convince me led is worth it.

Budies 101

Budies 101

Well-Known Member
I'm sorry, you plan to spend 4,000$ on 2 mid ranger led lights???

Almost makes me want to look at selling my lights for half the cost and better parts.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
OneHitDone said:
We all want to see an led light that truly replaces hid in all aspects of plant growth AND significantly reduces wattage.
People are growing dank with led but there always seems to be a "catch". Oh, your temps were this, your cal-mag that, or whatever.
A true hid replacement will be able to be directly swapped with an hid by any grower and just do what is expected.
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I disagree. The 'correct' environment and nutrient combination for HPS is not and need not be the same as what's optimum for LED- why should it?

Spectrum is different and so are output characteristics. Adjusting environment and nutes accordingly is logical and should be expected.

I got better results when I ran a warmer room and higher nutrient strength under LED than under HID. Once I got it right, my average gpw went up by 30% and could have been even better with further refinements.

The hardest thing to quantify, yet IMO the most important, is quality. LED gave me consistently better quality, that's a unanimous opinion from everyone who saw it and smoked it.

My two cents.
 
Chip Green

Chip Green

Well-Known Member
Abiqua said:
The only catch is photon delivery, not hard to understand.

Deliver as many photons per sq ft as a HPS and fuck around with spectrum at same time. Rinse Repeat.
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Build some lights man...no way will you regret it.
I learned everything I ever needed to know, from square one, about DIY LED tech, with direction from this forum, and its many, MANY knowledgeable posters....
 
CCCmints

CCCmints

Well-Known Member
I was in the same boat as you probably a month ago. Now HPS doesn't even make sense, at all. A well-known member of another community tested his 1000w HPS DE light and observed a 28% degradation in light output by the HPS bulb within 3 months. The heat differences depend on where you're growing. Some places need cooling, some need heating at certain times of the year. You seem like one who won't care much for the difference in heat, which is substantial. Electricity savings...That's of-course a given factor in favor of LED, but your real savings are in not needing to replace the bulbs after every cycle. If your LED fixture costed you $1,900 (which is absurd for a 1000w HPS replacement) it would take you FAR less than 3 years to pay off the extra cost of LED.

What you need to do is dive into the research like I did. I will help you as will many of the members here. You need to build the fixture yourself. I can replace a 1000w HPS DE for under $800...No, I'm not kidding. I choose the word 'replace' over 'equivalent' because this fixture would quite possibly outperform the 1000w HPS.
CCCmints said:
Thanks, I appreciate all the input you've given. It looks like I'm going with almost exactly what you're suggesting.

Vero 29 SE Gen 7 3000k running @ 38.7v x 2.1a (81.27w).


So 1647.018PPF vs >2,000PPF (Solis Tek 1000w DE HPS) initial output...With 28% degradation after 3 months as a member on another forum tested that puts the HPS at 1440PPF in 3 months. I'd be surprised if the HPS bulb really reaches those numbers in initial out put anyways to be honest. But I think I've finally got a cost-effective match or maybe even superior fixture to HPS with the Vero 29 SE Gen 7 3000k running @ 38.7v x 2.1a (81.27w).

Total cost of the fixture would be around $776.60.
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That would be 9 COBs. Your fixtures could be 3'x3' and they might out perform 1000w HPS (will absolutely, without a doubt match HPS)...Buying an LED right now instead of building one yourself really doesn't make sense.

In short, if you want to put in the effort, then LED is better than HPS by miles. If you don't, buy HPS and you'll be fine anyways...Just not as fine as those running DIY LED fixtures.
 
OneHitDone

OneHitDone

Well-Known Member
ttystikk said:
I disagree. The 'correct' environment and nutrient combination for HPS is not and need not be the same as what's optimum for LED- why should it?

Spectrum is different and so are output characteristics. Adjusting environment and nutes accordingly is logical and should be expected.

I got better results when I ran a warmer room and higher nutrient strength under LED than under HID. Once I got it right, my average gpw went up by 30% and could have been even better with further refinements.

The hardest thing to quantify, yet IMO the most important, is quality. LED gave me consistently better quality, that's a unanimous opinion from everyone who saw it and smoked it.

My two cents.
Click to expand...
Clearly you lack experience growing plants under natural sunlight or you would know that nutrients designed for greenhouse/natural sunlight environment work under HID lighting without all the "special" adjustments led peoples preach. You don't get all of the oddball growth characteristics and deficiencies we keep seeing in led grows.
The spectrum in 98% of led's on the market is lacking.... period
@welight is onto something with the multi-chip design
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
OneHitDone said:
Clearly you lack experience growing plants under natural sunlight or you would know that nutrients designed for greenhouse/natural sunlight environment work under HID lighting without all the "special" adjustments led peoples preach. You don't get all of the oddball growth characteristics and deficiencies we keep seeing in led grows.
The spectrum in 98% of led's on the market is lacking.... period
@welight is onto something with the multi-chip design
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Clearly you jump to conclusions based on your confirmation bias against LED lighting, leading you to say things about people you have no way to verify.

The change is just nutrient strength, and I clearly mentioned that in the post you quoted. Altering EC is not exactly a 'special adjustment', at least not asking anyone I know in horticulture. My guess is that you already had some preconceived idea that led you to ignore what I said.

If you can't stand the idea of using LED lighting, then my advice to you is to stick with light bulbs, k?

There are still some people out there using horse and buggy to get around, after all.

Lol

Just kidding!

Here, look at some of my terrible LED grown plants. These only pulled 25oz each from their 5 gallon buckets of substrate and grew to be a lousy 6 feet tall. Second rate stuff, sorry to disappoint;
20170131_214455.jpg
 
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K

key4

Well-Known Member
ttystikk said:
Clearly you jump to conclusions based on your confirmation bias against LED lighting, leading you to say things about people you have no way to verify.

The change is just nutrient strength, and I clearly mentioned that in the post you quoted. Altering EC is not exactly a 'special adjustment', at least not asking anyone I know in horticulture. My guess is that you already had some preconceived idea that led you to ignore what I said.

If you can't stand the idea of using LED lighting, then my advice to you is to stick with light bulbs, k?

There are still some people out there using horse and buggy to get around, after all.

Lol

Just kidding!

Here, look at some of my terrible LED grown plants. These only pulled 25oz each from their 5 gallon buckets of substrate and grew to be a lousy 6 feet tall. Second rate stuff, sorry to disappoint;
View attachment 4010628
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I wouldnt be swinging my cock about with plants that look like that ....
 
K

key4

Well-Known Member
Ah i see you're one of them guys that turns it around on the other person Instead of just saying "Yeah mate, i fed them weedkiller by mistake" Its a simple mistake we all do it lol
 
Rahz

Rahz

Well-Known Member
stoned-monkey said:
I guess maybe a better question is why did you go led?
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I went LED at the time because it was just as good as HPS (with right components) and I needed to fill a 34"x7' area which would have been awkward to try and fill with high wattage bulbs. Back then there were no retail cob lights so I made my own. I had a reasonable estimation of how efficient the emitters would be and thus was able to calculate how many par watts I would be able to deliver to the area.

In fact, I started with a goal, light intensity of around 15 par watts per square foot and then designed the lamp around that parameter. I enjoyed the process so much I started a small business based on it.

Why go LED? It's a light right? How much light do you want? If you buy something and that something is a light producing unit the prime consideration is how much light is being produced and how efficiently it is being produced. Watts in and watts out. Secondary consideration is maintenance cost.

LED lamps that deliver less than 42% efficiency are mostly worthless. Why buy a light that can't compete with the best bulbs out there? Unless of course you have an odd space like I did, but even then if you have a choice between a 30% efficient lamp, a 50% efficient lamp, and a lamp with unknown efficiency which would you choose?

Prices have come down but good LED isn't a cheap alternative to bulbs. If you purchase something cheaper than a 1000w bulb rig and expect it to perform as well as a 1000w bulb rig you will be disappointed. Currently LED cost compared to DE bulbs is about break even over a 4-5 year period. Not long ago this was true of SE bulbs. But it depends on several factors, material cost and efficiency. If you pay 2x for an LED that is only 5% more efficient than a DE bulb are you going to recoup that extra money over 5 years? Probably not.

If you're spending money, take the time to know what you're getting. If you want to purchase retail and the vendor/manufacturer doesn't or won't provide the details necessary to quantify how many par watts or PPF you're purchasing that's a good sign their product can't compete with bulbs. If you want to DIY, take the time to learn the basics so you can design the system with a specific PAR wattage goal, plan out a components list that will deliver that goal and then build it.
 
CCCmints

CCCmints

Well-Known Member
key4 said:
I wouldnt be swinging my cock about with plants that look like that ....
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You have to be kidding? What do you see wrong with those plants? Maybe you're knocking on them because it's a different grow style than you're used to. Those plants look healthy and produce. It's a fairly impressive picture really...Then again, we are talking LED vs HPS so of-course shit talking is to be expected. Y'all can stay stuck in the past lol the numbers don't lie. HPS isn't king anymore. Those capable and willing to do the research for LED come out on top. Lazy shit talkers who denounce LED stay where they are and fail to improve, fail to evolve.

With all the shit talking against LED and people who choose to use it, I'd be willing to put money on the idea that maybe these people just don't know how to do the research. I understand, it's not exactly simple or easy to do it right. But I ask of you folks, if you can't figure it out, just respect those who can and don't make an ass out of yourself shitting on a pic of someone's plants. I mean honestly, what kind of asshole even does that?

Still waiting on that technical argument in favor of HPS. Any shit talkers got one? Lol. I'm ready.
 
D

Dr.Nick Riviera

Well-Known Member
CCCmints said:
You have to be kidding? What do you see wrong with those plants? Maybe you're knocking on them because it's a different grow style than you're used to. Those plants look healthy and produce. It's a fairly impressive picture really...Then again, we are talking LED vs HPS so of-course shit talking is to be expected. Y'all can stay stuck in the past lol the numbers don't lie. HPS isn't king anymore. Those capable and willing to do the research for LED come out on top. Lazy shit talkers who denounce LED stay where they are and fail to improve, fail to evolve.

With all the shit talking against LED and people who choose to use it, I'd be willing to put money on the idea that maybe these people just don't know how to do the research. I understand, it's not exactly simple or easy to do it right. But I ask of you folks, if you can't figure it out, just respect those who can and don't make an ass out of yourself shitting on a pic of someone's plants. I mean honestly, what kind of asshole even does that?

Still waiting on that technical argument in favor of HPS. Any shit talkers got one? Lol. I'm ready.
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every time I shit On you guys, I just get locked out because you are all so damn sensitive and don't like to hear the truth, so, go ahead and pump yourself up with your overpriced, over hyped, garage built street lights. I'm STILL over here getting 3 units a light with my gavita and my $95 a year bulb.
 
The Dawg

The Dawg

Well-Known Member
OneHitDone said:
You don't get all of the oddball growth characteristics and deficiencies we keep seeing in led grows.

@welight is onto something with the multi-chip design
Click to expand...
Brother I Have To Disagree With This One. The Only Deficiencies I Get Is Magnesium When Running The White Widow Strain. I Get This Where Under Hps Outside Or Led White Widow Is A Mag Whore. Now Weird Growth Is All Genetics :weed:
 
lukio

lukio

Well-Known Member
Dr.Nick Riviera said:
every time I shit On you guys, I just get locked out because you are all so damn sensitive and don't like to hear the truth, so, go ahead and pump yourself up with your overpriced, over hyped, garage built street lights. I'm STILL over here getting 3 units a light with my gavita and my $95 a year bulb.
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youre the only doctor i know that doesnt science
 
CCCmints

CCCmints

Well-Known Member
Dr.Nick Riviera said:
every time I shit On you guys, I just get locked out because you are all so damn sensitive and don't like to hear the truth, so, go ahead and pump yourself up with your overpriced, over hyped, garage built street lights. I'm STILL over here getting 3 units a light with my gavita and my $95 a year bulb.
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Do you not realize how comical your response is? You just did exactly what every HPS guy LED naysayer does lmao! You don't have shit to say and you don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

Technical argument please....Still waiting. Leave the shit talking for people who care.
 
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