churchhaze
Well-Known Member
Because buy cal-mag.
Why is there 5 "cal-mag" threads for every 1 nitrogen thread?
- Thread starter churchhaze
- Start date
cat of curiosity
Well-Known Member
and because 'canna-specific' nutes lack them on purpose.
buy me and buy more, is that not the idea?
buy me and buy more, is that not the idea?
homebrewer
Well-Known Member
But they don't. A lot of plant foods are complete enough for healthy growth and additional calcium and magnesium is unnecessary.
cat of curiosity
Well-Known Member
dandyrandy
Well-Known Member
B cause people don't read
homebrewer
Well-Known Member
I think it's rare to find a liquid food in a hydro shop that doesn't contain both calcium and magnesium.
cat of curiosity
Well-Known Member
i know it's rare to find a three part hydroponic formula that has ENOUGH calcium and magnesium for pot in a hydro application. plenty for certain garden variety plants, but not pot. and i find it funny that the hard water formulated 3 part stuff is HIGHER in cal and mag, but then i suppose they are planning on the ph swing, making cal/mag not as available for uptake.
i don't use single bottle formulas, as i like to increase or decrease to get my proper range. in hydro, at 5.8ph, cal/mag is only slightly low for gh3, and i get by adding 3-5ml per gallon. i currently have four plants under 2kw, and all are happy but one, and that one has a slight magnesium deficiency.
i guess it depends on the nutrient line, particular products used, specific genetic preference, ph, and of course, your base water supply...
that's what i think.
homebrewer
Well-Known Member
I also think it's genuinely rare to actually need to supplement calmag if it's already being supplied in a base nutrient. The 'because buy calmag' camp can't diagnose sh*t which is why their knee-jerk reaction is to add more calmag. It's actually complete bollocks.
My squash plants this year experienced blossom end rot which is a true calcium deficiency. I hit them twice with a couple mls/gal of calmag early in the season and BOOM I have 40 pounds of squash now with more plant mass than any indoor cannabis plant. Growers would be shocked at how little food these plants actually need to thrive.
And magnesium? The needs are so low that if it's present then it's enough.
But do what works for you.
Uberknot
Well-Known Member
Different needs through out life from growth to end of flower really have been reading a lot and studying on this stuff and needs. esp Mag.
Here is some advice I found.....I am going to be looking into that today. I think soil PH is very important.
K Ca and Mg are competing ions.
Balancing these elements is important. Excess amounts of any two will cause deficiency of the third. Generally you want more Ca than Mg and more K than Ca. If your pH drops too low K and Mg uptake is reduced.
Here is some advice I found.....I am going to be looking into that today. I think soil PH is very important.
K Ca and Mg are competing ions.
Balancing these elements is important. Excess amounts of any two will cause deficiency of the third. Generally you want more Ca than Mg and more K than Ca. If your pH drops too low K and Mg uptake is reduced.
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mauricem00
Well-Known Member
seems that cal/mag deficiency is a problem with LED grows which may be why the problem is more common in these threads.
Uberknot
Well-Known Member
I think it's growers understanding things more than lights.
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mauricem00
Well-Known Member
well i'm a low budget PU MMJ grower. I use MG plant food and MG bloom and never had a cal/mag problem can't imagine a plant food not having enough cal/mag unless the company is trying to sell customers a separate supplement. first started seeing questions about cal/mag from people growing with multi-band LEDs ( Mono's).
Uberknot
Well-Known Member
cat of curiosity
Well-Known Member
mg all purpose (24-8-16) is fine for dirt, and has plenty of cal/mag.Must be the dirt
it also cannot be used in hydro (for very long). so cool for the cal/mag, bad for anyone growing hydro.
maybe... i guess i haven't been growing long enough to use the ONE EXACT single bottle nutrient that EVERYONE else uses as to not need calcium or magnesium....
we do what works. maybe british water is harder than other countries? maybe british nutes are better than american, and brits don't rip people off (btw, how much is a liter of gasoline?) with multiple products designed to produce capital...
kelp is a vitamin booster some love to use, it's also high in calcium and magnesium, with some nitrogen and potassium as well.
i think you are closed minded. if cal/mag were never needed, it would not be a profitable product. i DO need it with my base nutes and well water, but the guy 30mi from here on city water doesn't... the only difference between our setups is the base water.
it is true that a lot of you don't know how to read a plant, overfeed, fuck up ph, and get a funky burned yellow plant, and people will say cal/mag. a lot of the time, the DO need calmag because they have been overfed, salts have built up in the soil, and altered ph, which is not allowing uptake of calcium or magnesium.
i think that i think better.
Uberknot
Well-Known Member
Yup starting to notice that too much light and/or ferts and you can cause a deficiency/lock out in something for sure. I actually have started a regimin of lowered lights in the beginning and then turning them up in stages and bringing it back down in a similar way.
It's all a balancing act and if one of the 3 things is F'd up things can go sideways.
Really starting to look at making up my own soil as well. Tried Coco....not happy with it.
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homebrewer
Well-Known Member
Calmag is a profitable product because it's made with raw salts and water. The markup you pay is in the hundreds of percents.
I am closed minded? I've sent reservoir samples out for analysis multiple times and I know EXACTLY how much calcium and magnesium my plants use over a week and my plants aren't special (neither are yours). I've even run side-by-sides with additional calcium and magnesium and more (when not needed) didn't do squat. FWIW, I use RO water and would be willing to bet my plants get less water soluble calcium and magnesium than yours yet I have literally never had an issue with either element.
And to your point about overfeeding causing a need for calmag? Since when is more a solution to excess?
Beginners in this hobby love to point to pH and calmag as solutions to everyone's issues when those are rarely ever the issue.
Uberknot
Well-Known Member
"I know EXACTLY how much calcium and magnesium my plants use over a week "
Oh please give a rough estimate on your Cal/Mag usages in like 4 stages?
Growth, preflower, flower, and late flower that will work!
And it will help just give a guideline as to what's possible.
cat of curiosity
Well-Known Member
overfeeding will allow buildup in the soil, raising ph, locking calcium and magnesium. so by using more, you get less. this is why you see so many ''CAL/MAG'' problems; they are due to ph lockout.
that is not the same as my situation, where my well water is high in sulfer, and low in calcium and iron. i have to add calcium (and a little magnesium) to my three part hydroponic fertilizer. not due to ph, but due to a lack of calcium in the water and the base nutrients.
i'm glad for you that all of your stuff works out, but it doesn't mean you are right about every one else being wrong for using calcium and magnesium.
by the way, calcium and magnesium additives can be purchased as powder to make concentrate, which can be used JUST like the 15$ a pint stuff. that's thousands of gallons of cal/mag for around 20$usd... so it's not like it's an expenditure...