SirLancelot
Active Member
ok good point, not enough sufficient data. but I still just can't tear away from the fact that everything that begins to exist has a cause, and something can't come from nothing.
Atheists
- Thread starter Chief Walkin Eagle
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Zoltan44x
Active Member
Even if there's a god and people in this world are making money+power just by playing this stupid game,fooling us,
controlling masses, manipulating ,destroying others lifes, starting wars based on lies..
And still can get away with it..
That god doesnt have a word to say or intention to stop this bullshit.
Why would I believe in such god ?
controlling masses, manipulating ,destroying others lifes, starting wars based on lies..
And still can get away with it..
That god doesnt have a word to say or intention to stop this bullshit.
Why would I believe in such god ?
SirLancelot
Active Member
How would you handle the situation? I bet he doesn't either
Just for clarification your talking about the Christian god right?
Just for clarification your talking about the Christian god right?
Doer
Well-Known Member
But, how can you say its a fact? To me it's more courageous to say there is no "because," no answer to "why?" that is presently known. Not in science, not in Religion, and not in any other belief or practice. Some advertising copy writer said it best, I think. Why ask why? It can come from nothing but we can't yet define nothing. And if you are talking about causality in time, then you must know, at least, in quantum math, causality is not at all necessary for existance.
So, you feel a feeling, but you can't feel a fact.
Zaehet Strife
Well-Known Member
Is it not just as plausable, that existence has always existed, rather than existence spawning from nothing?
Doer
Well-Known Member
Isn't the prohibition of Moses to have no other god before the one true GOD? So, there is only one God, right? No this god or that one, no my god or yours.
God only. Not the God of the Jews vs the God of Christians vs the God of Islam. That's against the rules of the Religion, isn't it?
SirLancelot
Active Member
Don't know....
One thing that's always bugged me is the hypocrisy of religion, it's perfectly OK to believe in YOUR god but as soon as someone talks about another God it's uncompromisable and impossible!
I wish I could remember the author to this short story I read quit funny about how Aliens put humans here and have been documenting us like a reality show, the story is based around WWI and WWII talking about how good of a show it was and how the sequel was way better than the first, it was really funny I'll try and find that.
One thing that's always bugged me is the hypocrisy of religion, it's perfectly OK to believe in YOUR god but as soon as someone talks about another God it's uncompromisable and impossible!
I wish I could remember the author to this short story I read quit funny about how Aliens put humans here and have been documenting us like a reality show, the story is based around WWI and WWII talking about how good of a show it was and how the sequel was way better than the first, it was really funny I'll try and find that.
SirLancelot
Active Member
But I can't think of anything that comes out of nothing,
ahh now were getting tricky and having to deal with definitions, what exactly is existence and always existing? I thought the general consensus was that the Universe began 13.75 ± 0.11 billion years therfore the universe began.
Zaehet Strife
Well-Known Member
Yes those thoughts are correct, but you forgot about the thought of string theory, and multiple universes, which could make the "existence has always existed" theory even more plausible. Whos to say this universe is the only one?
Zaehet Strife
Well-Known Member
Heis, wherever you are, this one is for you.
SirLancelot
Active Member
Right but that's a theory, for simplicity Im just sticking to the things that we can actually observe and from my knowledge something doesn't appear from nothing.
ginjawarrior
Well-Known Member
all your doing tho is passing the question down the line. where did god come from? he couldnt have appeared from nothing...
Heisenberg
Well-Known Member
ah touche! maybe the goal isn't human life in particular but life in general including bacterias and other living single celled organisms. I think there's a general consensus among astrologists that there's billions of solar systems similar to ours that are capable of supporting life this is what I meant by the universe supporting human life
Yes it is very likely that many planets are capable of life, a few have been all but confirmed to have the correct conditions. So I accept that the universe could support much life. Since we know nothing about alien life, it could exist in such a way that if one (or more) of the cosmological constants were changed, it wouldn't matter. So while the universe may seem fine tuned for human life, it's not an observation we can make about any other life outside of earth. Other life may see it as 'broad tuning'.
And as I argued earlier, it's not really an observation we can make about human life either.
ginjawarrior
Well-Known Member
and look up quantum fluctuations stuf does appear and dissapear from seeeming nothing and thats test able
Zaehet Strife
Well-Known Member
You are absolutely correct, we have no proof of anything ever coming to being out of nothing. So wouldn't that mean... most reasonably, wouldn't it make more sense that something would have had to always exist? Hmmmm.... I don't know...
Circles...
Circles...
Heisenberg
Well-Known Member
Doer
Well-Known Member
But, why does god have to come from, or go to for that matter?
No need for gender or appearance, right? For me there is NOW. There is no sequencing necessary. As IT was in the beginning, IT is NOW and ever shall be. Word without end.
ginjawarrior
Well-Known Member
no god is necessary either infact he's superfluous and wasnt the premise that "something cant come from nothing"? you cant wave that away by denying sequencing or time NOW isnt an answerBut, why does god have to come from, or go to for that matter?
SirLancelot
Active Member
good point and I struggle with this one as well, the only argument I've ever heard on this point is that God has always existed and never "began" to exist. I find this uneasy to digest though.
Heisenberg
Well-Known Member
It would seem odd to accept perpetual existence for the question of God, and not the question of the universe. If god made the universe, he must be even more complex and fine tuned himself, meaning we wave off the 'design' of god for the same reason we question the design of the universe.
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