Long Term Mother Care

[medidedicated]

Oh I got carried away so I would need to basically start over and still do 6-8 generations to make a IBL based off this banana og as starting point. They just gave me the pheno easier since I cant run thousands of plants. If I do find a unicorn tho from a outcross.. Same thing.

Selfish genetics baby. I love the name. It all started with learning about selfing and watching some people do it here.

This cool tho Im seeing what building my own legacy would look like. A bunch of cool giant bags of beans with labels. With one eventually being the cash cow. I could pass on my work to the next generation growers/breeders when I pass. More inspiration and purpose baby.

I just havent looked into IBLs yet as much. Like I said my first breeding tool I learned is selfing. You dont need to know everything about growing to be a grower, I think Ive established that. Same with breeding baby! Just take it day by day.

 

[medidedicated]

Lol. So Il have a family tree goin on. Each bag of seed is a generation. Il need to save most if jot all of them. The further back I go the harder due to more varying phenos. If I want more IBL seeds could just mate two phenos together.

The bags could lose viability but could also last 30years. So every 2-3 yrs test for viable. If dropping repeat that generations step to replenish that bag of seeds. Could use it to fix inbreeding depression.

Having another project along side this can help out cross to introduce more genes. Last resort. To fix inbreeding depression. A f1 polyhybrid would add the most varying phenotypes but that can be a good thing if the problem is that bad. A S1 can suffice if its not too bad.

Its a way to produce a promising genetic setup to serve my dabs only grow specifilly flower rosin. I could lose a mom and its not shit. Il raise yield and keep it there which I always wanted to figure out. No wonder I couldnt. I needed to wake up and become a personal breeder.

If Im not mistaken if you do it right it should work fine in other peoples setup. Theyd need to trial it first I heard, then the market comes to you. Id need to figure out hlvd testing and any other possible way I could screw someone else over. Working with reputable breeders tho Im likely to be clean. It doesnt travel in air like PM it needs to be brought to your plant.

My heart has good intent if you been following me I never try to make money when I have a potential opportunity to. Pure motivations and for the community or strive to. Im not a money guy Im a true hippy.

Anyway yea, so this about the most interesting mother thread Ive come across which I made. Taking mothering to a whole new level.

I like where my mind tends to be, on security. Its leading to a sound breeding project. Rather it lives on it one thing but if it does thats another. IBLs are good breeding tools, not just for me but to another breeder. Its like basketball and the ball is in my court now.

 

[medidedicated]

That stunted clone I kept for 4 flower cycles.. Is 5th generation that yielded 17.22% and good flower like 7-8 oz. Back tracking steps. The only other one it could be is 5th gen but 15% and some change for flower rosin yield. Im going to clone it and flower the mom and see if I can reselect that one.

It would of endured enough stress to make it about as good as gen 7 but then again.. If each gen is supposed to be a years worth.. I likely have a better mom to reselect from.

 

[Diego']

Okee. Did some more learnin. Sooo I want to create a IBL because they just dont exist. Only one I found was a shadey breeder no ones ever ran their gear before. Hell Id much rather do myself thank you very much.

Find that mom and then self it then fund the mom within that.. Cross it to the original mom I found and repeat 2 or more times and boom. I got my mom in every 5 seeds ish aka a true IBL.

All possible with 6 perpetual plants close to 5 harvests per year. Just be about your business and not clout. Do it right. For yourself.

Trying something similar to an IBL myself. I have 3 Orange cookie chem x MB15MTxMB15MT and Bruce Banner Lemon Haze MB15MTxMB15MT (this is the second BX of MB15MT) going now. Once these are done I want to breed these together and BX once more. Every MB is a different seed so that and the varied genetics from Orange Cookies/Bruce Banner hopefully is enough to keep hybrid vigor. This will be 86% donor parent genetics. I am choosing the cultivar from each cross that resembles the MB male the most.
In this case no side shoots in plant structure, similar height, and stem rub.
But running into issues because I got complacent on fertilization. Went too far and have nute burn. Hopefully the last 2 more weeks.

This would take me to 9 weeks of 12/12 and 6 weeks of pollination.
My experience is 5 weeks of pollination is usually enough to give viable seeds, so 6 weeks should be more than enough.

Other forums people have said 8 weeks for seeds and I have done that before but not sure the plants would survive till that point

 

[Diego']

Oh I got carried away so I would need to basically start over and still do 6-8 generations to make a IBL based off this banana og as starting point. They just gave me the pheno easier since I cant run thousands of plants. If I do find a unicorn tho from a outcross.. Same thing.

Selfish genetics baby. I love the name. It all started with learning about selfing and watching some people do it here.

This cool tho Im seeing what building my own legacy would look like. A bunch of cool giant bags of beans with labels. With one eventually being the cash cow. I could pass on my work to the next generation growers/breeders when I pass. More inspiration and purpose baby.

I just havent looked into IBLs yet as much. Like I said my first breeding tool I learned is selfing. You dont need to know everything about growing to be a grower, I think Ive established that. Same with breeding baby! Just take it day by day.

Do you have 2 different pollens laying around in your fridge by chance? Run 2 parallel lines each outcrossed to a different male strain, BX twice, then cross those 2 outcrossed lines together, and BX twice more. 93% donor parent genetics.
I keep reading that you shouldn’t BX more than twice because of inbred depression

 

[Diego']

Lol. So Il have a family tree goin on. Each bag of seed is a generation. Il need to save most if jot all of them. The further back I go the harder due to more varying phenos. If I want more IBL seeds could just mate two phenos together.

The bags could lose viability but could also last 30years. So every 2-3 yrs test for viable. If dropping repeat that generations step to replenish that bag of seeds. Could use it to fix inbreeding depression.

Having another project along side this can help out cross to introduce more genes. Last resort. To fix inbreeding depression. A f1 polyhybrid would add the most varying phenotypes but that can be a good thing if the problem is that bad. A S1 can suffice if its not too bad.

Its a way to produce a promising genetic setup to serve my dabs only grow specifilly flower rosin. I could lose a mom and its not shit. Il raise yield and keep it there which I always wanted to figure out. No wonder I couldnt. I needed to wake up and become a personal breeder.

If Im not mistaken if you do it right it should work fine in other peoples setup. Theyd need to trial it first I heard, then the market comes to you. Id need to figure out hlvd testing and any other possible way I could screw someone else over. Working with reputable breeders tho Im likely to be clean. It doesnt travel in air like PM it needs to be brought to your plant.

My heart has good intent if you been following me I never try to make money when I have a potential opportunity to. Pure motivations and for the community or strive to. Im not a money guy Im a true hippy.

Anyway yea, so this about the most interesting mother thread Ive come across which I made. Taking mothering to a whole new level.

I like where my mind tends to be, on security. Its leading to a sound breeding project. Rather it lives on it one thing but if it does thats another. IBLs are good breeding tools, not just for me but to another breeder. Its like basketball and the ball is in my court now.

Another thought, if I have a bunch of different crosses of Bruce Banner, ( for example Bruce Banner x Lemon Haze) and I cross it to Bruce Banner x Orange Blossom Express x Lemon Haze, I will still only have 50% BB genetics in the resultant cross? Short of F2 and pheno hunting what could I do to bring back the Bruce Banner genetics or a close proximation of them?

 

[medidedicated]

I was almost missing the point of what I learned lol. Dont flower the mom, flower clones from it. Its a recovery effort so theres no real thing as reselection thru the nuances of how I see it. I dont even have to ask AI.. They have stress memory. Some of my AI suggestions were when it was just still developing.

Like chat gpt I dont even use anymore Im tired of the inconsistancy for now. I just use google on the search results options, not the automatic one. Its called deep ai mode it will try to encourage u to use it some times. Well I did its the most consistent that I can read between the lines when its not.

Chat gpt and etc can just be outright wrong and you have to prime it to work by calling out its wrong answers until it does. Even then its not that good if its in that state.

 

[medidedicated]

Another thought, if I have a bunch of different crosses of Bruce Banner, ( for example Bruce Banner x Lemon Haze) and I cross it to Bruce Banner x Orange Blossom Express x Lemon Haze, I will still only have 50% BB genetics in the resultant cross? Short of F2 and pheno hunting what could I do to bring back the Bruce Banner genetics or a close proximation of them?

Idk man if Il be honest. I didnt think I had it in be to breed and I honestly wouldnt if these breeders just made what I want and even then.. I have a unhealthy obsession of never losing a mom or having to hunt for it again.

So Im naturally dabbling with breeding and might have some natural talent for it so far. Just keep being astute and dont rush anything.

I barely could grasp how strains are made because it depends on what your goal is. You can listen to hours of breeders talking but none if it makes sense until you have a project to base an example on.

For me this project was easy to plan as a lot of work was done for me for a nice starting point. I only have one parent. My private seed bank I just named Selfish Genetics really just focuses on finding moms and creating IBLs from them. Hence the name.

I just start by finding a keeper and self it, find keeper in offspring, back cross to the original mom several times. Inbreed depression is my main enemy but its just consistant on how to fix it which is simple.

Starting with something bx 3 times is a game changer its something you can plan on. Id keep the original name of strain to honor last breeder but if inbreed depression wins, Il have to outcross.

Hopefully to a project beside it so Im somewhat doing two strains at once. If to cross Il have to merge names or just take opportunity to be creative and make my own name but its not intentional. Id actually hate to have to do that.

So yea Im on the hunt to learn more about what problems to expect and start planning for. I cant think if anything else its just about doing it right and not rushing anything.

So what you have going on seems like a different approach/goals with different tools? Maybe too many traits youre trying to fix into one? My goals are very simple and straight forward Im sure theres more to learn but I think I got most of it figured out.

I dont think Im of much help thats all I really know for now. Tho you could just plug that into AI and have a chat with it it will probably answer your question.

 

[medidedicated]

Yea so those simple ways of fixing inbreed depression becomes better when you start from a more diverse point. Like a f1 polyhybrid. Its a race against time to stabilize it in 6-8 gens so starting with banana og which if its oregon kids, it was already inbred for hash.

I just have a weaker refined foundation to use those tools to fix inbreed depression. Whats cool is I can always release a project just for its high keeper rate. Selfish Genetics <3 We breed keepers! Community effort and credited.

 

[medidedicated]

Theres so much room for everyone. The bigger you get, someones gotta take over your work at some point. Its not really possible on a practical level to keep a strain forever. Its to be used in other breeding projects.

The overal cannabis genome needs preserving, Im just spending all time on my project. Have yet to look into the fact that I can do what I want still yet its tough. The new keepers are true females. True disease resistance etc.

The issues I will battle in my project are fixable but what if it some day wont be. Or new creations able to be made. There wil always be customers that dont want to get that deep into this and just want veriaty. Quality.

Its meds and I need them. It can feel like your time and effort is being taken and to know all this takes years and dedication and passion. When I first started and looked for genetics jesus, it all looks the same but just tend to want the picture and description. Like anyone else.

Theres waaay more that can be said on each strain more pics more everything. A reference to a trusted agreed source of info for newbies to read and best decide what they want to do if theyre willing to. You might be a easy to please customer and not really care for such isolated traits.

Like for example, you just dont see anything like f4 or at least for hash production and if you do, its got to be your method or else it might not work. Im happy to try it tho and if I saw something that said great for flower rosin Id buy 300$ in seeds easily. Im not rich but I will make way for it like you did when you didnt grow and just bought smoke instead.

Theres lots of room for improvement.

 

[hostagecs]

Theres so much room for everyone. The bigger you get, someones gotta take over your work at some point. Its not really possible on a practical level to keep a strain forever. Its to be used in other breeding projects.

The overal cannabis genome needs preserving, Im just spending all time on my project. Have yet to look into the fact that I can do what I want still yet its tough. The new keepers are true females. True disease resistance etc.

The issues I will battle in my project are fixable but what if it some day wont be. Or new creations able to be made. There wil always be customers that dont want to get that deep into this and just want veriaty. Quality.

Its meds and I need them. It can feel like your time and effort is being taken and to know all this takes years and dedication and passion. When I first started and looked for genetics jesus, it all looks the same but just tend to want the picture and description. Like anyone else.

Theres waaay more that can be said on each strain more pics more everything. A reference to a trusted agreed source of info for newbies to read and best decide what they want to do if theyre willing to. You might be a easy to please customer and not really care for such isolated traits.

Like for example, you just dont see anything like f4 or at least for hash production and if you do, its got to be your method or else it might not work. Im happy to try it tho and if I saw something that said great for flower rosin Id buy 300$ in seeds easily. Im not rich but I will make way for it like you did when you didnt grow and just bought smoke instead.

Theres lots of room for improvement.

im in talks with some breeders for the medical uses about some of these issues, like a single medical person its hard to justify 200 bucks for 12 reg seeds when you might end up killing them and i understand the costs of R&D but I tell them if i really wanna find a few strains that hit really well for me then im going to end up breeding them myself because most people want yield and high THC which doesn't mean it will be great medical imo. no hate on anyone just how i see the market

 

[medidedicated]

Im describing deception its a market I know lol. But I can see a growing market for trust and quality that gets more money from people. Some always get bangers while others always get herms or subpar results. You could lose a customer for life over a herm if they only knew even stabile lines do it too.

You dont want hlvd from some random grower either. I tend to stick with the same breeders that likely have strong quarentene game so everything isnt lost to not having that.

So being the middle man to that Id see is a growing market since with hash if you see smoke as trash.. You didnt get anything for your work. Its pushing that new industry.

 

[medidedicated]

So yea I got this f4 Il grow out since I aint got no damn info on it. If it were me Id say what the average it tested in flower rosin yield in the keeper phenos you were breeding with and the keeper offspring. What to expect when you find what they inteded to deliver to you.

They already dont do that for the bubble, hash rosin amd live hash rosin comunity. Theres no way theyre testing 8 different “hash” methods each time to verify it kept those traits. To then tell you what to expect at the seed bank. I know they cant tell too much like theyre intending for it to be grown but come on..

They got loads of descriptions which most the time isnt met. Hash is such a new developing thing Im just wow. Flower rosin king in the making here.

 

[medidedicated]

This could take a lifetime to achieve and it might not happen, Im aware of that. Honestly I just want to create two IBLs because you have to to ensure they help eachother make it. I found interesting that people can cross them and create a true f1 hybrid by definition which arent easy to find. I think Royal QS is on that project.

I just got to find a name for me as the breeder appearently. Its privete but could become public and might as well be because you have to do it right for yourself. That means it will do good for others. If I present it as my private project I can and should start putting my name on it as soon as I create the first seeds and run those.

So Selfish Genetics - Strain Name/Generation

Then behind that I put (Private Project Flower Rosin IBL)

If it makes it I just put breeder, strain name IBL.

I want to squeeze flower rosin in that title which is unusual but for hash makers its everything. Then description would be loaded and loaded with pics centric around how to grow it and yield the same end results flower rosin as me.

What yield to expect, 30% is the goal which is why this is a long shot. For consistancy to mother the best, run clones and create seeds while you can for most of your life just doing it a few times. Its a snapshot of time for the community to do something with. It will expire. After a few generations it will get inbreed depression.

Youll know when your seeds perform less like clones and eventually worse things like loss vigor. Resistance to disease stress, might herm on you too much. It already can on a stable line and when we are talking large numbers, a small home grower could experience it on a inconvenient level.

Its random, it could not happen, you could get one or a few. Or you can go multiple grows where one ruins the other plants depending how bad it hermed. If you group your plants together. When you get to a mother/clone only grow and isolate your plants you can find it much quicker and start to group them again.

Essentially Id be encouraging people to breed but so much work was done for them its hard to mess up. It can open the door for new breeders. Its really about running it once isolated, they say it must be perfect environment to weave out genetics or stress. Reading between lines, if your grow is as best possible and nothing extreme, youre good.

If it herms its clearly bad, if it doesnt, now you stress test it. Abuse her, TRY to make her herm. If it doesnt, thats your first mother. Do that again with basically identical copy and now mate them as theyre clean. Once you get that you really start to see how it works. Its simple and easy. Theres loads to learn but youre getting it at least.

All your really missing is a quarentine program and you really have a sound project. Others can buy your seeds or receive them whatever, then you have your projects you work on until theyre ready for you and the world. Youd be a breeder if Im not mistaken. You grow, you are a grower. You breed, you are a breeder. If you can grow anything till harvest with acceptable plants albeit a little beat sometimes, I think youre ready.

Id be doing dtw coco for results as close to mine possible tho. Everything else about my environment is pretty average just heavy transpiration with everything in check tho. The box fan is what changes things but Id encourage it. My box fan set up is pretty killer and immune to mold.

Idk how it would eventually reach other people. I dont want a dime from this so I think that would help. Whoever is willing to tho probably can hit me up and you can do whatever you want with it, just get it out there. Im just doing this for myself and mini- me’s out there struggling to enjoy their rosin presses. Would love to see your jaw drop when you hit 30% for the first time.

Id be engaging with people growing my seeds trying to help with any issues. Im active foruming daily nonstop for years anyway. If anyone has any insights DM me or let us know here in the comments.

 

[Farmer's Hat]

So Selfish Genetics

Breeding is a lot of fun. Its full of surprises and thats what makes it so thrilling, to me.

Something I am witnessing first hand is that when breeding is done outdoors, strains adapt to that region. It is one of the best ways to create a highly unique IBL. Growing indoors is great for producing really clean flower, but from my experience breeding solely indoors is truly a terrible way to develop an IBL. The selection process will always be flawed because the plants are not exposed to the elements and pests. This is an aspect that shouldn't be overlooked.

Having said that, almost every home grown crop is indoors. So to some extent, breeding solely indoors is acceptable because most plants will be grown indoors (under similar conditions).

Developing an IBL the traditional way, without selfing, is a much more nuanced and longer process. I personally enjoy the traditional way of developing and IBL. I dont have much experience with selfing, other than a few projects where I produced FEM seeds for friends.

Looking forward to see how your projects develop. I follow many breeders, from the highly well known to the talented and humble.

 

[hostagecs]

Breeding is a lot of fun. Its full of surprises and thats what makes it so thrilling, to me.

Something I am witnessing first hand is that when breeding is done outdoors, strains adapt to that region. It is one of the best ways to create a highly unique IBL. Growing indoors is great for producing really clean flower, but from my experience breeding solely indoors is truly a terrible way to develop an IBL. The selection process will always be flawed because the plants are not exposed to the elements and pests. This is an aspect that shouldn't be overlooked.

Having said that, almost every home grown crop is indoors. So to some extent, breeding solely indoors is acceptable because most plants will be grown indoors (under similar conditions).

Developing an IBL the traditional way, without selfing, is a much more nuanced and longer process. I personally enjoy the traditional way of developing and IBL. I dont have much experience with selfing, other than a few projects where I produced FEM seeds for friends.

Looking forward to see how your projects develop. I follow many breeders, from the highly well known to the talented and humble.

im hoping to do some outdoor grow/breeding in my hot alley way to see how the next line goes for heat, i've noticed in other plants i grow here and collect seeds regrow they do way way better the next go around. my pinto beans have no issues with the heat or wind like that did 2 years ago

 

[Farmer's Hat]

they do way way better the next go around

For sure. By F3 the strain has begun to adapt to its environment. Three seasons is all it takes to witness significant changes in a strain. Growing out at the very minimum 10 plants is all thats needed. Just make sure to avoid seeding the weak sensitive plants.

 

[hostagecs]

For sure. By F3 the strain has begun to adapt to its environment. Three seasons is all it takes to witness significant changes in a strain. Growing out at the very minimum 10 plants is all thats needed. Just make sure to avoid seeding the weak sensitive plants.

i've read some study's that also suggest if you water the plant less during the end of seed down the road the plants line will be less drought prone unsure if uniform across all plants tho