Pruning - When do you take all the leaves off?
- Thread starter John Stevens
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AbsoluteChron
Member
I don't really see why it's so hard to understand the SOG example. Dlively is just saying that there is no one answer. Even the most thick headed person should reasonably be able to recognize that there is a difference between trimming a single fan leaf and trimming all of the fan leaves. The plant numbers are completely immaterial because the most limiting factor in the indoor grow is the lighting. For example, Dlively cannot simply just go out and plant those same 64 plants in an indoor room measuring 100 x 100 feet with the same lighting and expect the same results. He must work within the footprint of the reflector, not too close to burn the leaves, and not so far away that the PAR values drop off and growth is diminished. The main benefit to increasing your plant numbers is to shorten veg time.
Serapis
Well-Known Member
I transplanted my ladies into 3 gallon pots yesterday and broke out the Fiskars to do some trimming. I had never thinned the plants before but decided to do it and follow some new school advice. It was amazing how many bud sites were hiding behind fan leaves. On my colas, I trimmed off every other fan leaf from the bottom, so there are alternating leaves. The plants look better already and I can't wait to see the previously hidden bud sites begin to stretch up. I am in week 3 of 12/12 and week 2 of actual flowering.
808toker
Active Member
THAAATs a better way...i wouldent cut every other leaf as that seems like alot but i would defiantly cut the ones covering the buds unless there small one and whatevers dead i think thats the ONLY time to cut alot of leaves off
YOU are the one arguing against proven facts placed in front of you. Just like the spouse being cheated on who denies it really happened despite having irrefutable evidence placed in front of them. You arent showing anyone anything with your pictures. Anyone can grow a large single plant. I showed an entire tray to further prove my point since YOU are the one that said my single plant picture wasnt proof enough. I can clearly see from your pics that you grow large plants with large colas. They look great but your yield sure isnt going to be that high grown like that. Looks EXACTLY how I used to grow before I tripled my yields. Nothing wrong with that but you can get much higher yields in your space if you actually listened instead of blasting everyone who grows differently then yourself. Looks like you have maybe 1 large cola for every four that I have and your cola pictures dont look any bigger despite your time wasted vegging them out to get the plants that large. I have almost no veg and NO wasted space in my grow. To each is own but I wasnt the one bashing the way you grow, remember that.Ahhhhhhh, more chest beating. I can cherry pick photos too to make my case.
What's your point other than your insatiable need to argue against the laws of nature? Here are some indica dom plants with dark green, large photon collectors left intact as mama nature intended it to be. There have been many others posted here and over the years, you'll just have to search out my attachments, not that your mind isn't already made up. These were crammed into a small space without any side lighting.
View attachment 1201807View attachment 1201810View attachment 1201811View attachment 1201821View attachment 1201814
Last shot is a secondary harvest from one of the plants. You know the area, the bottom where no light reaches.
So you're removing the most efficient collector of photons, THE photosynthesis aficionale, and 3 weeks into bloom when the plant needs all the simple and complex carbos it can get until harvest! Gawd, this is too funny! 3 weeks eh? Not 1.5 or 6.25? Now that's some good ol' forum voodoo magic.... yess sah tis.
Being that this was erroneously posted in 'Advanced Techniques' by someone who doesn't understand what makes a plant tick (but has been sucked into inaccurate but trendy forum popular thought).....all I can say is it's typical Advanced Stupidity. Come on people, get away from cannabis forums for a while and get your fanny into some regular gardening forums where you might learn something bonafide. The basic lessons learned in a solid gardening forum just might be your shortcut to success.
UB
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The reason for cutting at week three is because that is when the plant stops stretching and ends its last bit of vegetative state. At that point the leaves dont serve much purpose. There are tons of other leaves left on the plant just the large fan leaves are removed to get better light penetration and uncover about 75% of the hidden bud sites. My grows over the last year and even the few pictures I posted PROVE beyond a shadow of a doubt that you can get the biggest thickest colas with them removed at week 3. You act like I have some hidden agenda when in fact I am only trying to help people under stand and open their wn eyes instead of blindly listening to old mule headed old dogs like you.
Its under advanced techniques since even old schoolers like you cant wrap your head around new methods of growing. Perfect place for it seeing how 99% of board members new and advanced are misinformed about the removal of leaves. Science would never move forward if everyone thought as you do. Luckily most scientist are willing to explore other theories especially when given damn good proof.
Good for you , just try and see what works for your style of growing. I only remove a lot of them because of how many plants there are in the given space. Good for you for thinking on your own and drawing your own conclusion, hopefully others will be willing to explore as well.
Is anyone willing to do a side by side and post pictures? I think this will prove it once and for all. Same environment, same strain, same nutes, same everything except one is with the all fan leaves and one is without.
Honestly, my friend and I grow pretty much the same but he always got more than me in dry weight. Plants are LST'd, same nutes except for an additive or two, and I run more light than he does. I run 1000 watts with 4 plants and he runs 600 watts with 2 plants. He vegged under fluorescents and I vegged under a 600 watt mh. His plant was a little over 2 feet in flower after the stretch and mine was over 3 feet. We both do DWC in 5 gallon buckets and ran the same strain. He got almost 8 oz's with all the fan leaves removed and I only got 4.2 oz's with all the fan leaves on. The next time I grew the same strain but removed about half the fan leaves and got almost 6 oz's. On the my next on I'm removing all the fan leaves to see what happens.
Here's some pics of his plant (fan leaves removes) vs. my plant. Both are Purple Urkel and using House and Garden Aqua Flakes and House and Garden additives. I'm using all of the additives in the H&G line and he isn't. We are both using Great White. Both in 5 gallon DWC. I use 1000 watts over 4 plants and he uses 600 watts over 2 plants. He got almost 8 oz's and I only got 4.2 oz's.
His plant
My plant
Honestly, my friend and I grow pretty much the same but he always got more than me in dry weight. Plants are LST'd, same nutes except for an additive or two, and I run more light than he does. I run 1000 watts with 4 plants and he runs 600 watts with 2 plants. He vegged under fluorescents and I vegged under a 600 watt mh. His plant was a little over 2 feet in flower after the stretch and mine was over 3 feet. We both do DWC in 5 gallon buckets and ran the same strain. He got almost 8 oz's with all the fan leaves removed and I only got 4.2 oz's with all the fan leaves on. The next time I grew the same strain but removed about half the fan leaves and got almost 6 oz's. On the my next on I'm removing all the fan leaves to see what happens.
Here's some pics of his plant (fan leaves removes) vs. my plant. Both are Purple Urkel and using House and Garden Aqua Flakes and House and Garden additives. I'm using all of the additives in the H&G line and he isn't. We are both using Great White. Both in 5 gallon DWC. I use 1000 watts over 4 plants and he uses 600 watts over 2 plants. He got almost 8 oz's and I only got 4.2 oz's.
His plant
My plant
OZUT
Active Member
How about you grab yourself a calculator and let it do the math for you...You're saying that most SOG growers get 1 or 2 pounds per tray. That's 16-32 ounces right? Even using your high number, that's 32 ounces coming from 64 plants. That's 1/2 an ounce per plant.....You with me so far? Now isn't it more convenient to grow 12 plants in a NON-SOG setup averaging 2 1/2 ounces per plant and getting the same 32 ounces that you needed 64 plants to get? I gave you the example of the 1,000 plants example to show you that it's not all about grams per watt...
Now if you really paid attention, you'de know that I never said that your 2 grams per watt is average...I didn't knock that...What I've been saying is that you're so lost with your grams per watt logic that you're not taking into consideration everything else. You'de also know that I never said your grow isn't efficent or that you shouldn't take off fan leaves in your setup because leaving them on wouldn't work for you...All you're trying to do is draw attention to your claim that you're pulling 8 pounds a tray...
But whatever dude, you go pull your 8 pounds a tray, or your 2 grams per watt or however you wanna measure your shit
You know I was very clear from the start what my yields were so I really dont get what your problem is. I guess I could spell it out for you again;
30 grams per plant average
30 X 4 = 120 grams per SQ foot
64 X 120 = 1920 grams on one tray every 8 weeks
1920 grams = 8.5 lbs
You and your friend are pulling a LOT less then this.
You keep pestering me about the yields as if they werent that good when in fact they are extremely good even for people using CO2 which I dont.
What do you mean everything else ? I am growing a LOT more in my given space then you, your friend or 99% of other growers out there. That is called growing more efficiently any way you would like to slice it. I cant belive you are even trying to argue this fact......
What gives ?
AbsoluteChron
Member
OZUT, you are failing to understand that LIGHTING is the most limiting factor in most indoor grows. That is why basically everyone uses that as the benchmark.
Well right here you said it isnt great. Also if someone was actually getting over 2 lbs with 240 watts of CFLs that would be great but it isnt going to happen. Look I think you and I werent understanding each other perhaps as I can see you havent been flat out bashing like others have. Yes it is more of a PITA doing 6 plants a light and I miss the ease of growing 12-16 plants in that space. The only reason I do it is becuase I am able to get a much higher yield which was the point of this discussion. Cutting ;leaves helps on this type of grow maybe not others.
Peace ?
Civil.Dis0bedience
Active Member
I just read this article on cannagraphic..good read. Defoliation-Hi-Yield Technique http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?threadid=174163
Good find. I'll post my results in there as well. Its amazing how people can be so closed minded even when it comes to growing pot.
Civil.Dis0bedience
Active Member
Every time i see an experiment being done it seems the de-leafing is having great results. I'm dont know much about plants, how they grow, what exactly their leaves do ect ect. But you cant argue with results. I have 12 plants right now almost 2 months into veg. I'll pluck the majority of leaves off 6 and leave sex. Tell you how they look when they go into flower in a few weeks.
Civil.Dis0bedience
Active Member
leave 6 ^ (so fuckinn high)...side note..i want fuckinn BLUE DREAM seeds SOO bad
The Ruiner
Well-Known Member
Isnt the answer to this question:
Harvest
Harvest
gimmenobammerweed
Well-Known Member
u should get a lab coat and start a youtube series where u can teach everyone basic biology and the CORRECT way to cultivate.
Uncle Ben
Well-Known Member
Many people mistake observation and data as supporting a conclusion when there are other factors which could be responsible for the observed phenomenon and data. It's a correlation/causation mistake.
Like I said before, over my many years of posting at cannabis forums, I have yet to see anything remotely valid when it comes to a bonafide empirical study using a control group, proper standarized testing techniques, proper methods, etc. If it's a legitimate, non-partisan, non-agenda based study done by say.....a university, I'll buy into it. But, it's more like seeing what you choose to see, expecting results that you want, being suckered in by anecdotal evidence, parroting (erroneous) popular opinion and such.
IC Mag is just another cannabis forum with a huge share of marijuana nerds and noobs.
UB