Water Cooled Grow Rooms

phillipchristian

New Member
Ok so .1hp=`1200BTU so 5HP is about 6 TON... Really barely enough to cool 16 lights... Id be better off with a 10HP as it would give me room to play and cool ambient as well as other things.

So just basically your saying hook it straight inline in a closed loop light system? I take it you have a a/c as backup/control in the room also?

My costs are looking a bit high with this option but it is def impressive and very straightforward.

The fresca sol at $250 a hood or $180 a icebox is still only 4-5k plus all addons, whereas this kinda starts at 10kish.. For 16 lights.

Its tough because when I first was presented with Water Cooling options we had:

Water cooled A/C's
Fresca Sols
IceBox's

I didnt think the FS or IB's could actually handle the heat from a 1000W bulb and we played with them for a while, but they basically still need venting or accesories that make water cooling kinda more of a unnesacary pain.

Does anyone know If Frescas can handle 8 1000W lights in the same room without too much more than 14kBTU of additional cooling? Assuming they are paired with good chillers.
Not sure I am understanding you but 1hp = 1 ton = 12,000btu. Depending on how you cool the lights will determine which equation you use to factor the chiller size. If you cool each light with an Ice Box it is different then if you vent the lights directly back to your air handler. When you duct it back to the air handler it's actually more efficient so you factor less tonnage of chiller.

It's not a closed system. Say you had 4 rows of 4 lights. You would put a fan on the furthest one in that row (4 fans) to pull air from the room and then push it through the 4 lights in that row. At the end of the rows you would have 2 "Y" duct connectors to reduce the ducting lines from 4 to 2 and from 8" lines to 10" lines. Then you would reduce it from 2 to 1 and from 10" to 12" lines. Then you would connect it to the plenum on the air handler. The fans at the beginning of the rows are to help push air through the lights; you don't want to rely on the air handler to pull air through more than 2-3 lights in a row. Then you can duct your air handler how you see fit. I split my ducting so that about 75% of the airflow is ducted to vents that are right overtop of my plants and then the rest of the air goes into a workspace area I have and into the electrical room. Since you can't control the temp in these other rooms without installing electric dampers and a second thermostat (totally an option) I just put them into rooms that it does not matter what the temperature is. You can also control it fairly well with lever vents.

I don't think you understand the theory totally yet. If you were to put Fresca Sol's or Ice Box on each light you would have to actually buy a larger chiller than just using an air handler becuase it is a less efficient system than the one I just described. If you were to put an Ice Box on each light you would need 4,000btu of chiller for each Ice Box (16 lights x 4,000btu = 64,000btu or 5.5tons of chiller). Now, that being said you would still have to cool the ambient air in the room, the ballasts, dehumidifiers, pumps, etc... So you would either have to get an a/c or you would have to size your chiller bigger and add an air handler. The Ice Box and the Fresca Sol only cool your lights back to ambient room temperature. You could use the Ice Box as spot a/c units but you would need about 6 of them to cool a room that size which means you would need a 7.5hp chiller to run 22 Ice Box. It would cost you $2800 just in Ice Box to put on the lights if you went that route; plus another $1000 to $1500 in Ice Box to cool the room (plus fans, manifold lines, tubing, etc..) and you would need dehumidifiers as well. You can get a 5 ton air handler for around $2,000 and you wouldn't need all the extra fans, tubing, manifold lines, etc... You could get 2 3ton air handlers and a 7.5hp chiller for cheaper than all those Ice Box, fans, etc...Then it would just be a questions as to whether you are going to use the chiller to cool Co2 generators, reservoirs and dehumidifiers in the other rooms (veg, drying, etc..). Either way you go the chiller would have enough capacity to cool those other items.

I would STRONGLY recommend against the Fresca Sol for an application like this. That system is so inefficient when trying to handle large light arrays that you would need to add 25% to your chiller. The water has no diffuser so it is not even near as efficient. Think of it this way...if it was really hot outside and you went out to your driveway with 2 buckets of water. Say you dumped one of them out on the driveway and left the other one in the bucket. Which pool of water would heat up faster? The one you dumber out because you have essentially diffused the water and given it a greater surface are with which to conduct heat. Think of the Fresca Sol as the full bucket of water. It is harder for your lights to transfer heat from the bulb to a full bucket of water.

Check this thread out. It is a much smaller application than yours. This is a friend of mine who I helped setup a system. He has 2 8x8 tents and 3 1000w lights (2 in 1 and 1 in the other). He lives in a VERY warm climate year round. His tents are inside of a tin roof building with no ventilation that is barely big enough to fit the two tents and let someone walk in. On top of that the roof is only about 9' tall and sits in the dead sun for 10 hours a day. He is using 1 Ice Box per hood (3 total) and 1 Ice Box as a spot a/c per tent (2 total) with a 2hp chiller that also cools his nutrient reservoir and 2 Co2 generators. His chiller runs about 20 minutes per hour on average. Check his journal out. He's got TONS of pictures. Trust me, the technology is efficient.

https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/513182-newb-grow-journal.html
 

ganjagoddess

Well-Known Member
Thank you for the heads up on the Fresca's, i will trust your opinion and not really count them out as a option.

With that said If I am to go the Chillking route, I have to cut my size in half down to 6- 8 lights to start to prove this concept. Your buddies journal is Awesome and probally the best start I can get as far as seeing one, so thank you!

Ok as to some more questions for you:

so I am assuming there are 2 types here were talking about:

WATER CHILLER with ICE BOX's and smaller fans to move air out of enviroment (The Journal you posted)

Water CHILLER with Air handler. (More like your grow?)
RecirculatingWatercooled.jpg
So would it be like this? You describe dumping the air into rooms, so where does your air handler exhaust too? Back to the hoods through the Y system decreasing in size down to 8"?

I'm seeing it Y Into the Intake and then Y back out of the exhaust all running sealed through the lights and throught the air handler attached to the Chiller?
 

phillipchristian

New Member
Thank you for the heads up on the Fresca's, i will trust your opinion and not really count them out as a option.

With that said If I am to go the Chillking route, I have to cut my size in half down to 6- 8 lights to start to prove this concept. Your buddies journal is Awesome and probally the best start I can get as far as seeing one, so thank you!

Ok as to some more questions for you:

so I am assuming there are 2 types here were talking about:

WATER CHILLER with ICE BOX's and smaller fans to move air out of enviroment (The Journal you posted)

Water CHILLER with Air handler. (More like your grow?)
View attachment 2086203
So would it be like this? You describe dumping the air into rooms, so where does your air handler exhaust too? Back to the hoods through the Y system decreasing in size down to 8"?

I'm seeing it Y Into the Intake and then Y back out of the exhaust all running sealed through the lights and throught the air handler attached to the Chiller?
You almost got it. If you do Ice Boxes then you get 1 Ice Box per 1000w light. If you are using 600w lights then you can squeeze 2 lights per Ice Box. On your drawing you would put 1 Ice Box after the second light and then another after the 3rd light. With Ice Boxes you don't need to vent the air out of the room. Just use a fan like you normally would to pull air from the room through the first 2 hoods, then through the Ice Box, through the last hood and through the last Ice Box. Then through the fan and back into the room. No need to exhaust it because it is no longer warm. The Ice Box has cooled it. When using Ice Box to cool lighting you always pull air through them just like a carbon filter. If your lights are in rows too long for 1 fan then you put a fan in the middle but still always have it pulling through the Ice Box. The only time you can push air through one is if you are using it as a spot a/c and there is nothing on the other side of it. This is because if for some reason you have a condensation issue then you're going to end up with water being on your bulbs if you push air through them. In the case of a spot a/c it doesn't really matter because there is not hood in front of it.

As far as the air handler goes you still are a little confused. The air handler is just like the one you see in a home. It has a return to supply air to the heat exchanger inside of it and an exhaust which can be ducted anywhere you want. You do not create a loop with this air. You pull air from the room through your hoods and into the return on the air handler. Then you can either have the air handler exhaust all of that air from 1 port right back into the room or you can duct it throughout the room and have it deliver air evenly to all the corners in the room. You can even duct it to seperate rooms that need cooling.

Something like this:

Farm Room.jpg
 

polyarcturus

Well-Known Member
here some wild questions for you phil. you will like this.

if i convert a standard air conditioner into a chiller with its own fan and exhaust straight out a dryer vent, a rez farther from grow area for chiller unit is guess you would say and it own pump to recirculate water to another res. that has a pump that actually goes to the devices that cool the air and dehumidify and what not. or should i eliminate 2 res es and go with one res and a higher powered pump? also would the condenser from the AC corrode this seems full of holes but seems more feasible for small diyer. i was thinking as large air handler with water cooling would be the most efficient way to use a chiller. water cooling is some interesting stuff i have to say very efficent less ducting and more control over where the heat goes
 

polyarcturus

Well-Known Member
2 res seems better as i could set the pump in the second res to come on only when the heat in the room goes up and another temps sensor to the chiller to tell it to only com on when the temp of the water is up.
 

polyarcturus

Well-Known Member
also how would i go about plumbing an air conditioner in to a self contained chiller. yes i know the danger trust me proper care will be taken its not like im gonna just start right now...
 

phillipchristian

New Member
here some wild questions for you phil. you will like this.

if i convert a standard air conditioner into a chiller with its own fan and exhaust straight out a dryer vent, a rez farther from grow area for chiller unit is guess you would say and it own pump to recirculate water to another res. that has a pump that actually goes to the devices that cool the air and dehumidify and what not. or should i eliminate 2 res es and go with one res and a higher powered pump? also would the condenser from the AC corrode this seems full of holes but seems more feasible for small diyer. i was thinking as large air handler with water cooling would be the most efficient way to use a chiller. water cooling is some interesting stuff i have to say very efficent less ducting and more control over where the heat goes
Just go with 1 reservoir. It will be a lot more efficient. Then use a good pump to supply a manifold line. Feed the pump from the reservoir and have it feeding a pvc manifold line. Then run that manifold line into your grow room and everywhere you have a piece of equipment you put a "T" with a bushing and a hose barb adapter. Run tubing from the adapter to your equipment. At the end of the pvc just put a cap. Then you have another pvc that is bigger (3/4" vs 1" or 1" vs 1 1/4") that runs parallel to the supply line. This will also connect via tees and hose barb adapters to the exhaust side of your equipment and bring the hot water back to your reservoir. That's the easiest way to do it. Just 1 pump, pvc, and a few fittings. Plus you can insulate the pvc to make it even more efficient. Just gotta make sure you chiller reservoir water is above dew point or you will have condensation on your manifold lines. If you get a good cast iron centrifuge pump ($75-$100) then you can use it to pump water to the chiller and to the manifold cause those pumps have multiple ports. Chiller comes on when the res temp rises. Not water coming back to the res will make the temps rise. Use thermostat controllers in the room to turn on fans that blow through your heat exchanger when it gets to hot. Water is always running through the manifold. Better to leave the pump running all the time cause waer pumps will burn out easily if made to switch on/off a lot. They will last a lot longer if you just let them run.
 

phillipchristian

New Member
also how would i go about plumbing an air conditioner in to a self contained chiller. yes i know the danger trust me proper care will be taken its not like im gonna just start right now...
I'm pretty sure you can't. Different physics. Air conditioners pass air over the coils which in turn transfers the heat from the air to the refrigerant. Chillers pass water over the coils to transfer heat to the refrigerant. You'd have to gut the a/c and get new parts and an internal reservoir. The only part from the a/c you could use would be the fan and the diffuser.
 

ganjagoddess

Well-Known Member
Its still a closed loop just adding the grow room air too right?

FullroomRecirculatingWatercooled.jpg

Also just want to clarify I dont also have to have ICEBOXES in addition to a air handler/High HP chiller to make this work at 8-16 lights or is that part of the deal?
 

phillipchristian

New Member
Its still a closed loop just adding the grow room air too right?

View attachment 2086328

Also just want to clarify I dont also have to have ICEBOXES in addition to a air handler/High HP chiller to make this work at 8-16 lights or is that part of the deal?
Exactly. It's still a closed loop. Just recirculating air. You can even put a filter on your air handler to scrub the air from the room. Not as efficient as a carbon filter but I put a HEPA filter on mine.

With 8-16 lights you only need the air handler. If you wanted to put an Ice Box or two in your veg room as spot a/c units you have the capacity on your chiller or you could just duct your air handler in there as well. You just won't have complete control over the temp unless you install an electronic damper with a thermostat. Or you can just put a lever vent and tweak it that way. Just remember, if you size a chiller for 8 lights then you are not going to be able to add another 8 later on. My room is using about 9hp worth of my chiller. I oversized it becuase I am adding 2 more 1000w lights. Even then I will have room left on it. It runs more efficient that way and someday in the future I may add more lights.
 

phillipchristian

New Member
I can't tell if those are boxes on that drawing. If you have the air handler you will not need any Ice Box in your flower room. The only reason you would need a manifold line from your chiller that is seperate from the air handler hook ups is if you decided to get a water cooled Co2 generator, you wanted to cool your reservoir with a coil; or you had Ice Box or other water cooled equipment in another room.
 

ganjagoddess

Well-Known Member
45 degrees for air handler, 60 for accesories right?...

I could see how once installed you could plug and play lines everywhere for all sorts of goodies...

If you had a hot spot could always throw in a Icebox...


Any advice as to why you would have to include the room, do you think it could run closed loop with just the lighting.

Definitly would circulate the air though.
 

phillipchristian

New Member
The only reason you see the Ice Box in my floorplan is because I had them left over from another room so I just decided to throw them in there and take some load off my air handlers. Plus, when pushing 8k watts back to your air handler it helps to cool that air slightly before pumping it into the return. You won't need to worry about that though with only 6k watts. If you do more then that we will discuss your options; like dual air handlers.
 

phillipchristian

New Member
45 degrees for air handler, 60 for accesories right?...

I could see how once installed you could plug and play lines everywhere for all sorts of goodies...
Exactly. Basically you build a manifold out of PVC and run it to all of the equipment you want to cool. You have a supply manifold and a return manifold. Here is the Hydro Innovations Schematic that even has the Lowes Part #'s. The spacing between feed lines would just depend on your need. You buy the parts and some 1 & 1 1/4 PVC and build it to whatever lengths you need.

Capture.jpg
 

deew

Active Member
Any experience with the ecoplus 1.5 hp commercial chiller phil? Or advise for someone looking to cool 4x600 watts in an 8' x 9' x 8' room? Need a chiller than can be installed inside the house but not inside the grow room.
 

Warlock1369

Well-Known Member
Hay phill I have a question. Im working on a idea to cool a few things. Using trans coolers from a car running water and antifreeze. Is it better to have the cooler befor or after the fans? Don't want to put holes in my room and be wrong. I'm thinking after. But also thinking maybe befor sence it might cool the fan motors.
 

phillipchristian

New Member
Hay phill I have a question. Im working on a idea to cool a few things. Using trans coolers from a car running water and antifreeze. Is it better to have the cooler befor or after the fans? Don't want to put holes in my room and be wrong. I'm thinking after. But also thinking maybe befor sence it might cool the fan motors.
Hey Warlock, if you are not putting anything after the coolers (like a hood or something) then run the fans first. Although it really doesn't matter. Positives and Negatives to both ways. Heat from the fan will actually warm the air a little if they are last and make the system less efficient. Pushing air through the cooler actually lowers CFM on the fans. It's all the same. You just don't blow air through a cooler into a hood because you will get condensation buildup. Good luck. Let me know how it turns out.
 

phillipchristian

New Member
Any experience with the ecoplus 1.5 hp commercial chiller phil? Or advise for someone looking to cool 4x600 watts in an 8' x 9' x 8' room? Need a chiller than can be installed inside the house but not inside the grow room.
Hey bud, I have no experience with the EcoPlus chillers but I am pretty sure anything over 1hp is gonna emmit some heat that needs to be exhausted. You really don't want those things inside cause they will warm the air and then become super inefficient. They are the same design as an a/c unit and to work efficiently they need cool air and they need to exhaust hot air outside or at least to another room. Any way you could put it in a window? Most of them are designed to be slide into windows and from the back they look like a window a/c. How are you cooling the lights? With Ice Boxes on the hoods or just using the chiller as a spot a/c with Ice Boxes around the room?
 

Warlock1369

Well-Known Member
Hey Warlock, if you are not putting anything after the coolers (like a hood or something) then run the fans first. Although it really doesn't matter. Positives and Negatives to both ways. Heat from the fan will actually warm the air a little if they are last and make the system less efficient. Pushing air through the cooler actually lowers CFM on the fans. It's all the same. You just don't blow air through a cooler into a hood because you will get condensation buildup. Good luck. Let me know how it turns out.
Any idea how to cool the air befor the lights? That was a biggie for me I'm looking at 120 temps and 15% RH need to cool the intake formThat to under 99. To cool right. I was thinking a cooler on the intake of the lights exoust the attic. A heat exchanger for the dehumidifier. Then a cooler for hot air from flower to bottom of veg room. Veg room hot air dumped by the dehumidifier with a cooler on that. All set inline with a AC running. I'm in a sealed room so no I don't want the dry hot air from outside coming in. I have 3 months to figure this out.
 

Warlock1369

Well-Known Member
Oh all my fans are in the rooms. Not outside. It's a large area but need my kids from asking what is that as long as possible. Don't need my teens finding out I grow. I dont have them. They live with mom. My younger 2 know and help. But never have them at the same time. Well in the grow house anyways.
 
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