1. We are currently experiencing issues with viewing and uploading images, our team is working on the issue.
    Dismiss Notice

Why is sulfur never a consideration?

Discussion in 'General Marijuana Growing' started by Kingrow1, Mar 30, 2016.

Tags:
  1.  
    Kingrow1

    Kingrow1 Well-Known Member

    Epson salts gave me a double negative result, it is great at relieving stress initially but if the stress isnt mag/sulp then the problems come back, i saw the same with cal mag.

    If you run into problems discontinue and look at other causes, if it dosent then sweet your good. Rarely is it a deficiency with many ferts due to the chemical bonds off different salts.

    Hope it goes well :-)
     
  2.  
    whitebb2727

    whitebb2727 Well-Known Member

    Miss you guys. Hope you guys are ok.






    Back to the subject. Dynagro gave me a small bottle of mag pro in thier sample kit. I've been using little of it and its really brought the funk out.
     
    mr. childs and Kingrow1 like this.
  3.  
    Kingrow1

    Kingrow1 Well-Known Member

    Rm3 loved Sulphur, swore by that stuff.
     
    mr. childs and whitebb2727 like this.
  4.  
    whitebb2727

    whitebb2727 Well-Known Member

    Nothing scientific. I grew a nice auto and it was stinky and on its sister I used the sulfur. Its stinks more. I also use a bit on some just going into flower and I can smell hints of road kill.
     
    mr. childs and Kingrow1 like this.
  5.  
    GreatwhiteNorth

    GreatwhiteNorth Global Moderator Staff Member

    I came to the same conclusion a couple of years ago - I'm organic & used to obsess to the extreme on PH down to a 10'th of a point - I finally got lazy & decided that a point or so was not worth dealing with & my grow's got better and took way less time dealing with.

    Organic, tap water & fabulous buds - can it get any better than that?
     
    Wilderb, mr. childs, nmibud and 4 others like this.
  6.  
    Kingrow1

    Kingrow1 Well-Known Member

    Yer i guess ive come full circle with growing, not much more to add, it really was that simple.


    Thinking of going back to neebie and problem forum, maybe a journal too. Hung here for so long theres nothing left to say and standards are so high theres little debate on these subjects.





    2018-01-23 05.33.53.jpg
     
  7.  
    Yodaweed

    Yodaweed Well-Known Member

    Get some sul-po-mag bro....super important to quality harvests.
     
    mr. childs likes this.
  8.  
    HydroLynx

    HydroLynx Member

    I have been busy reviewing some literature since I reactivated this thread, as I've been desperately yearning for mj data, not just mint or tomatoes lol. Thought I'd share what I've just learnt.

    Here are sampled plant-tissue data (from Advanced Nutrients) in the form of a nice graph. Nutrient levels (except N) are sampled weekly over the whole growing period.

    upload_2018-1-28_12-22-29.png

    Fig1: White Rhino



    upload_2018-1-28_12-31-17.png

    Fig 2: Berlin



    upload_2018-1-28_12-31-54.png

    Fig 3: HashBud



    Note how sulfur levels are more or less half that of magnesium.

    AND the potassium assimilation during flower!! I always hear "P this P that", yeah true, but potassium (by weight) seems 2-3 times more important for bud development (and also important for juicy sticky 'secondary metabolites', based on studies done on various other plants).
     
  9.  
    MichiganMedGrower

    MichiganMedGrower Well-Known Member



    This is an interview with the president of dyna grow explaining test results of cannabis nutrient content.

    It shows like the above graphs. But with much more detail.

    He admits that he produced the bloom bottle due to customer demand not plant needs. And does not recomend the mag pro either.

    If a grower adds sulfur and notices an improvement either there wasn’t enough available to the plant beforehand or it is just the growers imagination. We want to believe what we are investing in is working. It is human nature.

    Sulfur is not needed more than it is needed for plant growth and processes. Extra can not be used by the plant. Just accumulated and stored. Like all the other excesses we force into our plants. And too much will quickly lock out other elements.
     
  10.  
    MichiganMedGrower

    MichiganMedGrower Well-Known Member


    Why no Nitrogen content? It’s the most telling part. I linked more info from dyna grow above.
     
    boilingoil likes this.
  11.  
    thumper60

    thumper60 Well-Known Member

    wasn't that the dude who poured boiling water on his roots lol
     
  12.  
    Philip-O

    Philip-O Well-Known Member

    @greasemonkeymann @Kingrow1 @GreatwhiteNorth You probably have discussed this elsewhere, but would you mind sharing your soil recipes? It would be interesting to see your ratios and ammendments.

    I´m beginning my second ammended soil run, and have found the plants to show deficiencies if I don´t keep feeding them (megacrop / fish hydrolisate). The first run looked better than the second, and the enviroment is not bad (other than overall low temperatures, about 20-22 centigrade) so I´m very likely to be missing something in the soil and feeding.

    I use a mix of about 1:1:1 peat, humus, and/or perlite/rice hulls, ammended with:

    a. About 3 cups per cubic foot of neem meal, crab meal, kelp meal and a bit of alfalfa meal.
    b. 2-3 cups of rock dusts.
    c. 2 cups of a 1:2 gypsum : oyster shell powder mixture.​

    Where are the sulfur and magnesium supposed to come from?
     
    mr. childs likes this.
  13.  
    HydroLynx

    HydroLynx Member

    First took me a few days to understand "Kjeldahl Total Nitrogen" analysis well enough to report on it. I don't want to post rubbish (like so many on the internet do). Here we go:


    upload_2018-2-2_12-11-59.png

    White Rhino



    upload_2018-2-2_12-12-44.png

    Berlin



    upload_2018-2-2_12-12-58.png

    HB

    Note: all my graphs are in terms of P as P, not P2O5 (44% actual P). Also K as K, not K2O (86% actual K).


    Plants clearly do take up N during flower, but K's absolute (total quantity of nutes taken into plants) and rate of uptake (graph's slope) is much greater (this we know). P has greater slope than N during flower--but not total absolute uptake! (shock horror) So from this I suggest balancing your NPK ratios such that your plants take up their nutes at a similar rate to this. If the line slope is not that steep, then one can infer that the added nutrient levels do drop enough such that plant uptake slope only rises "passively"--also helps to read up on which nutes are taken up and at what speed. Much more info in these graphs.

    Another interesting point are the Veg N:K ratios. Lore dictates more N than K for Veg, but this is only slightly confirmed from the graphs, perhaps because in theory lower light levels required a lower N:K ratio at veg. For Berlin, as the plant grows at veg and during 12/12 veg stretch, the rate of K and N uptake is the same, while HB the veg stretch demands more K than N, while White Rhino is the exception with a higher N:K ratio at veg and 12/12 growth stretch.
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2018
  14.  
    Dr. Who

    Dr. Who Well-Known Member

    If you do your own compounding of nutrients.
    I tend to feel you wouldn't have any S problem. That is that most micro metals are supplied in the form of sulfates.
    If you supplement K, use K sulfate!
    Same for Mag.
    Mn,Cu, and others are delivered in sulfate forms.

    Look at BIO AG's TM 7 (I'll be re-posting in a thread about supplementing that in the advanced section soon). The 2% sulfur in that is from the other micro's being used, are in the sulfate form...

    Like I've said. It's a reoccurring debate to make S a macro nutrient by plant scientists....
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2018
  15.  
    MichiganMedGrower

    MichiganMedGrower Well-Known Member

    Have mentioned before that the company that produces pro mix has excellent up to date info on plant science and crop production.

    Suffer is needed at an average of 25ppm. If in sulfates 75ppm. There is no debate about its function in plant science @Dr. Who it is needed at those amounts or nitrogen uptake is compromised first.

    It is considered a second tier nutrient like calcium and magnesium.

    https://www.pthorticulture.com/en/training-center/role-of-sulfur-in-plant-culture/

    Also it seems botanicare had the pot ratio closest years ago with pure Blend Pro Grow all along at 3-2-4. Should be 3-1-4 with balanced micros but P is an easily locked up nute and I think that is why they tell us to over use it in bloom. About half way through bloom in container gardens and outdoor soil even the p and then k becomes more difficult for the plant to uptake depending on conditions.

    Ch9 never became as popular as some of the big boys but has experience from the start of medical production in California. They produced a 1 part pot nutrient that never took off but I thought I would share the info here.

    The composition supports the above nutrient graphs. 12-9-34 +3mg + micros.

    Would need calcium added if no calcium source provided.

    Packaging in Spanish Only.

    A2F9C780-F26A-46C7-BB94-2B1267D8C293.jpeg BA30BAC2-99A4-4FB6-9472-CB747254B405.jpeg A3771C62-8232-491D-BBD4-5A000F632DA8.jpeg
     
    mr. childs and Dr. Who like this.
  16.  
    Dr. Who

    Dr. Who Well-Known Member

    Interesting formulation on the package. So how has that been working for you? I'm intrigued.

    Far to many nutrient lines way overdue P in bloom. Hell, I cut my K way, way back the last 2-3 (more like 3) weeks. N has to be not over done at any point, and many have it too low for the first 2-3 weeks, contributing to those "P" problems in early to mid bloom also.

    I re-opened that Micro manipulation thread in the Adv. section, take a peek man..

    Your quite right about no "functional" debate on S too!

    Nice post sir!
     
    chiqifella and MichiganMedGrower like this.
  17.  
    ANC

    ANC Well-Known Member

    Magnesium is a hit and miss thing for me.
    Decided to just fuckit and grow like I always did before I knew about magnesium.
    Never really an issue unless it gets very hot.

    You can differentiate between nitrogen and sulphur deficiencies in that it has an all over paler appearance in Nitrogen def VS just the new growth is S.
    Nitrogen def leaves also tend to be smaller.
     
    mr. childs and MichiganMedGrower like this.
  18.  
    MichiganMedGrower

    MichiganMedGrower Well-Known Member


    Thanks.

    I don’t use easy pistils for 2 reasons. It contains no calcium and I would need to add some with my soft water and it’s not available anymore.

    I just posted to show that it was formulated the way the AN and dyna Grow info showed in the leaf content info.

    And I saw that you posted bio ag already sells a good micro mix. I am not surprised. Tomatoes and other crops need similar elements in similar balances for best results.

    Pretty sure pure Blend Pro is a dutch indoor tomato formula.

    It’s funny you cut your k back during ripening. I show k stress a bit around the leaf edges and tips past the half way point and that’s when I start cutting back on nutrient strength.

    And maybe the real reason for flushing is to get the excess pk we force in there for no reason to wash back out and unblock the poor roots?
     
    Dr. Who and boilingoil like this.
  19.  
    MichiganMedGrower

    MichiganMedGrower Well-Known Member


    To add to this new pale growth is often iron deficiency. And nitrogen will always start fading from the oldest growth as it is highly mobile in the plant.

    Since you brought up mag I wanted to say that the fast positive results seen from cal mag are not usually from the magnesium but the cheleated iron greening up the leaves.
     
  20.  
    ANC

    ANC Well-Known Member

    I feed chelated iron via foliar application anyway.
     
    MichiganMedGrower likes this.

Share This Page