Gavita double ended...

[churchhaze]

They just came out 2 weeks ago. The build I posted is the first DIY build using cxb, let alone top bin. I only post results privately if people ask, and if they actually have content of their own (like you)

 

[dbkick]

Oh and Supra I think you referred to the phililps de lamp, I won't be using one of those, I've gone with the best ushio de lamp I could find. The numbers may be similar but not the same.

 

[SupraSPL]

Church is on the bleeding edge with those. Another way you can achieve that level is by running CXA3070 3K ABs at 700mA. They are 50.4% efficient, (2.46umol/W), very little lateral loss and almost no temp droop. The downside, it cost more to go that route and the CXB will get a better spread.

Another nod to the new HPS setups, they claim very high ballast/driver efficiency 95-96%. That is pretty cool eventually all of our grow lamps, LED and HID will be able to reach those numbers reducing waste and heat.

 

[Greengenes707]

1150w is 1150w of heat no matter how you spin it.

I have two close friends pulling 2.5-3 units per light consistently since gavita came out and were barely getting 2 before. I have been in the gardens and seen it first hand...gavitas/DE's are fucking impressive.

There's alway different reflectors for low height situations, like the epapion or wings for low ceilings.

At the beginning out this run I almost bought one after seeing my friends rooms. If I had 12" more inches(to get to 8') of headroom I would get one myself to play with.

A far as how much direct light is made before converting to heat...gavita/phillips/all DE's are straight up putting out more µmols/w than any conventional mogul base. And just how that improved efficiency improves led's performance...it does for hps. And is shown in the µmols/w.
Gavita is not 2.1µmols/w(your forgetting their correct wattage to achieve 2100µmols)...they are 1.82µmols/w...2100µmols/1150w=1.82µmols/w
CXA3070 at 1.4 amps is hitting 99.099µmols/51.892w=1.91µmols/s...and many of the guys here are running much more efficient than that and hitting solidly over 2µmols/w for real...then the CXB's are only going to put back the separation that the DE's made up for.
Anyone whos says DE's suck or anything negative performance wise...you're freaking crazy...they are legit on papaer and in reality...and substantially better than any mogul.
BUT...CXA's, Vero29's, and of course CXB's will hang with less wattage and will outperform watt vs watt.

Here is some data from a lighting study that shows some more realistic in use PPF/watt figures for hps and most conventional lighting. Unfortunately no CXA/B/VERO.

http://growershouse.com/images/PDFs/BUGBEEpub__6441190.pdf

EDIT:
Damn supra...you bet me to it...it took me too long to find my old calcs. Thanks for the new CXB numbers.
You guys all posted so much so fast.

 

[PSUAGRO.]

Since it's no more than the same lights some us have been using for decades now I don't see wattage a factor no.
I intend to use the sealed air cooled feature of the hood I bought so there will be an extra pane of glass but I really don't see that as a problem since it allows me to run co2. I'll take the glass out and run a 10000k mh for the last couple weeks anyway. If you're saying do I think there's been a improvement made to the old tried and true HID? Hell yes.

Your not cooling the bulb directly right? Voltage drop on the arc is no bueno, depending on air temp of course.

Gavita rep claims up to thirty percent light loss, which is a fucking lie.....no way I believe it's that high.

Maybe whazzup can pop in on his biannual visits ....Lol......and tell me I'm wrong.

 

[SupraSPL]

GG that is something I have wondering about. I have seen several different figures for the PPF of the 1000W DE bulbs. 1.74umol/W in the growershouse link you mentioned, 1.82 per your calculation and 2.07 in this chart from Gavita 2011 which puts the standard Hortilux at 1.8.


This study shows 1.7umol/W for both Gavita and ePapillion 1000W
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0099010#s3

So I am giving it the benefit of the doubt and calling it 2.07umol/W but it seems most sources are putting it at 1.7-1.8. Maybe the Gavita figures removed ballast losses?

I put the CXA3070 3K AB @ 1.4A (52W) at 2.11umol/W
(4.88umol/PAR W * .433 efficiency = 2.11umol/W)

 

[churchhaze]

What is the LER of the gavita? Do they publish it, or has anyone calculated it?

 

[Greengenes707]

Standard hps is 380+/-

 

[churchhaze]

Standard hps is 380+/-

So assuming 380lm/W LER from HPS spectrum, a specific HPS model that produced 150lm/W would be about 39.5% efficient? If it produced 140lm/W, it would be 36.8% efficient.

 

[AquariusPanta]

1150w is 1150w of heat no matter how you spin it.

Am I correct to assume that what you mean by "heat" is power or are you assuming the 1150W light fixture doesn't produce any light?

I would like to understand better.

 

[Greengenes707]

So assuming 380lm/W LER, an HPS that claimed 150lm/W would be about 39.5% efficient?

Yep...and is why the have always been the ones to beat.

 

[churchhaze]

Am I correct to assume that what you mean by "heat" is power or are you assuming the 1150W light fixture doesn't produce any light?

I would like to understand better.

Even a 100% efficient lamp will heat up the canopy/room. If you have a 100% efficient lamp that dissipates 100W electric watts of power, you will have 100W of radiation heating your room and 0W through conduction through the heat sink.

100% efficiency does not mean the energy just disappears. Most of the light that hits the plant only serves to heat up the leaves. Radiation and heat are the same thing.

 

[Greengenes707]

Am I correct to assume that what you mean by "heat" is power or are you assuming the 1150W light fixture doesn't produce any light?

I would like to understand better.

All light is eventually converted to heat. Whether by hitting surfaces, being reflected, being absorbed by plants even(pretty much anything)...all the wattage is eventually given back to the environment as heat. 3.412btu's every hour/watt...no matter what the efficiency or type of source it is.

The big difference with leds and hps/other conventional...it the IR/direct heat emitted in the beam of/as the beam of light. That is the canopy heat you feel with your hand...instead of the ambient heat you feel with the rest of your body...and the wattage is always contributing to the ambient heat. IR is the beams heat. It all goes as one...but hat is a clearer(imo) way of thinking about it for understanding.

 

[dbkick]

Your not cooling the bulb directly right? Voltage drop on the arc is no bueno, depending on air temp of course.

Gavita rep claims up to thirty percent light loss, which is a fucking lie.....no way I believe it's that high.

Maybe whazzup can pop in on his biannual visits ....Lol......and tell me I'm wrong.

I'm not even running the light yet since its taking 3 damn weeks to get the ballast.
Yes I'm cooling the lamp directly but it takes a very low cfm fan to keep the lamp at operating temp.
I'm using this hood (as soon as I get the ballast anyway. I have a some grape ape in veg dying to meet with that light!)
http://growershouse.com/phantom-6-ac-double-ended-reflector-unit-w-lens

it uses some sort of "ridge cooling " if I remember right but I think it cools directly.

 

[AquariusPanta]

All light is eventually converted to heat. Whether by hitting surfaces, being reflected, being absorbed by plants even(pretty much anything)...all the wattage is eventually give back to the environment as heat. 3.412btu's every hour/watt...no matter what the efficiency or type of source it is.

The big difference with leds and hps/other conventional...it the IR/direct heat emitted in the beam of/as the beam of light. That is the canopy heat you feel with your hand...instead of the ambient heat you feel with the rest of your body...and the wattage is always contributing to the ambient heat. IR is the beams heat. It all goes as one...but hat is a clearer)imo) way of thinking about it for understanding.

Even a 100% efficient lamp will heat up the canopy/room. If you have a 100% efficient lamp that dissipates 100W electric watts of power, you will have 100W of radiation heating your room and 0W through conduction through the heat sink.

100% efficiency does not mean the energy just disappears. Most of the light that hits the plant only serves to heat up the leaves. Radiation and heat are the same thing.

Thank you for the clarification and understanding fellas .

 

[churchhaze]

Just to be clear, I was totally joking when I said Gavita was for people too poor to afford cxb. Most of the people looking to buy prebuilt led systems should look to any HPS option instead. I've grown with HPS for years and know how good it is.

For my DIY setup, it would cost abut 1400 dollars in parts for a 4'x4' footprint, so for people with cheap electricity, it's not a no brain decision. The gavita is a sound choice with considerably lower startup cost than cxb.

T5 just doesn't make sense to me anymore though, even for veg. Why not just get 4 foot t8 for low startup cost, then upgrade to 5000k 70cri cxb for veg? The reason I say this is because T5 is already very expensive. I've always had success in veg with cheap 4 foot T12 shoplights. Imo, T5 is starting to look like a pointless in-between option.

 

[dbkick]

Just to be clear, I was totally joking when I said Gavita was for people too poor to afford cxb. Most of the people looking to buy prebuilt led systems should look to any HPS option instead. I've grown with HPS for years and know how good it is.

For my DIY setup, it would cost abut 1400 dollars in parts for a 4'x4' footprint, so for people with cheap electricity, it's not a no brain decision. The gavita is a sound choice with considerably lower startup cost than cxb.

T5 just doesn't make sense to me anymore though, even for veg. Why not just get 4 foot t8 for low startup cost, then upgrade to 5000k 70cri cxb for veg? The reason I say this is because T5 is already very expensive. I've always had success in veg with cheap 4 foot T12 shoplights. Imo, T5 is starting to look like a pointless in-between option.

t5 was made obsolete when someone freed it of it's electrodes but then that's a whole nother form of lighting isn't it?

 

[REALSTYLES]

Just to be clear, I was totally joking when I said Gavita was for people too poor to afford cxb. Most of the people looking to buy prebuilt led systems should look to any HPS option instead. I've grown with HPS for years and know how good it is.

For my DIY setup, it would cost abut 1400 dollars in parts for a 4'x4' footprint, so for people with cheap electricity, it's not a no brain decision. The gavita is a sound choice with considerably lower startup cost than cxb.

T5 just doesn't make sense to me anymore though, even for veg. Why not just get 4 foot t8 for low startup cost, then upgrade to 5000k 70cri cxb for veg? The reason I say this is because T5 is already very expensive. I've always had success in veg with cheap 4 foot T12 shoplights. Imo, T5 is starting to look like a pointless in-between option.

Well said I'm waiting for the CXB 3590's in 1 - 2 months from now. I myself have spent $3K+ on 5 panels and gonna build 4 more but CXB's.

 

[a senile fungus]

As for gavita 1000de, how many BTUs of cooling would be needed to keep it in optimum operating condition?

 

[PSUAGRO.]

Just to be clear, I was totally joking when I said Gavita was for people too poor to afford cxb. Most of the people looking to buy prebuilt led systems should look to any HPS option instead. I've grown with HPS for years and know how good it is.

For my DIY setup, it would cost abut 1400 dollars in parts for a 4'x4' footprint, so for people with cheap electricity, it's not a no brain decision. The gavita is a sound choice with considerably lower startup cost than cxb.

T5 just doesn't make sense to me anymore though, even for veg. Why not just get 4 foot t8 for low startup cost, then upgrade to 5000k 70cri cxb for veg? The reason I say this is because T5 is already very expensive. I've always had success in veg with cheap 4 foot T12 shoplights. Imo, T5 is starting to look like a pointless in-between option.

I don't think anyone is claiming that hps is no good in here...........they've been fucking rockstars for 30+yrs, I just don't believe DE is a significant bump, just minor over mogul(guess I'm crazy!). Also it's always nice to have a barebulb/ vert/stadium style option for personal grows, which probably evens the playing ground imo. Never used DE and I'm wrong allot................sooooooooooooooo;P

As for gavita 1000de, how many BTUs of cooling would be needed to keep it in optimum operating condition?

Depends on your insulation and the conditions of your room...

back in the day generally it was 6000btu's per open fixture thouie/ 4000btus absolute minimum and would run the compressor non-stop in warmer temps=== no good