Lucas Formula Question

[Woodland Dave]

Hello! I'm currently a simple soil grower and want to switch to hydro. I have done my forum research and have decided on the hempy method using all perlite. I still don't think I know exactly what I need to manage my water/nutrient solution. The Lucas Formula seems to be like what I would want but I guess the other threads on this forum on this subject aren't written dumb enough for me. I guess I just want a list of the specific consumer items I need to by for nutrients and pH management, and a rough outline on how to use them all. Thank you and happy growing!

 

[Freda Felcher]

I'm in the same boat. I have been looking it up for a day or two now through the search option and i can't find anything that shows what the formula consists of. i know it's GH hydroponics nutes but that's as much as i know.

 

[Freda Felcher]

This may help some: https://www.rollitup.org/hydroponics-aeroponics/4387-lucas-formula.html

 

[GreenThumbSucker]

This may help some: https://www.rollitup.org/hydroponics-aeroponics/4387-lucas-formula.html

Lucas, simplified:

With the Lucas Formula you use only the Micro and Bloom parts of the three part General Hydroponics Flora series. The Grow part is not used.

The formula is used at a ratio of 1:2
1 part Micro - 2 parts Bloom

With the formula you shoot for a PPM of 1300 from start to finish of the grow, assuming you use HID lighting.

If you are using T5 lighting (florescent) you shoot for 1000 PPM.

It is that simple.

Do you have a PH meter? PPM meter? What kind of lighting are you using?

 

[Freda Felcher]

I own a ph meter and am ordering ppm meter really soon. I have five plants growing in 2 gallon soil pots, not yet sexed. They are growing under cfl's while in veg and will go under a 600w hps soon once the clones i took off them root. So far i have been using low doses of Alaska fish emulsion that is bubbled for a day, with some molasses. I plan to make a small ebb and flow setup for flowering in a few months but for now its soil. Will the lucas formula work well with soil? Sorry to ask a soil question in a hydro forum, my origional inquiry about lucas formula is research for my future ebb and flow project. but I was thinking if I can use it for soil i'll start now and then it may be an easier transition to hydro.

 

[nordowell]

if using hard tap water ppm > 220 get the gh micro for hardwater

 

[Sexxxy Beast]

if using hard tap water ppm > 220 get the gh micro for hardwater

I am using the Lucas formula right now, it doesn't seem to be working for my DWC/Bubbleponics setup.
I have

2 18 gallon plastic tanks
2 air stones per tank
4 plants per tank
Starting PPM 210 Hard Water
PH was 5.7 now 6.1
Added 1 part micro (dark brown)
and 2 parts bloom hardwater (pink)
PPM now at 500

I am currently filling the tank an inch above the pots bottom.

Plants are turning light green and yellow, stems are purple and leaves are drooping.

There are a few possibilities, over watering, under watering, too much nutes, not enough nutes, or perhaps the water is too hard???

 

[Sexxxy Beast]

Oh yeah, the plants are clones just out of the rockwool

 

[Resin225]

The lucas formula is 8ml micro 16ml bloom. 2 to 1 ratio is not entirely true. 10ml micro and 20 bloom is not the lucas fromula, but it is 2 to 1. The lucas formula is based on 0-8-16 per gallon. So it must be in multiples of 8 and 16, i.e. 8-16-24-32 and 16-32-48- 64, etc.
Also the 0-5-10 formula is NOT for vegging. It is for cfl's.

You really should google ask lucas. There is a 40 page thread that he answers all questions about the formula. Its a great read.

 

[Sexxxy Beast]

The lucas formula is 8ml micro 16ml bloom. 2 to 1 ratio is not entirely true. 10ml micro and 20 bloom is not the lucas fromula, but it is 2 to 1. The lucas formula is based on 0-8-16 per gallon. So it must be in multiples of 8 and 16, i.e. 8-16-24-32 and 16-32-48- 64, etc.
Also the 0-5-10 formula is NOT for vegging. It is for cfl's.

You really should google ask lucas. There is a 40 page thread that he answers all questions about the formula. Its a great read.

I just 2:1'ed it until i got to 1000ppm for one of my tanks just now. I read on another page people who refill the tanks just add the ratio until it gets to their desired ppm. I hope the 8:16mls ratio isnt as important as the ppm.

I also raised the tanks water level until it made contact with my roots that are just out of the rock wool/rapid rooters. I hope this helps as when I experimented with this a few weeks ago on one plant i had the level at the root level and the plant turned green in a few days and the stem turned green from the top down.

What I feel is crutial to this working is knowing where the water level should be in comparison to the roots, Ive seen the roots of mature plants actually soaking in the water so I assume a high water level isnt going to harm them. I also want to be sure that having a high ppm level of 1000 is not too much nutrients for my young plants.

I have read a few pages of ask lucas but 40 pages is hours worth of reading just to answer a couple questions.

 

[fatman7574]

Just remember two parts bloom to 1 part micro. It does not mater if its 60 to 30, 90 to 45, 18 to 9 or 4 to 2. In the end its all just a ratio of two parts Bloom and one part Micro. Use the right ratio and just keep adding at the 2 to 1 ratio until you get to the EC you desire.

 

[Resin225]

Sexxxy--1000 ppm may be a bit high for young plants. You have to watch them and see what they tell you. You can always change the res if it's too much for them. Be sure to work the ppm us slowly.

I did not read all of the posts on the ask lucas thread. If you skim over and read the ones that apply to dwc, I think it will help you understand growing mj better. I know it did for me.

 

[Resin225]

Fatman, with all due respect, the lucas formula is based on 0-8-16. Not 2:1. With that being said, I am unable to use it at 0-8-16, to much for my plants, lol. He and others get deeper into growing than I will ever be able to or want to. If it works for people however I/they use it, it's all good. To each their own.

 

[fatman7574]

Fatman, with all due respect, the lucas formula is based on 0-8-16. Not 2:1. With that being said, I am unable to use it at 0-8-16, to much for my plants, lol. He and others get deeper into growing than I will ever be able to or want to. If it works for people however I/they use it, it's all good. To each their own.

Resin with a return of respect. The zero is Floragrow. So I repeat the Lucas method is simply a rtaio of two parts Florabloom to one part Floramicro. The 0-8-16 you and other frequently suggest is a ratio is actually just a suggested ml dosage of each of the Flora products. Zero ml of floragrow, 8 ml of Flora Micro and 16 ml of Florabloom. i.e throw the Floragrow out of the picture as in the many years now of the use of the Lucas method/"formula" Floragrow has not been used , meaning just Florabloom and Floramicro are used. So we really only deal with ehe ratio between those two formulas.

It is hard to say why so many people have ever come to believe it is some miracle formula other than their blinding following myths passed on my others. The Lucsa mixture/"Formula" is and always has just simply been a method to avoid buying and using so many formulations. It does not necessarilly work better or best. Lucas has even recently wrote better/larger yields hve been grown using Floragrow and FloraMicro during the vegative stage and then switching over to Floramicro and Florabloom for budding.

Florabloom and Floramicro by the Lucas method are simply mixed at a 2 to 1 ratio. By the laws of mathematics, ratios are always reduced to the lowest common factor and the largest number is listed first. Both 8 and 16 can both be divided by 8 so they reduce to a 2 and a 1. Therefore Lucas mixture is mixed in a ratio of 2:1. Meaning two parts Florabloom to every one part Floramicro. Simply put 2:1 is the proper method of saying a ratio equalt to 16 parts of one to 8 parts of another. It's not rocket science just simple math. It is much easier to remember and use the simple ratio of 2:1 than 16:8, 10:5 or any other combination of large numbers that equal 2:1. It doesn't matter if your using 50 ml of Bloom and 25 ml Micro or 80 ml of bloom and 40 of Micro as long as the ratio is 2:1 and you are addimg it to enough water to get the EC you desire.

I repeat the numbers 0-8-16 are simply the ml amounts to add to a given amount of water to achieve a certain EC or ppm if the water is RO water not yet containing any nutrients. It is not a ratio. Some of you all will argue about things without thinking about what you are even arguing about or even saying. Lucas also suggests 0-5-10 as ml amounts for seedlings etc. That is just a ratio of 2:1 Florabloom to Floramicro as Floragrow is zero so it is not involved in the ratio of fi ormulations used. Are you now going to argue that I am wrong and that it is is a 0-5-10 ratio of Floragrow, FloraMicro, and Florabloom.

O-8-16 is a ml amount that is stated will provide a given strength. it is not a ratio. I have clearly defined ratios. If you were in school for example and a test problem stated a nutrient will be mixed using zero ml of Floragrow, 8 ml of Floramicro and 16 ml of Florabloom, what is the ratio of nutrient formulas used to make the final mutrient si olution? The professor or high school teacher would not give you a passing grade for writing 0-8-16. He/she would however give you an A for a grade if you answered a 2:1 ratio of Florabloom to Floramicro. Simple as that.

 

[Resin225]

Okay fatman like I said before, to each his own. I was mearly restating what lucas said in the ask lucas thread. His reason for the multiple of 0-8-16 is 2:1 He goes much deeper into growing than I will, hell I use less then 0-8-16 myself. If you read the ask lucas thread, he states it clearly. I also read he had great results with the flora nova.
An example of how things change when told from person to person is the 0-5-10 formula. Since 2004 it has been written as a veg formula. It's not, he also states in the thread that is for CFL lighting, but it has been passed of as a veg formula for years.
I just think knowing the why behind some of the things we do helps people esp. beginners like me understand the whole process. Again if it works for you or me, no matter how we do it, we just want good bud. Peace Fatman, have a good day.

 

[fatman7574]

Okay fatman like I said before, to each his own. I was merely restating what lucas said in the ask lucas thread. His reason for the multiple of 0-8-16 is 2:1 He goes much deeper into growing than I will, hell I use less then 0-8-16 myself. If you read the ask lucas thread, he states it clearly. I also read he had great results with the flora nova.
An example of how things change when told from person to person is the 0-5-10 formula. Since 2004 it has been written as a veg formula. It's not, he also states in the thread that is for CFL lighting, but it has been passed of as a veg formula for years.
I just think knowing the why behind some of the things we do helps people esp. beginners like me understand the whole process. Again if it works for you or me, no matter how we do it, we just want good bud. Peace Fatman, have a good day.

I really think the only reason that Lucas wrote the 0-8-16 and or what ever is that at that time the Lucas method first hit the growing forums few people owned and used TDS or Conductivity meters for growing pot. It was not easy to even get people to buy pH meters yet alone conductivity meters back then. It is still difficult at times to at first convince a newbie of the importance of pH and EC meters.

People just wanted to be told add so much of this and so much of that added to so much water. Many are still that way. So many people just add 8 ml of micro and 16 ml of bloom and then try to figure out what to do about their EC if they have an EC meter.

GH is likely quite happy if you do not ever buy an EC meter and just add water as it is needed and then just replace your entire reservoir contents once per week or so. They would sell more nutrients that way than if everyone followed the l Lucas method. Many people merely do this weekly entire cahange after just water top offs during the week until they get tired of the high nutrient cost, but then they can't figure out how to add nutrients daily or every other day because they are fixated on the recomended mixing amounts of 8 ml Micro and 16 ml of Bloom. They add this for every gallon of water they have added and don't get the proper EC on the meters they finally bought (maybe they get a low EC). So they add more doses of 16 ml of bloom and 8 ml of micro and get too high of an EC. So they try reading posted Lucas information and find the 0-5-10 recomendations and try adding 5 ml of micro and 10ml of bloom for each gallon of water they added and are still confused about how to get the right EC.

Now I repeat again. The proper ratio of bloom to micro is just 2 to 1. There are no magic numbers of 8-16 or 5-10 that always work as some people have initially higher TDS water and then adding to a already in use reservoir has nothing to do with 5-10 ml additions or 8-16 ml additions.

The magic numbers (once again) are just 2:1 until you reach the desired EC whether that be misinf g a fresh reservoir of wa nutrients or adding to a reservoir of nutrients laready in use. This means you nmay end up adding something like 12 ml of blomm and 6 ml of micro or even 8 ml of bloom and 4 ml of micro. The total amounts do not matter as long as they are in a 2 to 1 ratio and the finished EC is as desired. Likely the amounts you add from day to day will always be a little different but the ratios should always be 2 to 1.

For those who are curious if GH sold micro at a x100 concentrate it would have an EC of 3.3 and a pH of 5.3 when diluted. The Bloom if sold at x100 concentare would have an EC of 2.5 and a pH of 5.3 when diluted. I have no idea what concentration GH presently sells their concentare at. It should produce the same EC at what ever concenrt tration if mixed as directed if providing the analyis as advertised and guarnteed however that is not always the case. It is not unlike them to sell a concentrate of say x50 and just have you mix it at 1 to 50. Where as another mananfacturer might sell the same fertilizer in a x100 concentrate. They would both produce the same EC of the same analysis fertilizer but one would produce twice as much. Basically they put twice the amount of dry fertilizer in the same amount of fluid so it makes twice as much diluted to the same EC. GH, AN nor the other manfacturers clearly address these differences openly. They are deceptive by saying they have the highest analysis and such but seldom address the concentration of the products they sell. The analysis is the percentage of each fertilizer in the dry mix not the amount. The amount per gallon determines the concentration. The analysis (percentages) of fertilizers remain the same regardless of the concentration.

To look at it simply. You can buy a nutrient formula in a 1 gallon bottle with an analysis of 5-5-5 that is sold in a x100 concentrate. It likely will not say what it's concentration is but will instead just give mixing directions. You can take that same bottle and turn it into two 1 gallon bottles and truthfully say it is a 5-5-5 analysis fertilizer. Again don't state the concentration but instead give mixing directions requiring the use of twice as much of the fertilizer. Mixed as directed they will both provide the same EC of the same analyis fertilizer. However with one it will require you just buy the one bottle to make a set amount of fertilizer. However with the other it will require you use both bottles to make the same amount. The second two bottles would still be sold as a guarnteed analysis of 5-5-5. If you did not read all the information and if as usual they did not provide you with EC data of mixed solution you would think you were buying the same thing as they don't even have to tell you how much diluted nutrient their bottle will produce. So even when a manfacturer complies with sate laws in some states that require guaranteed anaylysis be provide they are still not required to give all the pertinent information to really know what you are paying for.

Too much. Oh well.

 

[schL48]

I really think the only reason that Lucas wrote the 0-8-16 and or what ever is that at that time the Lucas method first hit the growing forums few people owned and used TDS or Conductivity meters for growing pot.

this thread is old but really thinking from fatman is flat out your opinion and is flat out wrong. lucas says 0/8/16 period. thats it 0/8/16 per gallon get it.