Edward Snowden is an freedom fighter exposing crimes against America's Constitution

[Roger A. Shrubber]

Do you believe one can know what somebody is thinking?

Looking at his behavior, I don't see any venal corrupt taking of advantage from his actions. He was a celebrated academic in a very high position with access to the top levels of government. He would have been much better off personally if he hadn't blown the whistle. He lost everything he had been working for when he released those papers. He faced significant jail time too and only got off because Nixon's dogs invalidated their case by breaking into the offfice of the psychiatrist that Ellsberg was seeing.

There is a difference between skepticism and cynicism. It's fine to question somebody's motives. A skeptic will try to answer those questions. Cynics simply believe everybody is venally acting in their own self interest. Rather than simply doubt and question, how about telling me what Ellsberg did that validates your belief? From everything I've seen there is no reason to believe he released those papers "because they were afraid of what will happen if they don't".

no, but i believe most people are compelled to try...it's built into us to do so.....
i have a strict code of morals i live by. i try to not impose the standards i use to judge my own behavior on other people, but i don't really have another metric to use..the reasons you do something are as, or more, important than the things you do....
if you do something "charitable", are you doing it to help someone else? or to make yourself feel better?
if you help someone, are you helping them because that's what you're supposed to do, or do you have some ulterior motive?
if you condemn someone....why? do you have a legitimate reason? or are they just annoying you..or making you see something in yourself that you don't want to see?
i fall well below my own standards, often....but not nearly as often as most other people i encounter
when i look at Daniel Ellesberg....i can't make a real call about his motives, so i'll give him the benefit of the doubt....but the doubt exists....
making those revelations is surely an attempt to undo some of the damage he had already done....but why?
to save the world? or to save his own soul?....again....to me....there is a difference.

 

[Fogdog]

no, but i believe most people are compelled to try...it's built into us to do so.....
i have a strict code of morals i live by. i try to not impose the standards i use to judge my own behavior on other people, but i don't really have another metric to use..the reasons you do something are as, or more, important than the things you do....
if you do something "charitable", are you doing it to help someone else? or to make yourself feel better?
if you help someone, are you helping them because that's what you're supposed to do, or do you have some ulterior motive?
if you condemn someone....why? do you have a legitimate reason? or are they just annoying you..or making you see something in yourself that you don't want to see?
i fall well below my own standards, often....but not nearly as often as most other people i encounter
when i look at Daniel Ellesberg....i can't make a real call about his motives, so i'll give him the benefit of the doubt....but the doubt exists....
making those revelations is surely an attempt to undo some of the damage he had already done....but why?
to save the world? or to save his own soul?....again....to me....there is a difference.

We are different people, that's for sure.

 

[Roger A. Shrubber]

We are different people, that's for sure.

and we can talk without calling each other morons, or cocksuckers...or worse....how do we manage that?

 

[Unclebaldrick]

and we can talk without calling each other morons, or cocksuckers...or worse....how do we manage that?

Well it helps a lot that neither of you are morons. But they exist.

 

[Roger A. Shrubber]

Well it helps a lot that neither of you are morons. But they exist.

well, thank you, i appreciate that....but i'm not so sure... i know me a lot better than you do......

 

[ttystikk]

and we can talk without calling each other morons, or cocksuckers...or worse....how do we manage that?

With competent moderation.

 

[Roger A. Shrubber]

With competent moderation.

by who?

 

[ttystikk]

Mr Snowden, in his own words.

 

[Unclebaldrick]

by who?

Somebody who represent HIS interests.

 

[TacoMac]

Mr Snowden, in his own words.

A complete fraud. A rant of nothing but self interest and denial.

Pal, your relatives that served would be first in line to shoot your worthless ass in the head if they are worth anything at all.

If something goes down in service to your country, you report it to your superiors. If that isn't an option because they are involved, you take it to straight to NCIS or JAG's offices, or you take it anonymously to the press as a last resort.

YOU DO NOT BUY A ONE WAY TICKET TO THE ENEMY AND TRY TO SELL IT.

Traitor.

 

[Roger A. Shrubber]

^

 

[ttystikk]

^

At least try to get the whole story before leaving to conclusions.

 

[Fogdog]

That's not at all what happened. First, he and his co-workers DID try to use the chain of command and they got shut down.

Then he gave the information to the guardian in Hong Kong, along with supporting documents. Emphasis on 'have'.

Revisionist history much?

Moron.

^^This coming from the guy who says Obama governed to the left of Reagan? You don't have much room to talk about revisionist history.

 

[Fogdog]

At least try to get the whole story before leaving to conclusions.

Yeah, yeah, says the guy who claimed Skripal was not poisoned by Russians.

 

[TacoMac]

At least try to get the whole story before leaving to conclusions.

That is the whole story: he bought a first class, one way ticket to China and tried to sell his information to them for an apartment and several million dollars.

That's it.

That's all there is.

China told him to fuck off, so he went to Russia and tried to sell it to them.

They told him to fuck off as well.

The only reason he's allowed to stay is because idiots that believe his made up, self serving bullshit pay the Russians to provide for him.

Every word he says is a lie. He never gave a shit about anybody but himself. He was such an idiot that he actually thought his information was worth something.

It wasn't.

He, like most early millennials, was too young to really sit down, watch CSPAN, and see all the hearings on the patriot act. Had he been 10 years older, he would have known full well that his 'information' was worthless.

But hey, that's the entire millennial way of thinking: read something on social media, accept it as fact and plan your life accordingly.

Snowden and Billy McFarland are exactly alike.

 

[ttystikk]

^^This coming from the guy who says Obama governed to the left of Reagan? You don't have much room to talk about revisionist history.

No, I said Obama himself admitted he governed to the RIGHT of Reagan. And I posted the link to the interview where he said it.

You're hopelessly politically dyslexic.

 

[TacoMac]

No, I said Obama himself admitted he governed to the RIGHT of Reagan. And I posted the link to the interview where he said it.

You're hopelessly politically dyslexic.

Wrong again. You quoted @Roger A. Shrubber approval of my post about Snowden and said to know the whole story first.

It had nothing at all to do with Obama.

Learn to follow the conversation.

 

[ttystikk]

That is the whole story: he bought a first class, one way ticket to China and tried to sell his information to them for an apartment and several million dollars.

That's it.

That's all there is.

China told him to fuck off, so he went to Russia and tried to sell it to them.

They told him to fuck off as well.

The only reason he's allowed to stay is because idiots that believe his made up, self serving bullshit pay the Russians to provide for him.

Every word he says is a lie. He never gave a shit about anybody but himself. He was such an idiot that he actually thought his information was worth something.

It wasn't.

He, like most early millennials, was too young to really sit down, watch CSPAN, and see all the hearings on the patriot act. Had he been 10 years older, he would have known full well that his 'information' was worthless.

But hey, that's the entire millennial way of thinking: read something on social media, accept it as fact and plan your life accordingly.

Snowden and Billy McFarland are exactly alike.

This is blatant disinformation. He gave the documents to the Guardian newspaper- for free- while he was in Hong Kong.

That's why the British Home Office raided the Guardian and forced them to smash computers- nonsensically in London- while they looked on.

The Feds have been lying about and smearing Snowden desperately ever since because they know he caught them blatantly violating the Constitution and applicable law and the only way they can escape Justice is to keep manipulating public opinion. So keep on being their stooge!

If you think Snowden belongs in prison then you're okay with giving up the Bill of Rights in favor of outright authoritarianism.

 

[ttystikk]

Wrong again. You quoted @Roger A. Shrubber approval of my post about Snowden and said to know the whole story first.

It had nothing at all to do with Obama.

Learn to follow the conversation.

I know what I said.

Quit gaslighting. It just screams 'I know I lost the argument'

 

[TacoMac]

He gave the documents to a Chinese official trying to buy his ability to stay in China after they told him to fuck off.

He didn't give anything to the media until he was desperate and was getting kicked out of the country and was holed up in the Airport with nowhere to go.