Will Obama cave this time?

Obama says he will veto any deficit reduction plan that includes cuts to medicare/ss that does not also include revenue increases... Sounds fair enough, Republicans get cuts to entitlements and Democrats get their revenue, right? Well, in the Republican world revenue increases in any shape or form - delayed or not - are unacceptable.

So the question that immediately came to mind upon reading Obama's remarks was: Will Obama cave? Or maybe, when will Obama cave?

Also, I'd like to hear how the Obama haters feel about the proposed exchange and it's fairness - entitlement cuts/reform in exchange for revenue increases... I mean, he is essentially saying "no sacred cows"; Democrats give up entitlements, something they've defended for generations - and Republicans give up their childish "no taxes" pledge, which is something obviously very important to their constituents...

MuyLocoNC said:

I went ahead and altered your query to remove the obvious liberal slant so that fair-minded and rational people could answer it.

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If the Revenue is indeed much larger than the entitlement reform, I'd like a link... I haven't seen a complete breakdown of the plan only summaries.

There is no reason we cannot have an honest debate about this issue... I understand you dislike tax increases, think the Democrats like medicare cuts? No! Then why are Democrats willing to cut Medicare? In the name of compromise...

I know this is hard for you to understand but divided government demands compromise, or nothing gets done at all.

and you act like you edited the bias out of my last bit but all you did was slant it in the other direction... "Suicidal"? "common sense"[no taxes pledge]? "Obama Pant sniffing cheerleaders"? I mean, I know I used "Obama haters" (to avoid using the term righties, actually... For Neutron) and "childish" but if my language was slanted to the left - you fell off the cliff to the right.

How about instead of tax cuts and reforming social services, instead we stop bailing out LOSERS!! If we did that we would save TRILLIONS per year!!!

The LOSERS? the TBTF Banks, Insurance Companies, large manufacturers. No more "Do Overs".

NoDrama said:

How about instead of tax cuts and reforming social services, instead we stop bailing out LOSERS!! If we did that we would save TRILLIONS per year!!!

The LOSERS? the TBTF Banks, Insurance Companies, large manufacturers. No more "Do Overs".

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What are your thoughts on the actual topic here? We're structurally on a path to fiscal ruin ATM, Obama's plan apparently(again, haven't seen it myself) stablizes the national debt at around 70% - so it is an honest attempt at debt stabalization - but does it seem fair enough to you? taxes for entitlements?

Nothing will work until we get rid of the rot. You cannot build a stable economy on a rotten foundation. Common sense tells you this. Obama will cave, he has a Ego problem that won't let him stand against perceived hostility. A Florence Nightingale approach every time.

MuyLocoNC said:

I went ahead and altered your query to remove the obvious liberal slant so that fair-minded and rational people could answer it.

Click to expand...

and i went ahead and deleted your post to remove the insults that actual fair-minded and rational people have no need for using.

you're welcome.

::

Yes its true .. Obama Fucks Turtles.
But which Obama is the Turtle fucker.
[youtube]d_Z5KZ42GXw[/youtube]

Its not a matter of whether Obama fucks turtles but how many that is the question.
And also what does he promise these turtles that makes them wet.

I didn't vote in the poll BTW, I'm undecided. It's mostly because I hope he does fight for revenue increases (mostly by removing loopholes, etc..) but just like everyone else, I've watched him fold too many times...

Regardless of my feelings toward Obama, he will cave. He has not stood up and fought for anything he has proposed.
That is the one main thing I do not like about him, even if I am not on his side. Have a backbone! Stand up for what you think is right, fight for it, and accept the bruises one may get during the fight. He has never done that and I don't think he ever will. If he did, that may impress me and make me re-think my stance on things. He is inexperienced for this job and he does not have a fight in his heart. He is used to getting things given to him and now he is out of his element.
Even Bill Clinton stood up fighting NO NO NO I did not have a sexual relationship until it got to the point where he knew he was had and somewhat admitted to it. Yes, he was lying all the way, but he had a fight in his gut and he played it out.
Obama's ideas are carved in Jello. Always shifting and easily changed.
To be honest, I no longer care about Republicans, Democrats, Moderates, Liberals...Fix the damn economy damn it! Right now, no matter who or what anyone is, we are all equally fucked...Unless one is a member of congress then what ever they do does not apply to them...But if the economy and the country hits the rocks it will indeed apply to them. They just don't see that far out into the future.

Sometimes he has no choice


Republicans hold unemployment extensions hostage to get tax cuts for the rich.
December 5th, 2010 11:18 pm ET .
....http://www.examiner.com/celebrity-icons-in-national/republicans-hold-unemployment-extensions-hostage-to-get-tax-cuts-for-the-rich

dukeanthony said:

Sometimes he has no choice


Republicans hold unemployment extensions hostage to get tax cuts for the rich.
December 5th, 2010 11:18 pm ET .
....http://www.examiner.com/celebrity-icons-in-national/republicans-hold-unemployment-extensions-hostage-to-get-tax-cuts-for-the-rich

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That article says that giving tax cuts will cause even more deficits. Does everyone understand what this means? It means that the tax cuts that the rich get will now leave a hole in the budget which will have to be financed to fill. Who is responsible for paying off the US public debt? Why the Public of course. The middle class will pay for the tax cuts for the rich and the lower classes will lose some benefits. The rich will gain everything the Middle and lower classes lose. Just one more in a long series of scams to keeping the poor, poor and the rich, rich.
For every Million Dollars the rich get to keep, the middle class will finance and pay $2 million.

The Flat tax looks better all the time.

I would "like" your Comment But a Flat tax is even worse

Name one Flat tax scamnario that taxes investment income or capital gains

And why is it the Rich like Malcolm Forbes are the ones pushing for a Flat tax?

dukeanthony said:

Name one Flat tax scamnario that taxes investment income or capital gains

And why is it the Rich like Malcolm Forbes are the ones pushing for a Flat tax?

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Most flat taxes tax any kind of income, not just wages. Investment income would be taxed. Capital gains would not be taxed, but that wouldn't make things much different than they are now in that aspect since people only pay a Maximum of 15% today anyway.

You seem to insinuate that Because Malcolm Forbes is wealthy and he likes the flat tax that there must be something wrong with it since you cannot trust a rich person cuz eveyone knows that all rich people got that way by lying, stealing, cheating. No such thing as a honest rich person . right?

Why is it the poor advocate a progressive tax system? Its not doing them any favors, its actually cheating them.

NoDrama said:

Most flat taxes tax any kind of income, not just wages. Investment income would be taxed. Capital gains would not be taxed, but that wouldn't make things much different than they are now in that aspect since people only pay a Maximum of 15% today anyway.

You seem to insinuate that Because Malcolm Forbes is wealthy and he likes the flat tax that there must be something wrong with it since you cannot trust a rich person cuz eveyone knows that all rich people got that way by lying, stealing, cheating. No such thing as a honest rich person . right?

Why is it the poor advocate a progressive tax system? Its not doing them any favors, its actually cheating them.

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What we have now is a mess, I'm sure we can all agree, but a flat tax isn't the answer IMO. the problem with our system is that there are just too many incentives and loopholes... something along the lines of 28-21-14 with no more loopholes would probably work fine, anthing really - but it has to be progressive for the sake of the nations economic stability.

NoDrama said:

Most flat taxes tax any kind of income, not just wages. Investment income would be taxed. Capital gains would not be taxed, but that wouldn't make things much different than they are now in that aspect since people only pay a Maximum of 15% today anyway.

You seem to insinuate that Because Malcolm Forbes is wealthy and he likes the flat tax that there must be something wrong with it since you cannot trust a rich person cuz eveyone knows that all rich people got that way by lying, stealing, cheating. No such thing as a honest rich person . right?

Why is it the poor advocate a progressive tax system? Its not doing them any favors, its actually cheating them.

Click to expand...

Under any Flat tax scamnario
The poor would pay a higher percentage of their income than the rich
And Malcolm FOrbes argument on Capital gains and Investment income is the tax has already been paid on it

A simple 10% flat tax would mean 1300 for someone who makes 13000 a year and
10000 dollars on some one who makes a 100k

Who do you think will suffer the most?
the guy with 11700 or the guy with 90k?

Munch Box:

1. To engage in cunnilingus (a play on the word "lunch box")

2. A term used to lick the vagina.

So basically you're calling yourself a.... hmm... never mind.

dukeanthony said:

Under any Flat tax scamnario
The poor would pay a higher percentage of their income than the rich
And Malcolm FOrbes argument on Capital gains and Investment income is the tax has already been paid on it

A simple 10% flat tax would mean 1300 for someone who makes 13000 a year and
10000 dollars on some one who makes a 100k

Who do you think will suffer the most?
the guy with 11700 or the guy with 90k?

Click to expand...

Who do you think will suffer the most? A guy who makes $18,000 a year and gets taxed 0% or a guy who makes nothing a year, but has capital gains in the millions of dollars per year but only pays a maximum of 15%? Almost every flat tax proposal EVER MADE has a Minimum amount of money that must be made before you even pay a tax i.e. a family of four has the first $30,000 of income exempt from tax. So in effect if you made less than that you wouldn't pay anything. If you make $50k a year you would only pay 10% on the $20k you made over the minimum. This is probably the most misconstrued part of flat tax proposals, the assumption that poor people have to pay.

Milton Friedman actually advocated a flat tax with a negative tax. I.E. a refund given to those who were under a certain threshold.

A flat tax would require a 1 page tax law, instead of the 193,000 laws we have now and the 893 different forms. You could do your taxes on a post card.