GOP fiscal cliff counter offer: raise taxes on the middle class

[canndo]

It matters not who gets stuck with the tax increases, the middle class and the lower class will be the ones paying for it in either case. When they tax me a bunch, I just raise prices on my product to make up the difference.

Sure, unless your competition does not. So you say when you are personaly taxed, you pass your personal tax burden on to your customers - that is not always successful.

 

[canndo]

Obama proposed revenue increases of 1.6T in his budget that nobody voted for but was still his proposal. Are you willing to go on record that the middle class will not see taxes raised in this budget?

You aren't describing what those taxes are and upon what they are levied but you are simply claiming that because it might happen, or you do not believe that it can't, it is fact.

 

[nontheist]

You are correct, Dems should have surrendered to the fact that Republicans are perfectly capable of holding the country hostage and are perfectly willing to destroy the economy if they don't get their way. We should have elected Romney knowing that at least then, Republicans could have an easier time passing legislation that would effectively do the same thing, bring us into another recession with austerity measures that haven't worked anywhere else and sacraficing the middle class on the altar of tax breaks for the rich.

Hold the country hostage? What the fuck are you talking about? The auto cuts were a bipartisan agreement to fix the deficit, shrinking government and increasing taxes is a good way to do this yes? Damn the whine fest that is taking place when you libtards actually have to put your money where your mouth is you act like it's the end of the world. The irony is laughable.

 

[canndo]

Hold the country hostage? What the fuck are you talking about? The auto cuts were a bipartisan agreement to fix the deficit, shrinking government and increasing taxes is a good way to do this yes? Damn the whine fest that is taking place when you libtards actually have to put your money where your mouth is you act like it's the end of the world.

yes, hold the country hostage. "If you do not play the way we want - then the middle class will have to pay" "If you do not comply then we will bring the economy to its knees (again)" Either you extend the tax cuts you are willing to give the middle class to the rich, or no one gets a cut"

 

[nontheist]

yes, hold the country hostage. "If you do not play the way we want - then the middle class will have to pay" "If you do not comply then we will bring the economy to its knees (again)" Either you extend the tax cuts you are willing to give the middle class to the rich, or no one gets a cut"

All I am hearing is "I want big government but I want someone else to pay for it"

 

[ginwilly]

You aren't describing what those taxes are and upon what they are levied but you are simply claiming that because it might happen, or you do not believe that it can't, it is fact.

We know raising taxes on people over 250k will bring in 70-80B a year. His proposal brings in 1.6Trillion. You do the math and tell me where the money is coming from and how the poor and middle class avoid it. I know this means Obama is saying one thing while doing another and this concept seems foreign to some on the left, but please entertain the possibility. Everyone's taxes are going up.

 

[canndo]

All I am hearing is "I want big government but I want someone else to pay for it"

What you are reading is that I want everyone to share in the pain of our debt and deficit. If it hurts for the little guy then the big guy should hurt a bit as well. Got a problem with that?

 

[doublejj]

We spend more on defence every year than all other nations of the world combined!..........Can we do without just 1 more aircraft carrier?......or a few less tanks?.............come on, really?

 

[canndo]

We know raising taxes on people over 250k will bring in 70-80B a year. His proposal brings in 1.6Trillion. You do the math and tell me where the money is coming from and how the poor and middle class avoid it. I know this means Obama is saying one thing while doing another and this concept seems foreign to some on the left, but please entertain the possibility. Everyone's taxes are going up.

We know that? you havn't said how much higher those taxes are on those making 250k. If I recall, the right is claiming that closing unnamed loopholes will bring in 800 billion. You do the math, what loopholes and how.

 

[MuyLocoNC]

If you are a farmer. You do not have any say what your prices are. Again you are full of shit

You buy everything from farmers, do you? How about shit paper? Do you buy that from farmers?

Drama's point was clear and correct. Any increase in taxes on business owners and corporations will be IMMEDIATELY transferred to the consumers. And the price increases are like a snowball rolling down a hill.

The retailer's price goes up because of his increased tax burden and because the cost from the distributor went up. Which went up because of his increased tax burden and increased cost from the manufacturer. Which went up because of his increased tax burden and the increased cost of his raw supplies. Which went up...etc

That's how it works. It's a fact. It ain't debatable. And it's the same for all the competitors, there is no escape. Own and operate a business more successful than your current venture to rent the empty space between your ears and it will become clear, even to you.

 

[ginwilly]

What you are reading is that I want everyone to share in the pain of our debt and deficit. If it hurts for the little guy then the big guy should hurt a bit as well. Got a problem with that?

So then you are actually calling for tax increases on everyone, not just the rich.

 

[MuyLocoNC]

Sure, unless your competition does not. So you say when you are personaly taxed, you pass your personal tax burden on to your customers - that is not always successful.

Yeah, I knew somebody would try the ignorant "the competition won't raise prices" angle. Like the competition has such vast profit margins that they aren't in the same boat.

 

[nontheist]

So then you are actually calling for tax increases on everyone, not just the rich.

Ah the bittersweet irony of this, seems liberal's aren't to fond of taxes after all. I guess they expected someone else to pay for it all.

 

[canndo]

We spend more on defence every year than all other nations of the world

combined!..........Can we do without just 1 more aircraft carrier?......or a few less tanks?.............come on, really?

Obama is looking to cut defense - 400 billion I think is the number but I could be wrong about that - Oh, and I have done a cursory look at the plan, and Ginwilly brings up a valid point - although I think he is confusing ten year vs single year - I think that keeping tax rates on the upper 2 percent high will bring in an expected 80 billion - a year but the 1.6 trillion is over 10 years. What I looked at doesn't explain revenue of 600 billion over 10 years from "other sources" - Gin may be right that the "other sources" could be - us.

 

[canndo]

Ah the bittersweet irony of this, seems liberal's aren't to fond of taxes after all. I guess they expected someone else to pay for it all.

I will say it again - I want the pain of dealing with something that everyone benefited from - the poor - in entitlements, the rich in low taxes for the last 12 years - spread around. Why should the rich get off with their gains scott free while the poor take the hit?

 

[canndo]

Yeah, I knew somebody would try the ignorant "the competition won't raise prices" angle. Like the competition has such vast profit margins that they aren't in the same boat.

Depends - doesn't it. It is all about the competition. If they can find a way to avoid raising their prices, then that is a problem, isn't it.

 

[DonPepe]

i mean, they have people deriding teachers for earning too much money. they have people deriding union workers for earning too much money. these things will come right back around to fuck them in the ass as these are the things that keep their wages higher too. they are effectively rooting for their own labor to be undervalued and looked down upon as well. they are actively rooting for themselves and their families to be seen as "the underclass".

they defend the unscrupulous CEO who takes advantage of a ridiculous tax deduction as a smart "job creator" (which is funny, because hiring is a thing of last resort), but if a hard working person who makes minimum wage applies for food stamps or qualifies for the EIC, that person is a moocher.

they want it harder to access birth control or abortion, then they deride that hard worker for taking food stamps to feed his kid because he should have thought ahead before having a kid he couldn't afford. meanwhile, they ignore that their hatred of things that breed job security makes it easier for their boss to fire them for no reason (or underpay or pay discriminate). they complain about "onerous and burdensome" regulations that could have prevented things like the value of their house or their 401k being cut in half.

how many of these people who complain of "onerous and burdensome" regulations boil their own water or test their own food for botulism?

hypocrite, double standard holding, often bible thumping morons who vote against their own self interest and then preach ayn rand to you all day long.

aww it's cute seeing a troll rage.

after years of trolling any actual conversation about any of these topics, and now you want to act serious.....lol have fun with that.

 

[canndo]

So then you are actually calling for tax increases on everyone, not just the rich.

I am saying that entitlements will be reduced. If taxes on corporations go up - as is being said here, the middle class will, even if their taxes do not rise, be paying a share, now won't they.

 

[nontheist]

I will say it again - I want the pain of dealing with something that everyone benefited from - the poor - in entitlements, the rich in low taxes for the last 12 years - spread around. Why should the rich get off with their gains scott free while the poor take the hit?

Scott free? Correct me if I am wrong but aren't the top 25% paying about 70% of everything? How much further would you like to imbalance this before you're happy? 90%, 95%, what? You talk as if making money is a crime because if doesn't fit your philosophy.

 

[canndo]

Scott free? Correct me if I am wrong but aren't the top 25% paying about 70% of everything? How much further would you like to imbalance this before you're happy? 90%, 95%, what? You talk as if making money is a crime because if doesn't fit your philosophy.

I said Pain - discomfort, I want to see that pain roughly distributed, I don't care how much they pay, it is little in comparison to how well they have done as a result of recent polices. I am not talking about making money as a crime - so many on the right fall back on that old litteny. Nothing wrong with making money, what is wrong is insisting that someone else bear the brunt of the current problems in this country when it was the rich that profited.