss if I didn't ever tell you. What can help is a little fan breeze, which is also very good to help your plants develop strong branches. I use PC fans. You can see them in my journal. The only tricky thing with them is figuring out how to power em. Otherwise, a small desk fan works great. Take care, bud.
Too late, I fimmed the plants last night! I think also my clones are taking as they are not wilting after a week. Another week and I will transport them into a cloner spray mini-tent for a week and try to flower them with the smaller plants, keeping the 3 healthiest for mothers. I have 3 strains, white widow, northern lights and aurora but I've mixed them up so I don't really know which is which. I'll just try to match them to their strains as they mature and flower?
I've done a ton of reading on various sites via google and the issue of oxygenation I believe, is summed up with emphasis on cooler water temperatures and agitation of the surface area. I keep the tub water cool by adding frozen water bottles daily. There is a school of though that air stones do very little to agitate the surface area of the tub water and possibly detrimental as they introduce pathogens into the water reservoir. In this thread, the grower measures DO and concludes that, "Airstones can act as sponges for airborne bacteria deliver by the air pump, this greatly increasing pathogen risk. I haven't changed my reservoir in 5 weeks now am certain with airstones I would not have got away with that". :
http://www.uk420.com/boards/index.php?showtopic=263773
I try to listen to my plants more. I only add nutrients when the nutrient level drops. If it's rising or level, the plants are getting what they need. When the ppm level drops, then the plants require more nutes. After the flush, I started out at 250 for a day, then upped it to 400 ppm. In subsequent days, I only add nutes after a fall off of ppm level. After a pull back from 555 to 530, I upped it to 600 where it has been level.
Dave, yeah I only have the fan on during my spraying cycle 1- 45 sec on, 7 -45 sec off. I need to increase it but I only have a Vornado fan which is kind of loud. I need to replace it with a quieter fan.
I've done a ton of reading on various sites via google and the issue of oxygenation I believe, is summed up with emphasis on cooler water temperatures and agitation of the surface area. I keep the tub water cool by adding frozen water bottles daily. There is a school of though that air stones do very little to agitate the surface area of the tub water and possibly detrimental as they introduce pathogens into the water reservoir. In this thread, the grower measures DO and concludes that, "Airstones can act as sponges for airborne bacteria deliver by the air pump, this greatly increasing pathogen risk. I haven't changed my reservoir in 5 weeks now am certain with airstones I would not have got away with that". :
http://www.uk420.com/boards/index.php?showtopic=263773
I try to listen to my plants more. I only add nutrients when the nutrient level drops. If it's rising or level, the plants are getting what they need. When the ppm level drops, then the plants require more nutes. After the flush, I started out at 250 for a day, then upped it to 400 ppm. In subsequent days, I only add nutes after a fall off of ppm level. After a pull back from 555 to 530, I upped it to 600 where it has been level.
Dave, yeah I only have the fan on during my spraying cycle 1- 45 sec on, 7 -45 sec off. I need to increase it but I only have a Vornado fan which is kind of loud. I need to replace it with a quieter fan.
daveroller
Well-Known Member
Edge, I hope you don't follow _Tutu_'s example of not changing your reservoir for 5 weeks! Here's the sediment I got in my res after one week:
It depends on the size of your res to some extent. With a really big res you can probably get away with 2 weeks between changes, just topping up your nutes to a certain ppm level. But the really successful growers I've followed change it every week to get the crud out. We like to pamper our plants.
Eraserhead
Well-Known Member
I never go more than 10 days before I change my res. And I always use at least one air stone per 2-3 gallons of solution (based on the stones and pumps that I have/use).
When you get a bunch of caca at the bottom of your res, you know you should have changed it at least a few days before it appeared.
Your plant is looking mighty fine otherwise Dave. It looks to be enjoying life....
When you get a bunch of caca at the bottom of your res, you know you should have changed it at least a few days before it appeared.
Your plant is looking mighty fine otherwise Dave. It looks to be enjoying life....
Edge, I hope you don't follow _Tutu_'s example of not changing your reservoir for 5 weeks! Here's the sediment I got in my res after one week:
It depends on the size of your res to some extent. With a really big res you can probably get away with 2 weeks between changes, just topping up your nutes to a certain ppm level. But the really successful growers I've followed change it every week to get the crud out. We like to pamper our plants.
daveroller
Well-Known Member
You're right, I wanted to change it a couple days earlier, but we had company staying over for xmas. I still have to hide my hobby from my stepdaughter in my state.
You're right, I wanted to change it a couple days earlier, but we had company staying over for xmas. I still have to hide my hobby from my stepdaughter in my state.
Funny how life goes in circles. When you were a kid you had to hide your stash from the adults. Now as an adult, you have to hide your stash from the kids, haha!
daveroller
Well-Known Member
LOL! I never thought of it that way, but you're right.
daveroller
Well-Known Member
It's that wonderful Area 51 light that made it grow so well! I never had a plant nearly as healthy and lush as this one. No more heat problems that I had to always fight when I used fluorescents. Leaves are perfect as far as I can tell. Even the inner leaves are nice and green. Hats off to the manufacturer.
Eraserhead
Well-Known Member
To quote Mark Henry, "That's what I do".
It's that wonderful Area 51 light that made it grow so well! I never had a plant nearly as healthy and lush as this one. No more heat problems that I had to always fight when I used fluorescents. Leaves are perfect as far as I can tell. Even the inner leaves are nice and green. Hats off to the manufacturer.
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