You're right, I probably edited it in after you started to respond but I'd never pay that much for genetics, but if you truly have a superior cut I also wouldn't argue that it's actually worth 200 bucks. The likelihood of someone in the commercial industry pulling one over on you is pretty high though. Most strains now are just hype and names anyways.
Clones Vs Seeds
- Thread starter Week4@inCharge
- Start date
lusidghost
Well-Known Member
Someday others will keep permanent bonsai mothers like myself. I can fit 30 plants under a single T5. I could fit 40 if I were using different trays, but I can also add multiple tiers using a rack system.
waterproof808
Well-Known Member
An elite clone is definitely worth the price of admission but unfortunately there are more people looking to take advantage of others than there are people you can trust. So buyer beware. In any case, Return on Investment is much quicker with an elite clone vs growing from seed and sifting through a bunch of mediocrity to find a keeper.
Lordhooha
Well-Known Member
Not 500 or anything over 100 bucks
waterproof808
Well-Known Member
Its worth whatever someone is willing to pay. I've bought $200-250 packs of seeds that produced absolute mediocrity, if I could go back in time I would gladly have spent that money on an elite clone instead of wasting months of sifting through garbage.
Week4@inCharge
Well-Known Member
LOL!! Right on.
Green Refuge
Well-Known Member
My thought process exactly. Not only are you getting that one keeper that the breeder worked so hard to find but you can make infinite amount of clones from it.
Tangerine_
Well-Known Member
And do some personal chucks. Pairing a couple of elite females and hunting those.
Most people dont have the space or time to do large hunts. Taking clones from every girl, precision labeling, and then you've gotta run the "possible keepers" at least twice before doing a final selection. Its extremely time consuming.
If you've got a good hook-up and trust that growers eye for selection, you're golden. And if you build a decent library of genetics you can trade for just about anything you want....seed packs included.
Its all subjective anyhow and not something you'll ever settle in a forum debate. Its one of those things where if you know...you know.
jimihendrix1
Well-Known Member
I love clones.
I bought a Chem91skva cut for $500 almost 2 years ago, and would buy it again. It reeks of gas, and is super potent. Some peple dont like it because its so strong.
Though some of the mothers I have I hunted myself. I F2d 2 packs ( 36 seeds ) of Mr Nice Super Silver Haze 10 years ago, went through 200+ females to find the mother I liked, and sill have it. Huge producer. One of the best. Fast growing, and easy to clone.
I also have a 20+ years old cut of the original 1999 AK47, and its as vigorous as it ever was. It reeks of flowers, and catpiss, and has a Anise Seed, and flowers taste. This shit reeks as much as any youll find. Will defeat any filter. I had a qp in the refrigerator, double bagged in an upstairs apartment I lived in almost 20 years ago, and you could smell it all the way out in the parking lot. 50 feet away.
I myself like the floral/hash taste, and reek of catpiss, and flowers type weed the best. Better than any RKS.
Have a cut of Blue Orca Haze from 5 years ago, and went through 50 females to find it. It tastes like menthol, gas, and hash. Super choke, and long lasting high.
Have 2 mothers of Dominion Seed Company Local Skunk. I pheno hunted 1 of the, and bought another one from a guy thats friends with Duke Diamond. It tests at 27%. Both super choke
Have a mother of Dominion Granny Skunk. Its a hashy, sour apples smell, and tastes like sour apples, and hash. Also super choke
I have a mother of 2005 Willie Nelson thats fire, and takes 100 days to flower. Doesnt stop growing until day 80 of flowering. It stretches 7 times its size when flipped. Flip it at 1 foot, and it will be 7 feet when done. Its best grown on 12/12 throughtout its cycle. Not done outside until Mid November. Too bad this strain isnt still available.
I keep these under 2 x Gavita 1150w DE HPS, and supply supplemental UVA/B since 2015. Solacure. I used to use 1000w Hortilux HPS, but the DE cover more area, but are hotter. Huge Infrared. Luckily I have good AC, and tremendous fresh air flow. I also veg under Gavita 1700e, 1000w Hortilux, and Gavita 1150w DE. Seedlings, and clones are blasted from day one, after clones root of course. I also have a partner who keeps some of these mothers for me. Weve been working together since the 80s. Ive known him since the 60s.
Id pay $1000+ for the Original Skelly/Puck Hashplant
Id pay $1000+ for the original PNW Haashplant, which is the mother of the Skelly/Puck
Id pay $1000 for the male cut of the Skelly x Sk1 that Duke Diamond used. Good males are as hard, or harder to find than the females.
Also in the summer, I take my mothers outside for 4 hours a day, and put them in the sun. Nothing beats the sun for keeping things vigorous.
Ive also been experimenting with tissue culture on and off since 1997. Except for 12 years I spent in fed prison. I was lucky I gave cuts to my buddy so I could get them back. But they got the best stuff I had, and the best stuff Ive seen since the early 70s. It was a late 80s NL5/Haze x 89 Skelly/Puck Hashplant x Sk1. Best stuff Ive ever seen for indoors, and only a few early 70s outdoor varieties could equal it. Closest stuff I saw to it was 1972 Santa Marta Sinsemella. First time Id ever seen seedless. It was like smoking sweet flowers. Super paranoid buzz. And choke your brains out. All the best stuff back then would choke you to death, had a huge crash, super long lasting high, hangover, and super munchies. Not to mention make your eyes bleed.
Seeds have their place though. Ive also found clones that havent lost their vigor yield better than the original seed plant.
I bought a Chem91skva cut for $500 almost 2 years ago, and would buy it again. It reeks of gas, and is super potent. Some peple dont like it because its so strong.
Though some of the mothers I have I hunted myself. I F2d 2 packs ( 36 seeds ) of Mr Nice Super Silver Haze 10 years ago, went through 200+ females to find the mother I liked, and sill have it. Huge producer. One of the best. Fast growing, and easy to clone.
I also have a 20+ years old cut of the original 1999 AK47, and its as vigorous as it ever was. It reeks of flowers, and catpiss, and has a Anise Seed, and flowers taste. This shit reeks as much as any youll find. Will defeat any filter. I had a qp in the refrigerator, double bagged in an upstairs apartment I lived in almost 20 years ago, and you could smell it all the way out in the parking lot. 50 feet away.
I myself like the floral/hash taste, and reek of catpiss, and flowers type weed the best. Better than any RKS.
Have a cut of Blue Orca Haze from 5 years ago, and went through 50 females to find it. It tastes like menthol, gas, and hash. Super choke, and long lasting high.
Have 2 mothers of Dominion Seed Company Local Skunk. I pheno hunted 1 of the, and bought another one from a guy thats friends with Duke Diamond. It tests at 27%. Both super choke
Have a mother of Dominion Granny Skunk. Its a hashy, sour apples smell, and tastes like sour apples, and hash. Also super choke
I have a mother of 2005 Willie Nelson thats fire, and takes 100 days to flower. Doesnt stop growing until day 80 of flowering. It stretches 7 times its size when flipped. Flip it at 1 foot, and it will be 7 feet when done. Its best grown on 12/12 throughtout its cycle. Not done outside until Mid November. Too bad this strain isnt still available.
I keep these under 2 x Gavita 1150w DE HPS, and supply supplemental UVA/B since 2015. Solacure. I used to use 1000w Hortilux HPS, but the DE cover more area, but are hotter. Huge Infrared. Luckily I have good AC, and tremendous fresh air flow. I also veg under Gavita 1700e, 1000w Hortilux, and Gavita 1150w DE. Seedlings, and clones are blasted from day one, after clones root of course. I also have a partner who keeps some of these mothers for me. Weve been working together since the 80s. Ive known him since the 60s.
Id pay $1000+ for the Original Skelly/Puck Hashplant
Id pay $1000+ for the original PNW Haashplant, which is the mother of the Skelly/Puck
Id pay $1000 for the male cut of the Skelly x Sk1 that Duke Diamond used. Good males are as hard, or harder to find than the females.
Also in the summer, I take my mothers outside for 4 hours a day, and put them in the sun. Nothing beats the sun for keeping things vigorous.
Ive also been experimenting with tissue culture on and off since 1997. Except for 12 years I spent in fed prison. I was lucky I gave cuts to my buddy so I could get them back. But they got the best stuff I had, and the best stuff Ive seen since the early 70s. It was a late 80s NL5/Haze x 89 Skelly/Puck Hashplant x Sk1. Best stuff Ive ever seen for indoors, and only a few early 70s outdoor varieties could equal it. Closest stuff I saw to it was 1972 Santa Marta Sinsemella. First time Id ever seen seedless. It was like smoking sweet flowers. Super paranoid buzz. And choke your brains out. All the best stuff back then would choke you to death, had a huge crash, super long lasting high, hangover, and super munchies. Not to mention make your eyes bleed.
Seeds have their place though. Ive also found clones that havent lost their vigor yield better than the original seed plant.
Willy B. Goode
Well-Known Member
Into the ether to spend eternity with farts and socks that go into the dryer never to be seen again.Where does a thought go when it's forgotten?
mudballs
Well-Known Member
Willy B. Goode
Well-Known Member
I'd drop a hundo for that. Would have to be in-person though, not through-the-mail.
Rurumo
Well-Known Member
The irony is, some of the prettiest, insane bag appeal weed out their is totally mediocre smoke. Take a close look at the frost on some of those elite clones that look totally white with trichomes-the trichomes have massive long stalks, but the actual number of trichomes isn't any different from any other good weed. The potency is in the head, and even that varies from plant to plant. How a plant looks isn't a good indicator of potency. Now if your intent is to take some good pictures, by all means have at the elite clones. I think most people would have more fun with a pack of say, a Compound Apples and Bananas cross, than with a $1500 clone because the pack is like a dozen lottery tickets. Those kind of chucks are fun if you go in with zero expectations and then let yourself be surprised if you find something interesting.
jimihendrix1
Well-Known Member
Lots of hemp out there thats insanely trichome covered, that has no buzz. Looks can be decieving. As far as an RKS clone, Id have t know the seller, and they would have to have many verified transactions to people who are also reputable, before Id drop alot of money for the clone.
The main genetics Im interested in is pure Haze, NL5, Skelly Hashplant, and I have original Sk1 seeds from the 80s. As well as NL5.
The main genetics Im interested in is pure Haze, NL5, Skelly Hashplant, and I have original Sk1 seeds from the 80s. As well as NL5.
Tangerine_
Well-Known Member
I think thats the point though. For a cut to make it to true elite status it has to check ALL the boxes. Not just a couple...all of them. Unique terp and cannabiniod profiles are at the top of the list for me. They need to wash well and smoke even better. There's a reason some of these cuts demand the price they do and it has not one thing to do with "looks".
Most seasoned growers dont give rats ass about pretty pics. I know for me, personally, some of my most photogentic plants were the biggest let down (I'm looking at you In-House). They had the appearance of frost but the return was dismal and the terp profiles were like bland like cardboard.
I want those loud greasy gritty girls with big fat trich heads that'll peel my wig back.
ComputerSaysNo
Well-Known Member
I have cloned the first plant that I've ever grown, all my knowledge being theoretical (Cervantes book). 75% success rate on the clones. Back then I did not even have Clonex, I used a natural willow bark extract. Cloned in coco with a heating mat and a humidity dome.
A few months ago me and my friend cloned a Critical Kush female on a whim, took ~18 cuts, all of them rooted. Used Clonex that time, and rock wool.
I'm pretty sure the "glass of water on the window sill" method works as well, just takes longer.
Honestly I have no idea how to mess up cloning, let alone so consistently.
Going from clone to harvest is faster than going from seed; popping new seeds all the time only make sense if you grow autos or are pheno hunting (and/or breeding). From an economical perspective it always makes more sense to keep an elite mother and grow from clones.
Clones take the guess work and fun out of it for me so I prefer seed unless I'm swapping my own cuttings with friends. I like searching different banks and strains and looking at the deceitful pictures and strain descriptions. My dispensary has clones sometimes and I walk right past the disease infested light starved bastards without even looking at the strain. Don't get me wrong I grew a few and the genetics were superior to maybe 80% of my seed plants but the grow didn't have the enthusiasm of a seed grow for me. I grow for myself btw
xtsho
Well-Known Member
I'll never be a believer in this "Elite" status as a reason that clones are worth what some are paying. There is some myth that you have to hunt through thousands of seed to find some super special pheno. I think that's bullshit. I've found plenty of "Elite" phenos growing from seed. They grew were great and then were gone. Something as good or better will come along and it will be gone as well as I don't bother cloning or keeping mothers.
I've made plenty of crosses that are great. I also have dozens I've never even grown out to see how they turn out.
Another thing is talk of what you'd pay for some cut of some strain from back in the day. I wouldn't pay anything. It's also a contradiction because you see many saying how weed has gotten better over the years because of these "Elite" breeders yet they still reminisce about these old strains and what something like that would be worth. Why would they be worth anything if today's weed is better?
I've been growing a Sensible Seeds branded Night Nurse for years. Old Timers I've known for years that smoke close to a 1/4 oz a day always ask if I have any. It knocks you into the dirt with just a couple of hits. What more do you need? Is that not elite enough? It looks, smells, and tastes great along with excellent bag appeal. I ended up making a bunch of fem seeds to give away since everyone just loved it with some saying it was some of the best weed they've ever smoked.
Another thing is the grower. You can spend $1000 on a some "Elite" cut but if you can't grow it to it's potential you're not getting the same thing someone else might. Some can grow a generic strain and end up with a better product than someone growing the latest overpriced hyped up cut of this or that.
The reality is that everything is driven by hype and a picture of what someone else grew. That means absolutely nothing. Most people can't get those results.
The clone and seed game is just that. And it's a game I'm not playing. Those that want to are free to do so. I'll continue to grow excellent quality cannabis without the need for all this "Elite" nonsense. Everything cannabis is overpriced. From seeds to clones. Nutrients to supplies. Anything cannabis specific is overpriced because there is a big pool of individuals that fall for all the hype and marketing.
I wish everyone the best of success with their grows regardless of what they spend to do it.
I've made plenty of crosses that are great. I also have dozens I've never even grown out to see how they turn out.
Another thing is talk of what you'd pay for some cut of some strain from back in the day. I wouldn't pay anything. It's also a contradiction because you see many saying how weed has gotten better over the years because of these "Elite" breeders yet they still reminisce about these old strains and what something like that would be worth. Why would they be worth anything if today's weed is better?
I've been growing a Sensible Seeds branded Night Nurse for years. Old Timers I've known for years that smoke close to a 1/4 oz a day always ask if I have any. It knocks you into the dirt with just a couple of hits. What more do you need? Is that not elite enough? It looks, smells, and tastes great along with excellent bag appeal. I ended up making a bunch of fem seeds to give away since everyone just loved it with some saying it was some of the best weed they've ever smoked.
Another thing is the grower. You can spend $1000 on a some "Elite" cut but if you can't grow it to it's potential you're not getting the same thing someone else might. Some can grow a generic strain and end up with a better product than someone growing the latest overpriced hyped up cut of this or that.
The reality is that everything is driven by hype and a picture of what someone else grew. That means absolutely nothing. Most people can't get those results.
The clone and seed game is just that. And it's a game I'm not playing. Those that want to are free to do so. I'll continue to grow excellent quality cannabis without the need for all this "Elite" nonsense. Everything cannabis is overpriced. From seeds to clones. Nutrients to supplies. Anything cannabis specific is overpriced because there is a big pool of individuals that fall for all the hype and marketing.
I wish everyone the best of success with their grows regardless of what they spend to do it.
