Why is there 5 "cal-mag" threads for every 1 nitrogen thread?

[churchhaze]

a lot are complete enough.

a lot are not.

If that is indeed the case, why do people keep using the ones they think are incomplete and preemptively start looking for cal-mag products? (key word there being preemptive).

It seems like the majority of people on this forum are convinced that they need a cal-mag product, and not because their formula is incomplete but because their water is incomplete (which is a ridiculous thought considering waters only expectation is to be wet)

 

[cat of curiosity]

If that is indeed the case, why do people keep using the ones they think are incomplete and preemptively start looking for cal-mag products? (key word there being preemptive).

It seems like the majority of people on this forum are convinced that they need a cal-mag product, and not because their formula is incomplete but because their water is incomplete (which is a ridiculous thought considering waters only expectation is to be wet)

i ran gh3 for (edit) 2 grows before figuring out the fucking rust spots were calcium def and didn't get a sup until late veg on the third. that was in the prior millennia. gh works for me, and adding a touch of cal and/or mag is not a big deal for me, and costs maybe 15$ a year?

i go for what i know, as i don't feel like testing two dozen more nutrient formulas.

and tap water is more than dihydrogen oxide...

 

[churchhaze]

i ran gh3 for (edit) 2 grows before figuring out the fucking rust spots were calcium def and didn't get a sup until late veg on the third. that was in the prior millennia. gh works for me, and adding a touch of cal and/or mag is not a big deal for me, and costs maybe 15$ a year?

i go for what i know, as i don't feel like testing two dozen more nutrient formulas.

and tap water is more than dihydrogen oxide...

Because you used GH3 (general hydro flora 3 part?), you had the option of adding more "micro" (aka calcium nitrate + iron EDTA). That's one of the main advantages to having a 3 part as opposed to a 2 part.

2 part formulas generally tell you to use a 1:1 ratio of A:B, and thus that's what their intended formula is.

Edit: Also keep in mind that it seems like few people even follow the suggestions from GH in the first place and instead opt for lucas formula.

 

[churchhaze]

and tap water is more than dihydrogen oxide...

You're lucky if your tap isn't hard. It's really easy and cheaper to formulate around RO. Hard water mixes generally involve replacing a lot of calcium nitrate with nitric acid, which is more expensive and more dangerous to work with. Most people here have tap water that's so soft, it may as well be called RO as far as nutrient companies are concerned.. that's why their main products aren't called "soft" while their hard have a modifier at the end..

 

[cat of curiosity]

Because you used GH3 (general hydro flora 3 part?), you had the option of adding more "micro" (aka calcium nitrate + iron EDTA). That's one of the main advantages to having a 3 part as opposed to a 2 part.

that would have increased the nitrogen as well, more so than a cal or mag product formulated as 'cal/mag'. i had increased to the point of slight burn, no help for the rust, extremely soft mountain water filtered by decomposed granite. rich in minerals, not in calcium, or as it turned out, magnesium. i NEVER said EVERYONE needs it church, and this is not my first picnic. please don't point the schooling finger at me.

Edit: Also keep in mind that it seems like few people even follow the suggestions from GH in the first place and instead opt for lucas formula.

that is true, and i've ran it as well. you just need to use 8ml per gallon cal/mag solution instead of 3-5ml per gallon. that would have been great, but yield suffered. latewood was a friend of mine, we played with it a lot (him on legal plants, me not so much). it's funny, the best results i've had with this/these products is when they are applied according to the instructions on the label. maybe a tip burn here and there, but a great end product.

if it ain't broke kinda thing, right?

 

[cat of curiosity]

You're lucky if your tap isn't hard. It's really easy and cheaper to formulate around RO. Hard water mixes generally involve replacing a lot of calcium nitrate with nitric acid, which is more expensive and more dangerous to work with. Most people here have tap water that's so soft, it may as well be called RO as far as nutrient companies are concerned.. that's why their main products aren't called "soft" while their hard have a modifier at the end..

ro was not an option at the old location. it MAY be an option here, but not until after the first of the year. sometimes you have to make due with what you have available to you, unless you just give up and don't do anything at all. better than doing nothing at all, and having nothing at all to show for it.

 

[churchhaze]

that would have increased the nitrogen

How do you think that cal-mag+ provides calcium and magnesium? They're both provided in nitrate form. Look at the ingredients on the bottle. Calcium nitrate, magnesium nitrate, and iron edta. How is that not raising N?

The bottom line is that if you're in hydro and adding Ca, you're also adding N. There's no way around it. Calcium nitrate is the only choice. The good news is that plants love N. The other good news is that calcium nitrate is very cheap.

 

[churchhaze]

Also, why does everyone assume their tap water provides an appreciable amount of Mg? Hard tap water is usually contains primarily calcium carbonate, and a disproportionately small amount of Mg. (and water, of course.. .that's why you add it, not because of it's nutritional value)

When you have hard water, calcium tends to be so high it locks out magnesium. That's why hard water formulas substitute some of the calcium nitrate they'd normally use for nitric acid.

 

[xmatox]

I also think it's genuinely rare to actually need to supplement calmag if it's already being supplied in a base nutrient. The 'because buy calmag' camp can't diagnose sh*t which is why their knee-jerk reaction is to add more calmag. It's actually complete bollocks.

My squash plants this year experienced blossom end rot which is a true calcium deficiency. I hit them twice with a couple mls/gal of calmag early in the season and BOOM I have 40 pounds of squash now with more plant mass than any indoor cannabis plant. Growers would be shocked at how little food these plants actually need to thrive.

And magnesium? The needs are so low that if it's present then it's enough.

But do what works for you.

You ever grown in coco?

 

[cat of curiosity]

How do you think that cal-mag+ provides calcium and magnesium? They're both provided in nitrate form. Look at the ingredients on the bottle. Calcium nitrate, magnesium nitrate, and iron edta. How is that not raising N?

The bottom line is that if you're in hydro and adding Ca, you're also adding N. There's no way around it. Calcium nitrate is the only choice. The good news is that plants love N. The other good news is that calcium nitrate is very cheap.

yep, and too much n will burn them and cramp your style. that's fine if you are going to defoliate, but i like keeping my solar panels on the structure... micro is 5-0-1 with other micro-nutrients than calcium and magnesium. cal/mag is 2-0-0. why would i want to add a bunch more stuff i DON'T need when i can add what i DO need? seems as simple as common sense to me, esp since calcium and magnesium are cheaper to supplement than buying more micro, which is more expensive.

Also, why does everyone assume their tap water provides an appreciable amount of Mg? Hard tap water is usually contains primarily calcium carbonate, and a disproportionately small amount of Mg. (and water, of course.. .that's why you add it, not because of it's nutritional value)

When you have hard water, calcium tends to be so high it locks out magnesium. That's why hard water formulas substitute some of the calcium nitrate they'd normally use for nitric acid.

i KNOW what's up with my tap water, i did in 2004, i do now. remember that 80's cartoon show G.I.Joe? knowing is half the battle. i appreciate you looking out and trying to prove i'm an idiot, but it isn't necessary. i am not an idiot, and i've done well with what works best for me. i hope that isn't a problem for you...

what you said about hard water and excess calcium is correct, and i agree. however, not everyone on this planet has hard water, and not everyone can install a ro filtration system and reservoir. i know that i can't at this time. i may be able to next year. sooo, i'll keep chugging along, doing what i do. it'll work for me, and i'll be happy with it.

can you be happy for me? or should i scratch everything and start over with products i'm not familiar with and have no experience using?

 

[churchhaze]

micro is 5-0-1

cal/mag is 2-0-0.

I'm not trying to imply anyone here is an idiot, but this 50lb bag costs about 30 bucks. 15.5-0-0 19% Ca

(the primary source of N and Ca in all hydro formulas.)

 

[churchhaze]

I'd also like to point out that 5-0-1 has over twice the percent by mass of N as 2-0-0. Considering that both the 2-0-0 and the 5-0-1 gets all its Ca in nitrate form, you're boasting a more diluted product for having less N simply means you like paying more money for nutrients.